Gnosticism: The True Traditional Catholicism

[Hesychios]

A bit of a theory I’ve been inspired with is the possibility of an ecumenical dialogue between the Gnostic Church and the Roman Catholic Church, that could unite countless Christians by restoring Christianity to Her truest root - Gnosticism. So as to not write too much here are the basic points:

• Gnosticism is the True Catholicism
• Jesus is the Christ
• Mary is the Sophia
• God is universal
• “Vatican Councils” and others cannot bring weight down upon Christianity, because Christ did not institute Councils to decree Christian Faith, but individual Apostolic Succession
• Therefore, it follows that the Pope is NOT infallible, and that simply because something is declared a Dogma of the Faith, does not make it Catholic
• Due to the Gnosticism of True Catholicism, Christ rejects the hateful judge of the Old Testament and declares that the True God who fulfills the Law is a God of Love and the only sin lies in this Mystery
• The Pope is the Successor of St. Peter and unity of the Church, it’s influential leader, but no more
• Acceptance of all branches of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church into union considering their acceptance of this Holy Catholic teaching
• Restoration of the full Tridentine Mass, the Mass of All Time, with indults for other Masses to be granted by local Bishops

Rubbish…sorry, it’s all in your head.

 

[Keikiolu]

I’ve reverted many times because I was frustrated as a Catholic, and explored other faiths and spiritualities, and many times went back to Catholicism only to be frustrated again. It gets to a point where you just give up and move on. Attachment like that isn’t healthy, especially spiritually.

Your problem, Jon, is that you’re trying to FORCE what you know is the true religion to conform to YOUR needs, instead of conforming to it’s necessities.

I would suggest this as a “legitimate” way to “leave” your “old religion” (Catholicism apparently) to “move on” to Gnosticism:

*) Explain to yourself how, specifically, gnosticism was determined to be heretical from the viewpoint of the Church.

*) Then, see if you agree that the Church is correct, using their logic, in that determination. (ie Can you agree that they can logically believe as they do?)

*) Then, see if you still agree with the principles of gnosticism.

If you can REALLY see how the Church can legitimately have it’s point of view, and still believe in gnosticism, then you are completely “justified” in your beliefs in gnosticism.

I’m not saying that you’re “correct” in your belief in gnosticism. Just that you know why the difference between the Church and gnosticism exists, and have chosen according to your needs.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[East_and_West]

I honestly don’t have too much except the Gnostic Gospels, which I feel are authentic, the Scriptures that are in use by the mainstream Church today, and the dogmas of the Catholic Church.

For instance, Christ obviously conferred a special authority on St. Peter in the famous verse where He declares that upon St. Peter the Rock He will build His Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against Her, but there is not authority conferred on Councils to later declare that the Successor is infallible.

This is the first step in refuting modern Catholic teaching. By the way, I don’t mean to offend anyone. I’m just throwing ideas around and know full-well that nothing is going to change me or anyone else on this forum. Anyhow, this would be the first step in breaking dogmaticism.

With the breaking of dogmaticism, Gnostic ideas could flood the Church as people opened up their hearts to a more spiritual view of Christianity, which they would feel sympathized more with them and resonated with humanity universally.

The restoration of the Tridentine Latin Mass would serve to unite the Church further, and because of it’s dual esoteric and exoteric value. It would show that in the Fullness of the Church esoteric and exoteric and all things are reconciled in the Light of Christ’s Divine Institution.

Dude, the Gnostic gospels were written in the second century by people who didn’t even know Christ. The cannonical Gospels were written in the first century by the Apostles and their associates.

 

[Keikiolu]

Because this truth always makes me feel miserable and makes life dull, and a tremendous burden.

Then, as someone once said about “bad sex”,… “Then you’re not doing it right…!”



Seriously,… if it’s truth, and not just “a truth”, which is a term of relativism, which is evil, then it’s not the truth that is causing the “misery”,… it’s your trying to “get around” the truth.

To try to get around truth, by finding a “competing truth” (gnosticism) is the very definition of idolatry.

The question is why your “desires” conflict with reality, such that reality (the [singular] truth) causes you misery?

Please listen to mrteachersir,… as there is huge wisdom there.

Good luck on your journey, Jon.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau **na pomaikai **ia oe. Aloha nui.

