Go ahead and raise your hands during the Our Father

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amgp said:
Please don’t try to even insinuate that protestants have a superior understanding of the Bible than the Catholic Church. The Bible is a Catholic book. All authors of the New Testament were Catholic, and the entire Bible was canonized by the Catholic Church 1,100 years before Luther came along and decided that he knew better. Without the infallible teachings of the Church founded by Jesus Christ to interpret scripture, you end up with false teachings; i.e. protestantism.

That’s why there are so many different protestant sects out there. They all think that they’re infallible, and that God made a mistake when he founded his Church on Peter. Ridiculous!
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Please don’t try to deliberately misunderstand me. You don’t need to tell me the Bible is a Catholic book.

I’m not arguing for the Protestant reformation. I’m not speaking of priests and seminarians and I’m not speaking of CAF Catholics.

There is a reason why so many Catholics are led astray by verse-spouting Protestants.

Which is why thank God some people in the Catholic Church recognize this deficiency and that is why places like Catholic Answers exist. Thank God!

I gotta tell you. God used Catholic Answers to convert me. When I heard Catholics on the Catholics Answers radio program quoting scriptures left and right, it opened up my eyes.
 
amgp said:
Please don’t try to even insinuate that protestants have a superior understanding of the Bible than the Catholic Church. The Bible is a Catholic book. All authors of the New Testament were Catholic, and the entire Bible was canonized by the Catholic Church 1,100 years before Luther came along and decided that he knew better. Without the infallible teachings of the Church founded by Jesus Christ to interpret scripture, you end up with false teachings; i.e. protestantism.

That’s why there are so many different protestant sects out there. They all think that they’re infallible, and that God made a mistake when he founded his Church on Peter. Ridiculous!
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So when we have bible study and some cradle Catholics can’t find Luke…they have a better understanding of the Bible? That’s what we are talking about…not the Church to teach us and interpret scripture. As a Catholic you should know your bible…interpretation is something else…and I for one am glad to have the Church to guide us!

But seriously folks…Mathew, Mark, and LUKE… That is where some Protestants have done a better job… that’s all we are saying.

Protestants are not the enemy…they are the ones to evangelize…treating them like the enemy will get us nowhere…

The real enemy is much more serious…he is the ones planting the weeds in the wheat…
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
So when we have bible study and some cradle Catholics can’t find Luke…they have a better understanding of the Bible? That’s what we are talking about…not the Church to teach us and interpret scripture. As a Catholic you should know your bible…interpretation is something else…and I for one am glad to have the Church to guide us!

But seriously folks…Mathew, Mark, and LUKE… That is where some Protestants have done a better job… that’s all we are saying.

Protestants are not the enemy…they are the ones to evangelize…treating them like the enemy will get us nowhere…

The real enemy is much more serious…he is the ones planting the weeds in the wheat…
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👍

I don’t like the Orans position being used by the Laity during the Our Father, but you are spot on with what you typed above. 😃
 
Love_Divine said:
No, because what they have is wrong. We don’t use the Bible in the same way that Protestants do, and we have many competent priests who spend years in the seminary learning theology, the vast majority of protestants don’t do this.
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And Protestants don’t have ministers who spend the same years in seminary learning theology? You’re comparing clergy to laity. Apples to Oranges, friend.

I’d put money that the average Protestant knows WAY more scripture than Joe Average Catholic. My SIL thought that the first four Apostles were Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Yikes. (Yeah, she’s a cradle Catholic, went to Catholic school for 8 years).

So far, nobody’s been able to explain why Catholic authors/theologians use Protestant sources in their biblican work. Why so, if they’re all wet?

Point is, there are things we can learn from Protestants. It’s our job to show them the complete package. 😉
amgp said:
Please don’t try to even insinuate that protestants have a superior understanding of the Bible than the Catholic Church. The Bible is a Catholic book. All authors of the New Testament were Catholic, and the entire Bible was canonized by the Catholic Church 1,100 years before Luther came along and decided that he knew better. Without the infallible teachings of the Church founded by Jesus Christ to interpret scripture, you end up with false teachings; i.e. protestantism.

That’s why there are so many different protestant sects out there. They all think that they’re infallible, and that God made a mistake when he founded his Church on Peter. Ridiculous!
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I hope you don’t mean that the Authors of the NT were Roman Catholic.
You too seem to paint with an excessively broad brush.
Annabelle_Marie said:
So when we have bible study and some cradle Catholics can’t find Luke…they have a better understanding of the Bible? That’s what we are talking about…not the Church to teach us and interpret scripture. As a Catholic you should know your bible…interpretation is something else…and I for one am glad to have the Church to guide us!

dittos
But seriously folks…Mathew, Mark, and LUKE… That is where some Protestants have done a better job… that’s all we are saying.

Protestants are not the enemy…they are the ones to evangelize…treating them like the enemy will get us nowhere…

The real enemy is much more serious…he is the ones planting the weeds in the wheat…
Click to expand...
👍
 
TrueLight said:
Of course there are things we can learn from Protestants. That doesn’t mean Protestant doctrine or liturgy is correct.

Not to call Protestants the enemy, because of course, I wouldn’t be doing that, but even in the case of an enemy, one can study and appreciate some of their tactics.

Things Protestants do well:
  • Instill in the flock the importance of reading the bible on your own. There are verses stuck in my head from when I was a kid.
  • Evangelical zeal - the desire to share one’s faith for the salvation of souls. And I’m not speaking of missionaries. I’m speaking of the laity.
  • Meaty sermons
  • Community
Whether these things existed first in the Catholic Church is besides the point. Where is it now?

