Go Arch-bishop Burke

  • Thread starter Thread starter johnq
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

johnq

Guest
Please pray for all involved.

Archbishop threatens to withhold sacraments
By Tim Townsend
Of the Post-Dispatch
01/04/2005
http://images.stltoday.com/stltoday/resources/raymondburke155.jpg
**St. Louis Archbishop Raymond L. Burke
**(P-D)


** oascentral.stltoday.com/RealMedia/ads/Creatives/Postnet/PDSubscription180x150-010405/tile_ad.gif**
http://images.stltoday.com/stltoday/pixels/336699.gif
St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke has threatened to withhold the sacraments of the Roman Catholic church, including Communion, from board members of St. Stanislaus Kostka Parish in a dispute over control of the church.

“I warn you that your refusal to comply with the legitimate directives of the Holy See and me, your Archbishop, carries with it, the punishment of ‘interdict or other just penalties,’” wrote Burke in a letter to the board members. The archbishop set a date of Feb. 4 for the board to comply with his directives.

Monsignor Thomas J. Green, professor of canon law at Catholic University, described interdict as a “mini excommunication.”

Burke was installed as St. Louis’ Catholic leader almost exactly a year ago, and his warning to the St. Stanislaus board is the latest in a series of moves that have earned him a controversial reputation as an uncompromising leader and strong individualist.

“Each bishop runs his own shop, and some things happen in some dioceses that would never happen in others,” said Thomas G. Plante, a professor of religion and psychology at Santa Clara University in California. “Rank and file Catholics tend to think of the bishops marching in lock step, but that’s not true. What happens in St. Louis can be radically different from what happens in San Francisco or Los Angeles based on who’s in charge.”

Charles M. Wilson, executive director of the St. Joseph Foundation, a legal support group for Catholics, said in 20 years of cases, he had seen the penalty of interdict issued less than a dozen times. “It is not commonplace,” he said. He added that because most interdicts are handled quietly, “it is impossible to know how many happen” each year.

“It might be rare,” said Jamie Allman, an archdiocesan spokesman, “but it’s even rarer for a board of directors to hijack a Catholic church.”

Burke’s letter was sent just days before St. Stanislaus parishioners are due to vote on whether to accept the archbishop’s latest proposal to hand control of the parish back to the archdiocese. “Why wouldn’t he send a letter out days before they’re going to vote on the parish,” said Allman. “The board needs to know that by their actions, they’re imperiling the future of their church . . . the archbishop has promised them more than any other Catholic church in the archdiocese currently has.”

In his letter, Burke said that “the outcome of that vote will have no bearing on the future of the Parish” because, he maintained, the board has written the question in such a way that parishioners will not be voting on what is truly at stake.

The penalty of interdict would be issued by Burke, not by the Vatican, but its effect for the board members would be in place throughout the Catholic world, not just in the archdiocese of St. Louis. If Burke issues the penalty, the board members would be given an opportunity to respond during what would amount to an appeal. It would also be lifted if any of those penalized were to repent.

“I consider it a badge of honor,” said board member Robert Zabielski. “I’m sticking up for what is right. Pedophiles in this church are transferred from diocese to diocese while good, faithful people are excommunicated.” Zabielski said he was not surprised to receive the letter. “It was only a matter of time before something like this came,” he said.
 
continued…

Roger Krasnicki, a St. Stanislaus spokesman, called Burke’s warning “a heinous act.”

“Archbishop Burke has gone far beyond his authority,” he said, “and he has abused his authority in executing an order like this.”

Burke was on retreat and unavailable for comment, but Allman said the archbishop was doing his job. “These are not threats, they’re realities - not born out of the archbishop’s imagination, but out of the canon law books in Rome,” said Allman. “He’d face problems from the Vatican himself if he didn’t do this.”

In the letter, Burke wrote that he was issuing the warning to the six board members -Zabielski , John Baras, William Bialczak, Edward Florek, Stanley Novak and Joseph Rudawski- “because your lack of compliance constitutes a grave act of disobedience, leading parishioners into disobedience to the Holy See and to the Archbishop and, thus, publicly manifesting lack of unity with the Church.”

“We don’t understand,” said Allman, “why the board of directors thinks it’s so surprising that the Roman Catholic Church would ask a Roman Catholic church to be a Roman Catholic church.”

