Gnostic Atheism

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STT said:
How people can choose evil in first place if they could not distinguish it?
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They could do evil because there was evil in the world. If there was no evil in the world they could not choose evil. Satan was in the world.
 
minkymurph said:
To expand on this:

I have not seen extent blogs, books, comments in media, protests etc. etc. there are no -
(see list below) to anything like the same extent there is no God.

Devil - I mention the devil as to me this is lot scarier than God and a much worse ‘lie’ to tell children.

Angels. The reason I mention angels is believe in angels took off for a while not attached to a belief in God and no one was freaked out by it.

Santa Claus - no protests about taking children to Lapland and sale of big fat guys in beards who sneak into your house with presents.

Witches, zombies, unicorns, leprechauns, fairies, ghosts, demons, a belief in immortality nothing to do with God, - I could go on but I would say those reading this post have got the drift by now.

If I professed a belief in any of the above or turned Wicca people would think it funny and leave me to get on with it. Admittedly it’s unlikely I would be permitted to teach such things in schools as fact so I’ll give atheist’s that one, but I reiterate my comments about the Devil.

Thus, why God? Why is there is no God written about, commented upon and vehemently opposed so extensively by comparison to anything else that is equally believed to be a ‘lie?’
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No one has ever said that I deserve to be (and will be) tortured forever for not believing in unicorns.
No one has ever said that I can’t effectively ground my ethics without a belief in unicorns or has implied that I am untrustworthy and likely to commit acts of theft, murder, or rape because of it.
No one has ever said that I can never be a good husband or father because I don’t believe in unicorns.
No one has ever tried to use the death of a loved one as a means to attempt to emotionally manipulate me into believing in unicorns.
No one has ever said that people who don’t believe in unicorns aren’t real Americans, can’t be real patriots, can’t hold public office, or that our presence will doom the nation.
No one has ever blamed earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, and more on an increase of people who don’t believe in unicorns.
No part of the word is currently engulfed in decades-long violence due to people believing opposing things about unicorns.
No one has ever challenged me to explain the origin of the universe or of life since I can’t explain it through unicorn magic. No one is trying to have the unicorn theory of creating taught in public schools.
No one is actively trying to deny another group’s civil rights because they believe it’s the will of the unicorns.

But if we’re talking about God instead of unicorns, yeah, all that stuff and more.

Simply put, belief if God is not only more common than belief in all the other things you listed, it’s also more consequential.
 
I appreciate your perspectives on that, KnowtheSilence.
Yes, God is an important foundation for our society and our thinking in general.
Thus, the kind of backlash and conflict that you’ve obviously experienced.
I think minky was reflecting on what might seem a disproportionate reaction.
In other words, “If you really believed that God was an imaginary being, then you should just ignore it”.
But clearly, there are societal pressures that force a person to go along with belief in God and then have to be open about their non-belief. The reactions to that, from a society where belief in God is taken for granted, is as you described.
 
PRmerger said:
Then you are talking about a universe where there are robots.

Free will trumps everything here, STT.
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That is not correct. The number of universes that we could do different things is infinite therefore it is possible to find universe that people always do good.
 
PRmerger said:
That’s what the Tree was for in the Garden.

"With this imagery, Revelation teaches that the power to decide what is good and what is evil does not belong to man, but to God alone. "–Veritatis Splendor
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Decide? I thought it is matter being objectively wrong or right.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
They could do evil because there was evil in the world. If there was no evil in the world they could not choose evil. Satan was in the world.
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You cannot resolve the problem of evil that way. How Satan then perform evil? There was no evil before him.
 
STT said:
I am not sure if there is any God. But I would be thankful if life is meaningful.
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That is a good attitude to take STT - as I see it.
As you seek to understand God, you can find that meaning also – and then find good reasons to be thankful.

Yes, there is a God. And he designed the universe so that we could seek and discover Him – and gradually learn more and more about Him in life. That is part of the journey and adventure we are on.
Otherwise, we wouldn’t need to learn or struggle or fight for what is good.
 
STT said:
In a way that is not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.
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Ok, yes true. But from God’s perspective he established morality for human beings. He created the universe by His choice - not because He was forced to do it.
His choice to create was because of love - love for the human beings He created.
 
reggieM said:
Ok, yes true. But from God’s perspective he established morality for human beings. He created the universe by His choice - not because He was forced to do it.
His choice to create was because of love - love for the human beings He created.
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God cannot decide and establish morality for human beings. The moral laws are objective from God point of view, neither He can go against them nor can allow them.
 
STT said:
God cannot decide and establish morality for human beings. The moral laws are objective from God point of view, neither He can go against them nor can allow them.
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In the free act of creating human beings, God decided and established what morality is for them.

For example, God created beings that join together to procreate. He could have created beings that self-replicated. But he didn’t. Once he had those kinds of beings, He established moral norms surrounding marriage. But he chose those morals. They are universal in human society, but they were chosen and created by God.

Morals could not exist objectively - outside of God. Except for the fact that every good thing comes from God and all morals are directed to making people grow in goodness, and thus become more like God their creator.
 
reggieM said:
In the free act of creating human beings, God decided and established what morality is for them.

For example, God created beings that join together to procreate. He could have created beings that self-replicated. But he didn’t. Once he had those kinds of beings, He established moral norms surrounding marriage. But he chose those morals. They are universal in human society, but they were chosen and created by God.

Morals could not exist objectively - outside of God. Except for the fact that every good thing comes from God and all morals are directed to making people grow in goodness, and thus become more like God their creator.
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I understand what you are trying to say but I still think that moral laws are objective from God point of view.
 
STT said:
I understand what you are trying to say but I still think that moral laws are objective from God point of view.
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Ok, the thing that is objective from God’s point of view is Himself. He is the perfection of all good actions.
 
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