Unfortunately, Protestants are missing the most important thing of all: The Eucharist and of course there are lots of errors in doctrine which causes much confusion resulting in countless denominations.

Nevertheless, there are things that a Catholic can take note of and do without changing the definition of what it means to be Catholic.
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Very well put.

Yeah, we all have seen an “unauthorized” loss of Catholicity to some Protestant traditions. Nobody here seems to be saying that’s a good thing.
 
coolduude said:
To say that a hymn or practice is Protestant-like is not putting them down. It’s stating a fact.

And to be quite honest, Protestants bad mouth the Church much more than we bad mouth them. I’m not trying to be holier-than-thou. It’s just the plain truth.
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I like lots of Protestant hyms, im not putting them down either, Amazing grace is clearly a Christian hymn whether it was originally penned by a Catholic or Protestant.

I usually dont put my arms in the air, because of Protestant influences…from the Presbyterians…who would rather be caught dead than letting in those “Pentecostal” practises.

You might take some time to work out what the major Protestants really are rather than parroting 33,000 denominations.🤷
 
christosdavid said:
I like lots of Protestant hyms, im not putting them down either, Amazing grace is clearly a Christian hymn whether it was originally penned by a Catholic or Protestant.

I usually dont put my arms in the air, because of Protestant influences…from the Presbyterians…who would rather be caught dead than letting in those “Pentecostal” practises.

You might take some time to work out what the major Protestants really are rather than parroting 33,000 denominations.🤷
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OH NO! You’ve opened the “Amazing Grace” can-o-worms! Quick, stuff them back in before it’s too late!

:D:D:D
 
Newbie2 said:
I am so hosed then. Question becomes, can I still gain an plenary indulgence for reading a Protestant version of Scripture daily?

:eek:
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As truelight said, a “negative plenary indulgence.” It cancels the effect of your last plenary indulgence. Don’t forget that the creators and translators of that protestant “bible” are probably going to burn in hell too.
 
Newbie2 said:
This whole “raising hands is a Protestant thing” sounds a bit like ecclesial snobbery. I understand when it is brought up in an attempt to explain the origin of the practice, but when some posters put it down as “a Protestant thing”, it sounds a bit judgmental, similar to many posts in “that’s a Protestant hymn” threads.

Hey, folks, God hears everybody’s prayers, regardless of the positon of one’s arms.

Just sayin’…I hope such posts aren’t meant as such.

Catholics, yeah, we have a code to follow; different rules to the ball game. 😉
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They are not being mean to you or anyone. They are just mentioning the trush. Some of them have good experience with the Roman missal and know like the back of their hand. As one poster said, until it appears on the missal it’s not required and reall shouldn’t be done. Do it outside the mass if that’s your cup of tea. The mass is not ours, it belongs to God.

I don’t think this is a tradition starting up as one poster mention, if it was it would be catching on, not dying out.
 
CB_Catholic said:
The Orans position is not a Protestant prayer posture. It is older than Christianity itself, and was frquently used by the early Christians. The early Christians were definitely not Protestant.

I can understand people not liking the position used in the Liturgy by the laity, but you should look into what you are objecting to before you label it “Protestant” and condemn it outright. Catholic priests use it in the Liturgy, how could it be Protestant? It is fine for private prayer, it is a position of supplication. The Church does not regulate one’s private prayer life and gestures.

Most people who use it during the Mass do not have it in their heads that they are in imitation of the priest. They use it because it is an ancient prayer position of supplication. Most people at Mass who do things that others like to complain about or ascribe less than charitable motives to are not duing it out of rebellion or some nefarious motive. Most people are doing the best they can with what they know and what they have been taught.
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Oh really? I really doubt that most people who used this position know that it’s very ancient posture. No instead they do it because of the domino effect. One person does it so the next one does it and it continues. You ask them why they do it and most will respond with “it’s the norm or everyone does it”. Not because Moses or early Chrisitans did it. I don’t think people are being uncharitable I think most of us are tired at looking towards protestants or other religions on how to participate in the Mass. We have hundres of saints we can look at instead we have our eyes else where.
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
There are some things that we could learn from Protestants…good things…such as charity. I’ve never heard a Protestant say “That’s a Catholic thing to do…therefore it’s bad” I can almost see the snear on the lip…

There are some very good and very sincere people that are Protestants…even if they have not found the fullness of faith. I don’t understand why we have to CONSTANTLY put them down…🤷
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Charity is a Catholic thing. Must be very luck you never met a protestants who did not bad mouth the Church. I’ve met plenty, and I can introduce you to some if you like?
 
Newbie2 said:
So we are the chosen people and they aren’t. Our worship is accepted by the Almighty more than other forms of worship.

:rolleyes:

This is great example of what I’m talking about.

I suppose we cannot learn anything from Protestant biblical scholars either. :rolleyes:

Don’t misunderstand for a minute, I’m not saying we ***should ***change anything, just that to think we have the market on worship is arrogant.
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Uhm yes we are the chosen people now. Anyone who enters into the Church becomes part of the One True faith, I don’t understand what you don’t get about that? This is not being a snob this is the truth and because of this we can have the confidence that we belong to God’s true Church. I mean really? I think you are confusing what being charitable is. It’s not to be “nice” at the expence of the truth. Christ wasn’t “nice” contrary to popular belief, he was full force truth. He said what had to be said and also acted on it, wether we look at it as nice or not it’s up to each individual.
 
Newbie2 said:
I think that the Almighty is the one who determines the “equality” or non-equality of worship.

No need. I help teach RCIA.
In any case, I think we need to better define what is meant by “superior”, “better”, “equal to”, etc. to make any further comments on this.
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That’s pretty scary if you help with the same mentality you have on here.
 
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