Reporter Tim Townsend
E-mail: ttownsend@post-dispatch.com
Phone: 314-340-8221

stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/5DC92F3975617C3286256F800019008B?OpenDocument&Headline=Archbishop+threatens+to+withhold+sacraments
 
What exactly is the conflict between the Archbishop and this board?
 
40.png
JKirkLVNV:
What exactly is the conflict between the Archbishop and this board?
Click to expand...
From what I have gathered (and have not followed this that closely, so there must be more to it) it sounds like this parish has basically been “taken over” (hijacked?) by lay people over the years. Lay people run the parish, manage all assets, manage all activity, and the priest is just another employee of the parish board, and does whatever the lay people tell him. Canon law forbids any such arrangement of the laity “employing”/“managing” the designated pastor of a Roman Catholic parish.

Archbishop (now Cardinal) Justin Rigali, before being sent to Philly, apparently had trouble with the parish for years, not seriously holding their feet to the fire (like Burke is doing), but giving them plenty of warnings… they definitly knew what they were doing and that the Church did not approve of it, and they definitely knew what the consequences could be.

As soon as Archbishop Burke got on the scene and was appraised of the situation, and after reviewing all the previous work done over the years by Rigali, he requested meetings with the parish leaders to try to get them to come in line.

That didn’t work, and they became more obstructionist and demanding instead. Then, Burke pulled their priests from duty there, forbidding any priest from celebrating the sacraments in the church until such a time as the church was brought back into communion with the Roman Catholic Church. Now, this past Christmas, a priest disobeyed and celebrated Midnight Mass for them.

Now we hear about these events, and the possible interdict against them… Archbishop Burke is smart, he is well versed in canon law and in what the Church has to say about this, and he is well within his rights to demand obedience in this respect from a parish that claims to be in communion with Rome.

I say, way to go Archbishop! :gopray:

(All I wish was that this much episcopal attention was being paid to a certain parish in South Minneapolis as well… :rolleyes: 😃 )

+veritas+
 
+veritas+:
it sounds like this parish has basically been “taken over” (hijacked?) by lay people over the years. Lay people run the parish, manage all assets, manage all activity, and the priest is just another employee of the parish board, and does whatever the lay people tell him.

+veritas+
Click to expand...
That sounds like my parish, only it happens with the full blessing of the Bishop. The priest is called a “sacramental minister” and he does not even get a full time salary from the parish or the diocese.
 
Ah trusteeism rears its ugly head, again. It is often viewed as an easy solution, but the long term effect is never good.
 
+veritas+:
From what I have gathered (and have not followed this that closely, so there must be more to it) it sounds like this parish has basically been “taken over” (hijacked?) by lay people over the years. Lay people run the parish, manage all assets, manage all activity, and the priest is just another employee of the parish board, and does whatever the lay people tell him. Canon law forbids any such arrangement of the laity “employing”/“managing” the designated pastor of a Roman Catholic parish.

Archbishop (now Cardinal) Justin Rigali, before being sent to Philly, apparently had trouble with the parish for years, not seriously holding their feet to the fire (like Burke is doing), but giving them plenty of warnings… they definitly knew what they were doing and that the Church did not approve of it, and they definitely knew what the consequences could be.

As soon as Archbishop Burke got on the scene and was appraised of the situation, and after reviewing all the previous work done over the years by Rigali, he requested meetings with the parish leaders to try to get them to come in line.

That didn’t work, and they became more obstructionist and demanding instead. Then, Burke pulled their priests from duty there, forbidding any priest from celebrating the sacraments in the church until such a time as the church was brought back into communion with the Roman Catholic Church. Now, this past Christmas, a priest disobeyed and celebrated Midnight Mass for them.

Now we hear about these events, and the possible interdict against them… Archbishop Burke is smart, he is well versed in canon law and in what the Church has to say about this, and he is well within his rights to demand obedience in this respect from a parish that claims to be in communion with Rome.

I say, way to go Archbishop! :gopray:

(All I wish was that this much episcopal attention was being paid to a certain parish in South Minneapolis as well… :rolleyes: 😃 )

+veritas+
Click to expand...
Wow, the error of congregationalism. God bless the Archbishop.
 
There’s a reason it’s called the KINGDOM of Heaven…not the Republic. 😉

Lord have mercy.
Holy Queen pray for them.
Amen.
 
