Gnostics

[CatholicFord]

WheatBean:

But I also believe the parts of me that wants to be saved for “my” own sake, that selfishly wants to stay alive, to stay away from pain, someday, will either be in Hell, or be dust. Only that which truly is of God, loves, has real compassion, truly deserves Heaven.

Interestingly enough, this is similiar to Purgatory. You see, when we die, even if through God’s mercy we will enter Heaven, we still must be purified, for there can remain within us no sin. If there were sin, we could not be in God’s presence, since sin by definition separates us from God. Therefore, those parts of you that you are trying to “get rid of” so to speak, would be gone, and all that would remain is the image of God that you are an individual expression of.

That’s about all the commentary I had planned for the moment. I hope I’ve been of some service. If not, my abject apologies. And, if there is anything I can do in the future, you need only ask, and if within my power, it shall be granted.

God Bless,
Ford

 

[WheatBean]

Dear Ford,

Thank you for taking the time to read my posts, and comment on them so kindly. I’m pretty sure my replies won’t make you overjoyed, but, all the same:

If you are searching for something to believe in, anything, then why did you choose your current belief system? I do not say this in ridicule or judgement, simply out of curiosity. If anything will do, why not Catholicism?

Oh no, I didn’t mean to imply that anything would do. Just that something was better than nothing-- following some sort of teachings, doing practices that speaks to me, was better than my previous state of “well… there’re these fascinating teachings and perspectives that speak to me… but I don’t know if they’re right, maybe the author is just crazy…” That it was better to chose, to try to follow these practices (self-observation, meditation, transmutation… which I must admit, should attempt more often), rather than to sit around, just waverying if they were worthwhile or not. Surely a healthy dose of doubt once in a while does bring us closer to God than we were before, if we were to question… but my approach was much too much in the “indecision” area, that stoped me from going forward, and trying.

At least in recent incidents, where I’ve watched myself as I’m speaking, I’ve been able to be more kind, less resentful, since I believe those parts, are not whatever “I” really am.

In fact, I believe it is precisely what you’re looking for. You say that you cannot know the truth (or at least, that is heavily what you imply). But if God Himself has revealed the truth, I’m fairly (actually completely) sure we can take him at his word. After all, He’s the Almighty. Whatever he says is the truth, by the simple fact of his Omnipotence.

I don’t believe the Bible, or the Catholic Church, contain the fullness of Truth themselves. I don’t believe the Bible is entirely God’s word-- I believe there are Divine things within it, but that over time, men have corrupted and changed the texts (and the Church) for their own purposes, even perhaps accidentally-- not with God guiding their actions. So much dispute over the meaning of passages… so many denominations… translation upon translation, editor upon editor… So much of the world is corrupted, has for ages been corrupt, and I believe the Catholic Church has not been safe from that either. This is the view from where I stand, vastly different from yours, I know. Thank you for respecting it, and realizing that its in my hands.

I’m not looking for something to believe in-- I’ve made a decision to give this a chance. Ideally, I’d want to be more open… my mind can believe what it wants, from the words of another or a thought in my head, but if I ever experience even a taste of Truth, those things, notions, images, will mean nothing.

“Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.”

I have a question for you, honest, sincere: what does that phrase mean to you?

And I’m still learning how to love. Cause I certainly don’t do that very well, or very often!

Interestingly enough, this is similiar to Purgatory. You see, when we die, even if through God’s mercy we will enter Heaven, we still must be purified, for there can remain within us no sin. If there were sin, we could not be in God’s presence, since sin by definition separates us from God. Therefore, those parts of you that you are trying to “get rid of” so to speak, would be gone, and all that would remain is the image of God that you are an individual expression of.

Interesting point! I’ve never noticed the similarity before! Thank you! But, I certainly don’t want to wait around to start paying my debts, or change my behavior… even if “I” won’t ever be “good enough” by the time I die. Only by God’s Grace would I be worthy of His precense, either way-- in your view, or mine.

Thank you again for your time and comments, concerns and care. And sharing that you were perhaps in a similar view some time ago. I don’t plan on returning to Catholecism (even by the valiant efforts to convert me of a certain Seminarian), but, if God calls me there, He calls me there. Though, I feel He calls me here. I may be wrong, but, what else should I go by moreso than my heart and understanding, however limited?

 

[Noraean]

The base root of this problems comes down to the unknown. None of us truly know what’s best for us, nor do we know what’s best for everyone and everything. Now I make no attack by stating this, but we don’t even know if there is a “right” religion, let alone if a human made institute was even what He wanted. After all Catholocism was not the first religion, nor will it be the last. The very diversity of the definition of “religion” are testament to that.

To overcomplicate the issue into different religions and sects is rather pointless, because in doing so we lose the essence of the message. To acknowledge the one God and to be good people. As soon as it goes further than that it becomes diluded, and to put such definitions into fallible and imperfect human hands is reason enough to question things.

For what more is needed than to love the lord with all you have, to treat your body as your temple to him, and to love thy neighbor as thyself (which in turn goes back to God)?

 

[Matt16_18]

WheatBean:

But also, I’m realizing that I simply must believe in something, follow something.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God.
John 3:16-21

 

[Palatine]

Thanks for the response, Wheatbean. You never fail to facinate, I have to admit.

And Noraean! There’s only one Noraean I know, so if its you, HI! Been awhile, thanks for you response, and welcome to the Catholic fourms! In response to your post in particular, I just bought a book yesterday called “Creed or Chaos” which supposedly speaks to the Christian who says, “it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you love God.” After I finish it, I’ll comment more fully.