(( …accent on the BLESSINGS, which you need to allow in. ))

 

[Keikiolu]

I spoke to Nagoda on MSN, and he told me about how God IS Love, and so many other things, and that is what I am offending and denying. He’s right. I’ve prayed for forgiveness and will be going to Confession on Saturday. Also, that evil is the absence of God and that God isn’t filled with wrath. I noted that the worst thing that could happen to us is to lose God, even a teenie bit of God, and that was as far as God’s “wrath” goes - that when we deny Him, He respects our free will. Please pray for me.

PING…!!!
We have a winner…!! :extrahappy:

All the Angels and Saints and those of us who know about this are skipping and jumping with joy…!!

Alleluia alleluia alleluia…

Wow,… I wouldn’t have thought that something like this would make my day, but,… Woof…!!

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[parvenu74]

I spoke to Nagoda on MSN, and he told me about how God IS Love, and so many other things, and that is what I am offending and denying. He’s right. I’ve prayed for forgiveness and will be going to Confession on Saturday. Also, that evil is the absence of God and that God isn’t filled with wrath. I noted that the worst thing that could happen to us is to lose God, even a teenie bit of God, and that was as far as God’s “wrath” goes - that when we deny Him, He respects our free will. Please pray for me.

Be assured of the prayers of my wife and I!

 

[thecoach]

Since you believe in Gnosticism…which has nothing to do with christianity and the Roman Catholic Church…I would suggest going to their forum and not come here and insult our faith with your heretical views… I take this as an attack on the Holy Roman Church and the Sacrament of Christ instituted at the Last Supper. Are you trolling here…think you’re cute, bad…

with all due respect, why that reaction? what are you afraid of? is YOUR faith so shallow that you have to be in fear of dialugue, and just resort to insults? Is that response the best Catholicism can offer?

 

[thecoach]

“Called” and “chosen” are words that Calvin used to spew his heresy of pre-destination. God calls on all of us to turn to Him…but its our choice to be chosen. Your system is no better. According to your world-view, those who don’t have the “inside-scoop” will not be saved. So, if 1/3th of the world’s population is Christian, 1/6 Muslim, and about 1/15th (if that) gnostic, then only 1/15th of the world’s population will be saved. That seems to be a bit harsher than Revelations claim that the number who enter Heaven will be beyond count.

Even assuming that reincarnation will eventually “save” the rest, the current maladies of a culture of death will all but quickly ensure that the rest of us miserable ignoramuses will perish without the “inside-scoop” at one point in our depressing lives.

I still find it interesting that Gnosticism grew out of the pagan Greeks, and you are attempting to reconcile it with Christianity.

wouldnt be the first time in Church history sometihng from the pagan Greeks was reconciled with Christianity, remember Aquinas?

 

[thecoach]

Dude, the Gnostic gospels were written in the second century by people who didn’t even know Christ. The cannonical Gospels were written in the first century by the Apostles and their associates.

not entirely accurate

 

[HenryV]

I guess I’m trying to imagine the Church before the First Vatican Council, during the period of the Apostles. Before all the dogmas that were developed throughout the centuries.

The Catholic Faith is the same now as it was when Christ, the Truth, first revealed it to His Apostles.

Gnosticism is another religion.

 

[palmas85]

with all due respect, why that reaction? what are you afraid of? is YOUR faith so shallow that you have to be in fear of dialugue, and just resort to insults? Is that response the best Catholicism can offer?

Not all Gnostic sects were Christian in nature. Some held to a few basic Christian beliefs, but not all by any means. Many did not accept any basic Christian doctrines at all. More than a few modern scholars now believe that Gnosticism in fact pre dated Christianity and merely absorbed some Christian elements as they became more and more prevalent. I happen to believe that myself.

What better way to keep a religion or philosophy alive ie: Gnosticism or to create a religion all of your own, ie: Islam or the Mormans, than to incorporate certain aspects of the true faith into it? That way the adherents can always claim that THEY are the ones who truly understand what the faith is all about and not the other way around.

I do believe that the Gnostic sects that did incorporate Christian elements into their philosophy were in fact rightly declared to be heretical. I have seen no evidence to the contrary.

 

[thecoach]

Not all Gnostic sects were Christian in nature. Some held to a few basic Christian beliefs, but not all by any means. Many did not accept any basic Christian doctrines at all. More than a few modern scholars now believe that Gnosticism in fact pre dated Christianity and merely absorbed some Christian elements as they became more and more prevalent. I happen to believe that myself.

