Gnostic Atheism

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Thought I would throw this one in:

Is it important not to believe in God? If so - why?
 
minkymurph said:
Thought I would throw this one in:

Is it important not to believe in God? If so - why?
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To expand on this:

I have not seen extent blogs, books, comments in media, protests etc. etc. there are no -
(see list below) to anything like the same extent there is no God.

Devil - I mention the devil as to me this is lot scarier than God and a much worse ‘lie’ to tell children.

Angels. The reason I mention angels is believe in angels took off for a while not attached to a belief in God and no one was freaked out by it.

Santa Claus - no protests about taking children to Lapland and sale of big fat guys in beards who sneak into your house with presents.

Witches, zombies, unicorns, leprechauns, fairies, ghosts, demons, a belief in immortality nothing to do with God, - I could go on but I would say those reading this post have got the drift by now.

If I professed a belief in any of the above or turned Wicca people would think it funny and leave me to get on with it. Admittedly it’s unlikely I would be permitted to teach such things in schools as fact so I’ll give atheist’s that one, but I reiterate my comments about the Devil.

Thus, why God? Why is there is no God written about, commented upon and vehemently opposed so extensively by comparison to anything else that is equally believed to be a ‘lie?’
 
On a final note - I am thinking of starting a campaign we should not believe anything politicians say as I know for certain they don’t tell the truth and can prove it.

Anyone want to join?
 
STT said:
Was it possible that everybody just does good in a hypothetical universe? If not God is responsible for evil because He knew the outcome.
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It’s possible that everybody does good in this universe.

Knowing an outcome is not the same as directly willing it. It’s God’s will that we do good, not evil. But we freely choose to do evil. If God forced you to do good, you would complain about being forced and having no choice. God allows you to choose good or evil. From that, you’d blame God for your own choices?
 
STT said:
Was it possible that everybody just does good in a hypothetical universe?
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It is. And we had it for a while. See Genesis 1-2.
If not God is responsible for evil because He knew the outcome.
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This is an immature conception of knowledge and foreknowledge.

God is in the Eternal Now. All things are happening to God at this present moment.
 
Vera_Ljuba said:
But rejecting God does not logically entail that one should be free to hurt other beings.
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If we direct ourselves to the greatest good, we do good for ourself - and thus do good for other human beings. To withdraw ourself, or even reject the greatest good, is to harm ourself. In harming ourself, we hurt other human beings.
Our moral failings contribute to evil in the world. By emulating God, the most perfect Good, we overcome moral failings and remove evil.
That is only your definition. I know that you (in plural) love to define things into existence, but that is nonsense.
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Of course, that’s not only my personal definition. The attributes of God in Western Theism have been well established since Aristotle and before then - and going back to the Hebrew Scriptures there is a root for all the metaphysic that came later.

So, to say that by definition God is the perfection of good and fullness of being is not a personal opinion or something new.

I mean, you can’t have it both ways. You’re on a Catholic site, arguing with Catholics about God. If you have a different definition of who God is, then you could explain that. In Catholicism God is defined via a number of attributes and that’s one way we have to discuss who God is. It’s the First Cause argument and the impossibility of an infinite regress - so, it’s logical.

If you’re saying that “God doesn’t exist so there’s no Being to talk about” - well where did you come up with the Justice and Mercy thing you’re stuck on?

Again, you can’t have it both ways. Either you accept our, or some definition of God (if it’s not ours you need to offer your definition, attributes, principles, etc.), or when I say “God is, by definition …” you have to accept that for the sake of the argument.

God is the perfection of Goodness because he is the fullness of Being. There is no perfection lacking in Him because if there was, how would it occur? A lack of perfection would be a potential for improvement. But in an infinite being, timeless - there can be no opportunity left for improving. Plus, there could be nothing greater than God to provide the improvement. If there was something greater than God, then that thing would be God. That would continue infinitely - thus an infinite regress which is illogical.
Eventually, we must have a First Cause of Being. And that First Cause must possess the Fullness of Being, because there could be no additional Being beyond it - and where there is a fullness, there is no lack. Where there is no lack there is no evil. Where there is no evil, there is the fullness of Good…
 
reggieM said:
It’s possible that everybody does good in this universe.
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Why then God didn’t create such a universe knowing the fact that it was possible?
reggieM said:
Knowing an outcome is not the same as directly willing it. It’s God’s will that we do good, not evil. But we freely choose to do evil. If God forced you to do good, you would complain about being forced and having no choice. God allows you to choose good or evil. From that, you’d blame God for your own choices?
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No, I blame God for not creating the universe that people always do good. That is a possibility. Instead He chose to create a universe where people do evil.
 
STT said:
Why then God didn’t create such a universe knowing the fact that it was possible?

No, I blame God for not creating the universe that people always do good. That is a possibility. Instead He chose to create a universe where people do evil.
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I wouldn’t have it any other way. How could you distinguish good an evil if there was no such thing as evil? How could there even be such a thing as good without the presence of evil?
 
STT said:
Why then God didn’t create such a universe knowing the fact that it was possible?
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God did create that universe - it is this one. You asked why God didn’t create a universe where it was possible that everybody does good.
It’s possible that everybody does good in this universe.
No, I blame God for not creating the universe that people always do good.
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Do you blame God that you do not do good?
That is a possibility. Instead He chose to create a universe where people do evil.
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He created a universe where people like you can choose to do evil or good.
So, why do you choose to do evil? Do you blame God for your moral failings?
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
I wouldn’t have it any other way. How could you distinguish good an evil if there was no such thing as evil? How could there even be such a thing as good without the presence of evil?
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We are not talking about distinguishing evil but performing evil.
 
Ignorance is an evil. Overcoming ignorance is the process of learning and discovering.
So, if there was no evil (defects or lacking something) there would be no opportunity for learning. The same is true for growth in strength, wisdom, virtue. We have the opportunity to improve and overcome evil.

When we overcome our own moral failings, we have a chance to improve reality.
God gives us that chance - it’s an adventure. But the price is the possibility for evil.
 
STT said:
We are not talking about distinguishing evil but performing evil.
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Evil exists because people choose to perform it. Once it is performed, it then exists and we distinguish it.
 
reggieM said:
God did create that universe - it is this one. You asked why God didn’t create a universe where it was possible that everybody does good.
It’s possible that everybody does good in this universe.
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No, God didn’t create the good universe instead he created a universe that some people do evil.
reggieM said:
Do you blame God that you do not do good?
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No, I blame God for not creating the good universe.
reggieM said:
He created a universe where people like you can choose to do evil or good.
So, why do you choose to do evil? Do you blame God for your moral failings?
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I am saying that a universe that all people do good is a possible universe. It is up to God to create that universe or another one which people perform evil.
 
PRmerger said:
It is. And we had it for a while. See Genesis 1-2.

This is an immature conception of knowledge and foreknowledge.

God is in the Eternal Now. All things are happening to God at this present moment.
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I am talking about a universe that people always do good.
 
STT said:
How people can choose evil in first place if they could not distinguish it?
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That’s what the Tree was for in the Garden.

"With this imagery, Revelation teaches that the power to decide what is good and what is evil does not belong to man, but to God alone. "–Veritatis Splendor
 
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