Anyone know what happened to the priest who celebrated the midnight mass?
 
40.png
Nichevo:
Anyone know what happened to the priest who celebrated the midnight mass?
Click to expand...
He was flown in from somewhere else and was never named in the newspaper article about the Mass.

Kris
 
+veritas+:
From what I have gathered (and have not followed this that closely, so there must be more to it) it sounds like this parish has basically been “taken over” (hijacked?) by lay people over the years. Lay people run the parish, manage all assets, manage all activity, and the priest is just another employee of the parish board, and does whatever the lay people tell him. Canon law forbids any such arrangement of the laity “employing”/“managing” the designated pastor of a Roman Catholic parish.+veritas+
Click to expand...
Actually, not quite. The parish was founded this way more than two turns of the century ago, under the canon law of the time. The priest is an employee of the diocese, the parish Board of Trustees manges the temporal property that has been entrusted to them.

The parishioners are actually rather tempermentally conservative Polish-Americans. While canon law no long permits this sort of corporate arrangement, canon law does allow contrary forms of property ownership based on a practice of “time immemorial”.

The test for Burke is can he do this in a pastoral manner? The jury is still out.
 
Less than two centuries ago there was slavery in MO and women could not vote. Not a single cannon lawyer or bishop is in support of the Polish Congregation. Not one. The excuse that “this is the way we always did it” is not acceptable in the post Vatican II era. We are one body. The eyes do not have more rights than the fingers.

The article suggests that the archbishop has already given them special pastoral treatment. Apparently not special enough however:

*". . . the archbishop has promised them more than any other Catholic church in the archdiocese currently has." *
*
*I think that the pastoral card has been played and rejected.

The real question is does the congregation want to be Catholic (and thus subject to the local bishop like every other Catholic in the world) or form their own “Polish Congregation” and fly in disobedient priests? You can not have it both ways.
 
Daniel Kane:
The excuse that “this is the way we always did it” is not acceptable in the post Vatican II era.
Click to expand...
Why not? The principle of immemorial custom remains.
The real question is does the congregation want to be Catholic (and thus subject to the local bishop like every other Catholic in the world
Click to expand...
It is Catholic and has been from its founding and has a form of incorporation that is not unique.
 
This coming Friday, I am going to the St. Louis Marian Conference and Archbishop Raymond Burke will be celebrating the Mass. I’m really looking forward to it. 👍

:blessyou:
Annie
 
I understand that Bishop Robert Vasa of Baker, Ore., transferred legal ownership of parish properties away from the diocese to the individual parishes a few years ago to avoid paying out on pending sex abuse law suits. He said he had Canon Law to back him up on that. So which Canon Law is right? Archbishop Burke’s or Bishop Vasa’s?
 
“I consider it a badge of honor,” said board member Robert Zabielski. “I’m sticking up for what is right. Pedophiles in this church are transferred from diocese to diocese while good, faithful people are excommunicated.” Zabielski said he was not surprised to receive the letter. “It was only a matter of time before something like this came,” he said.
Click to expand...
No one has commented on this so I will.
  1. The sex scandal was not pedophilia as pedophilia is a psychosexual disorder in which an adult’s arousal and sexual gratification occur primarily through sexual contact with prepubescent children. The sex scandal was pederasty which is a sexual attraction toward male adolescents or homosexual acts when those males were over the age of consent. Hardly any at all were with prepubescents.
  2. It seems that this excuse, the sex scandal, is used by certain lay groups for anything they want to do to tear the Church down.
And then to katherine2’s comment about a pastoral solution. Seems when ever a bishop exercises his authority that he is said to not be acting in a pastoral manner. What about obedience?
 
St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke said Tuesday he would withhold the sacraments of the Roman Catholic church, including Holy Communion, from board members of St. Stanislaus Kostka Catholic Church.

The announcement came in the form of a one-sentence press release Tuesday morning, stating that Burke’s “extraordinary patience in dealing with the board of St. Stanislaus Kostka has officially evaporated.”

I can not believe this is coming from the Archdiocese. How on Earth could this statement help the situation???!!!

The perfect description of Burke: Autocrat and Technocrat!!! No one could ever accuse Burke of being a shepherd!
 
Archbiship Burke is about as orthodox and as solid as they come. When others criticize Burke it is based in a lack of obedience!

Peace,
Trevor
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top