What better way to keep a religion or philosophy alive ie: Gnosticism or to create a religion all of your own, ie: Islam or the Mormans, than to incorporate certain aspects of the true faith into it? That way the adherents can always claim that THEY are the ones who truly understand what the faith is all about and not the other way around.

I do believe that the Gnostic sects that did incorporate Christian elements into their philosophy were in fact rightly declared to be heretical. I have seen no evidence to the contrary.

fine, but what does that have to do with my quote? the reaction was uncalled for.

 

[Jedinovice]

I shouldn’t drop in here ecause I;m hopelessly busy and about to go out to Indonesia to get married but…

  Because this truth always makes me feel miserable and makes life dull, and 
  a tremendous burden.

This line says a lot! More than you realise.

I’ll let you into a ‘secret.’ When people are unhappy in themselves the psyche plays a ‘trick’ on you. It shifts the feeling that you are bad onto something else. The psyche tries to say “I feel bad, therefore it is THIS that is making me feel bad and, thus, THIS is wrong.” But the reality is that something inside you is wrong and something is TRIGGERING that feeling.

Apply this to the church. The Church is acting as a trigger for bad feelings of guilt, no, shame you ALREADY FEEL! It’s not the Church causing the feelings, they are already there. If you wander away from the Church you carry the feelings with you. At first you feel better but then you hit another trigger the way someone looks at you, a poster, even your face in the mirror.

Bang! guilt, shame, terror again!

You never find peace because the cause of the problem is never tackled. The fact that you are running into weird, esoteric, ‘soft’ ‘spirituality’ that, in effect, negates the existence of sin shows me how desperately you are running.

It’s OK. Lots of people have been there. I’ve been there. But I faced my fears (loooonnng story!) I got through.

You are feeling SHAME in the Church. Shame is the feeling “I am a bad person.” This is distinct from guilt which says “I am a good person but I have done something bad.” Shame is very destructive. Guilt can be redeeming. You’ve got the two confused. You see the church condemning you and saying you are ‘evil’ because you already feel you are condemned and a bad person. You have a ‘tear’ in your soul that is getting bigger. Again, I’ve been there. I can assure you that gnosticism will only lead to egotism and make things far, far worse.

The resolution? Well, a lot of things. First - talk to a priest about your feelings. Don’t just go to confession, talk your feelings out! Next, find a good Christian counsellor and work through the shame. It’s painful but it changes you. Match your work with a counsellor with prayer and dig in. The process of healing, letting go, opening up and letting God LOVE you takes time. Most people quit to find and easy answer but there is no easy way through pain. But, in acing it, in finding WHY you feel such shame, releases you and then no man can condemn you.

You can find peace. You can find love, forgiveness, hope, redemption. Honest you can. I tell you, Gnosticism or any other ‘quick fix’ is just a deception and will screw you into a little ball and your own private hell. You can trust me on this! Get your pain sorted out then you will understand. First rid the pain and then you will be able to feel love and forgiveness. Running to a (so called) ‘softer’ religion of dubious background will only delay the inevitable break down. Take this from a guy who had two nervous breakdowns. I faced my pain, worked through it, am getting married, am in a great Christian community of lovely people, I am at peace with myself, in a good job and feeling blessed!

Take it from me - seriously - you’re approaching the problem of your feelings the wrong way. See a Christian professional and work through stuff with prayer. (I say Christian because a secular counsellor will try and cure you of religion!) There is no shame in it - indeed, you will remove the sense of shame. Put theology on one side for the moment and come back to it when you feel better. Then you’ll see.

 

[palmas85]

fine, but what does that have to do with my quote? the reaction was uncalled for.

The reaction may have been extreme, but understandable given the gravity of the issues raised in the conversation.

Since Gnosticism generally calls into question the basic beliefs of mainline Christianity, and always did by the way, strong reactions to it are understandable and usually expected. The early Church fathers feared Gnosticism more than just about any other threat and with good reason.

Since Gnosticism appeals to the lonliness and feelings of displacement and abandonment that we all feel from time to time as well as that kind of universal feeling of not belonging here, it can easily tempt those who are not firm in their religious beliefs. It does offer a degree of solace to them that perhaps other religions does not. And since it places secret knowledge as being necessary to be freed from the physical realm, those who attain the knowledge can feel as if they are spiritually advanced as it were.