But, anyway, again, I have to ask the question, “so, you know for sure that you don’t know?” The contradiction of this statement MUST be apparent to you. I understand that you believe words only have so much power, but a contradiction like this remains a contradiction, no matter how you phrase it. And just as how a house divided cannot stand, nor can a belief contridictory stand.

Next, let us discuss the truth about Truth. What is this Truth thing anyway? You say that everything has been corrupted, that everything holds a little divine inspiration, but not in its entirity.

How do you distinguish then what is the truth and what is the corruption. It’s all very well that you believe this, but* back it up.* Feel free to correct me, but it seems that you believe whatever “speaks” to you has some element of truth, thus why you follow Samael’s teachings. Who is to say that what you feel is the truth is actually corruption? After all, you claim all Catholics believe in some corruption too, what makes you exempt?

I’m not trying to bash you beliefs, but instead trying to make you look at things objectively. Again, I ask the question. What makes something True? I truly hope you don’t rank Truth by how it speaks to you, since you’ve already admitted that you yourself are faulted, made incomplete by the “demons” screaming inside your head.

Egos aren’t what make us human, from my understanding. They’re what make us UN-human, evil and terrible. One “I” wants to be a good person to get praise, another “I” believes that they are a good person and need no verification… if you’d like to, try watching your own thoughts throughout the day, especially interacting with people-- just see what comes up. Maybe you’ll notice these “little demons” who say “sleep all morning!” “yell at mom!” “post a reply to defend myself and make myself appear smart and great!” And we are not those "I"s, those desires, those egos which we so often identify ourselves with.

Which leads me onto the next thing. You seem to be suffering from all sorts of different personalities fighting for control–you and Legion might get along well The point is, you’re either suffering from demon possesion, or trying to shove off responsibility on something else. I would venture to say that it is not another “I” saying those things, but YOU! (And please, don’t take this as bashing you either, you know how I am with you And by saying this, I’m convicting myself too) You are a singular person, one body, one soul. I can see where you were going metaphoricly, but then we have to shine light on the metaphor. We have lots of conflicting desires, but ultimately it comes down to one thing–We can either choose for God, or against God. By ways of our original sin, we are inclined to choose against God, which is to choose all the proud things you used as examples. But again, I tell you that those things are never going to go anyway. The effects of orignal sin will last until we are in Heaven, even if we transmutate or flagulate ourselves until doomsday.

 

[Palatine]

Much like God the Father, and Mary, in Catholicism. I’d say, that is exactly true, the same, even if our words aren’ t identical, I imagine the Truth is (and no, I haven’t experienced this for myself entirely, without a doubt in mind, but only have my faith.) and that is where these similarities come from between so many religions: a similar, singular Truth. This is what I “believe,” and I know it needs further explanation and clarification, which I’m willing to elaborate on.

I’ve heard this a lot. But I still have a hard time swallowing it. Explain to me how a religion that is waiting for a Savior, and one that have found Him are simmilar. Or one that has no need of a Savior, or one that says the savior has already come and gone without notice. I honestly don’t see how this can be reconsilled.

I agree. But I also believe the parts of me that wants to be saved for “my” own sake, that selfishly wants to stay alive, to stay away from pain, someday, will either be in Hell, or be dust. Only that which truly is of God, loves, has real compassion, truly deserves Heaven.

How is it selfish to not want to die? How is it selfish to not want to suffer? Are you saying I have to be a massocist if I really want to be selfless? Jesus didn’t want to suffer either–“Please Lord, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me!” I guess that makes Him selfish, huh? Truly deserving of Heaven? I’m never ever ever gonna think I am deserving of Heaven. Anyone who does is obviously not. I’m still gonna say that you have to avoid this type of thinkng. No one can “earn” Heaven. Not even with Divine Help. (hold on a sec) What God does is JUSTIFY us. We do not become worthy of Heaven through this justification (and thus, we have Purgetory after death for most of us). Until you come to understand this concept, it will be very hard for you to understand Christianity or a loving, personal God. As always, I keep you in my prayers, and hope that you’ll take time to ponder what I’ve said before listening to that “pride demon” that says to yell back spitefully for handling your words harshly, or even unfairly. I’m not perfect, but all I have left to work with is the Spirit and shock value…

God bless

 

[Noraean]

Palatine:

And Noraean! There’s only one Noraean I know, so if its you, HI! Been awhile, thanks for you response, and welcome to the Catholic fourms! In response to your post in particular, I just bought a book yesterday called “Creed or Chaos” which supposedly speaks to the Christian who says, “it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you love God.” After I finish it, I’ll comment more fully.

The one and only.

Well, I’m leaning more towards live the message rather than getting caught up in the fine details and not doing anything. As with any statement or idea, it works well on paper. There’s problems either way you go I suppose, but the end what we are all working towards is the same.

 

[WheatBean]

Palatine: check your e-mail. ^_^;

 

[AnotherFriend33]

Víctor Manuel Gómez Rodríguez was a satanist. He was certainly a medium who was frequently possesed by a self-titled entity called Samael Aun Weor, which claimed to be the return of the Jesus Christ.

All traces from the so-called gnostic movement that originated in Colombia started with the satanic cult called golden dawn from Aleister Crowley in England. Crowley sent his disciple, Heinrich Arnold Krumm, to south America in order to spread his cult there under the name Fraternitas Rosicruciana Antiqua. It was there on F.R.A. where Victor Gomez started his megalomaniac cult.

We can find differences between the golden dawn and Gomez’s gnostics, and the reason why is very simple. Colombia is still a country with more than 90% Catholics, the F.R.A. knew it would not be easy to transform Catholics into satanists on just one step, that is why they created the smokescreen about eliminating the defects, and the ego. Such a smokescreen came from Russian satanists like Gurdjieff/Ouspensky.

Do not let yourself to be deceived.