Many of the early writings in fact addressed this very issue, where the Gnostics were not seen as being an outside threat, but an interior one, They worshipped with everyone else, received the sacraments with everyone else and appeared on the surface to be normal. But it was their belief that they and they alone had the true knowledge of what the sacraments really were and that they alone possessed the keys to salvation that made them so dangerous to Christianity as a whole…

 

[johnotc]

Jonathan, you said:

I mean that in my view as a Catholic most people weren’t able to be reconciled with God and this bothered me. It seemed to me that most people had in some indirect way rejected God and therefore were condemned to an eternity of suffering.

Let me tell you that reconciliation with God is an act of the will. In some instances, the act of willfully agreeing with God is difficult–because of original sin and one’s past exeriences.

Gnosticism cannot be reconciled with the message of Jesus. You are exposing yourself to undue harm by “believing in your heart” that it is the true faith. God made you in His image–gnosticism says otherwise. It is as simple as that.

I think that you are a very well meaning person to suggest that gnosticism is a better, maybe more accessible way to God. However, it does not lead you to God at all–or at least the God that we know in the Catholic Church. I will pray for you brother and hope the Holy Spirit redirect your efforts–we need you in Jesus’ Real Church.

 

[larryo]

You are a heretic. I suggest you read *Against Heresies written *by St. Irenaeus of Lyons in the second century. I also suggest you develop a sense of respect for two thousand years of consistent Church teaching on doctrine and morality. If you are truly sincere in your unfounded assertions, you are sorely misguided and in grave spiritual danger. Pray for humility and the true enlightenment that comes with unconditionally accepting the eternal truths taught by the Catholic Church founded by Jesus Chris, who is The Truth…

 

[cafengocmy]

A bit of a theory I’ve been inspired with is the possibility of an ecumenical dialogue between the Gnostic Church and the Roman Catholic Church, that could unite countless Christians by restoring Christianity to Her truest root - Gnosticism. So as to not write too much here are the basic points:

• Gnosticism is the True Catholicism
• Jesus is the Christ
• Mary is the Sophia
• God is universal
• “Vatican Councils” and others cannot bring weight down upon Christianity, because Christ did not institute Councils to decree Christian Faith, but individual Apostolic Succession
• Therefore, it follows that the Pope is NOT infallible, and that simply because something is declared a Dogma of the Faith, does not make it Catholic
• Due to the Gnosticism of True Catholicism, Christ rejects the hateful judge of the Old Testament and declares that the True God who fulfills the Law is a God of Love and the only sin lies in this Mystery
• The Pope is the Successor of St. Peter and unity of the Church, it’s influential leader, but no more
• Acceptance of all branches of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church into union considering their acceptance of this Holy Catholic teaching
• Restoration of the full Tridentine Mass, the Mass of All Time, with indults for other Masses to be granted by local Bishops

Gnosticism didn’t even come up until a couple of centuries after the Crucifixion. It is not any sort of Catholicism. It is Christianity only in that it uses some of the same names that actual Christians use.

 

[Chancellare]

As a former neopagan, I respectfully inform you that this is utter nonsense.

Sorry to digress a bit, but I just want to catch it right here:
Can you list 3 reasons why you quit neo-paganism?

 

[Unitas]

Mostly it’s the issue of salvation. I can’t stand the fact that most people are going to hell. That depresses me. That many are called, few are chosen, and that the road is so narrow, like a privileged lottery God set up.

The lottery is a game of chance. Salvation is for those that follow God’s will; it’s not completely at random.

It’s good that you have sorrow for those who will go to hell. Many saints were blessed with this same compassion.

But we must remember that when someone is damned to hell, it is by their doing: God doesn’t send anyone to hell–we send ourselves there.

We can choose to follow God or remain in our rebellion. It’s quite easy, really. The fact that many wil go to hell just proves that many will not follow God. There’s nothing you or I can do but pray for them and try to educate them–as well as ourselves as we are not exempt–to try to steer them onto the narrow path.

We can’t tend to their faith for them, it’s ultimately their choice. We can only tend to our own.

We cannot blame God when someone is damned to hell because of their own actions. That’s not fair.