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adrift
Guest
Jesus was quoting from the Old Testament.
What you are not taking into account is that Jesus IS God but He is also human. He has two natures God and human. You are not factoring in His human nature.
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What you are not taking into account is that Jesus IS God but He is also human. He has two natures God and human. You are not factoring in His human nature.
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ahmadhassan
Guest
can you prove that he has two natures
C
chet
Guest
He is both true God and True man.who heard God when he talked to prophets Noah ,Abraham, David ,moses )
second ,you assume that Christ is God and that all disciples are his prophets ) would you first prove him to be God ,not a man sent by God?
His divine nature witch he had from all eternity and his human nature witch he received from Mary. In Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” If God is 1 Who is the “our image” refering to?
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ahmadhassan
Guest
first for you sake dont qoute from the qur
second
John 5:22-23 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
you see that they are not one as bible say ,now tell me who should we believe ?
second He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him the sender cant be who was sent ,and who was sent is newer than the sender
third ,as christ was send from God then who dont honor him dont honor God ,a small example ,who dont honor an embassador of a country dont honor the president of that country who sent him
1 Samuel 8:7 And the LORD told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king.
an to prove what you say simply bec you dont understand the quran ,and you believe that the whole qur`an to be lies ,so how do you wanna use that lies to prove something ?second
John 5:22-23 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
you see that they are not one as bible say ,now tell me who should we believe ?
second He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him the sender cant be who was sent ,and who was sent is newer than the sender
third ,as christ was send from God then who dont honor him dont honor God ,a small example ,who dont honor an embassador of a country dont honor the president of that country who sent him
1 Samuel 8:7 And the LORD told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king.
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ahmadhassan
Guest
proof ,do you say that father or holyspirit married blessed mary? can you prove that he isnt son of joseph (if you did so then he isnt the messiah)
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Mamastrocity
Guest
Am I the only one who sees the irony in this statement?first for you sake dont qoute from the quran to prove what you say simply bec you dont understand the quran ,and you believe that the whole qur`an to be lies ,so how do you wanna use that lies to prove something ?
Perhaps you should stop quoting the bible, since you believe IT to be full of lies.
Oh, and Christ indeed lays claim to his divinity by saying, “I am the good shepherd.” (John 10:11) Those that heard him say this definitely understood his meaning because they expressed an enormous amount of shock at his boldness.
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chet
Guest
Please read the complete eddited text.I am done for now!
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ahmadhassan
Guest
who said that muslims dont believe in the bible?
here is our belief about bible (if you wanna discuss it open new thread) there are 3 things
1-verses which islam agree with ,we cant be muslims if we didnt believe it
2-verses that islam dont agree with ,we cant be muslims if we agreed with
3- verses that islam didnt talk about we cant believe or disbelieve it
second ,any prophet is shepherd of his ppl bec he is learning them how to leave and guide them to the way of God
is there any phrase in the bible that christ say i`m God worship me?
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ahmadhassan
Guest
God is spirit according to bible
God is like nothing else ,he isnt man nor son of man
third ,do you believe that God has body that is human like (before what you claim about birth of God
dont you see that this contradict with believe that God is spirit and what you believe that God was born to take human shape ,if he is human like why he need to be born
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MHalsey
Guest
So what you’re saying is that you only accept what you agree with and disagree with what you don’t accept. This is so inconsistent and is why no one hear will ever agree with anything you say.
As was said before, your arguments are downright insulting to all Christians, not just Catholics. You are not here for honest debate, nor are you here to learn.
Everyone else take heed. Nothing you say will get Ahmad to see the trinity as we do. He requires proof from Christians, but as his last statement says, he can only accept what Islam has to say about the Bible.
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Mamastrocity
Guest
Do you not find yourself in a conundrum that your Islam picks and chooses what it wants to believe from the bible? Truth requires acceptance of all doctrine–it does not allow you to pick and choose in such a manner.
Not so, and Christ illustrates this further in the passage I mentioned:
John 10:11-30:
11: I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
Claim to divinity.
12: He who is a hireling and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.
13: He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep.
Addresses false prophets.
14: I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me,
15: as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Reiteration of the claim to divinity, to clarify that he is not mistaken in his selection of words.
16: And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
ONE flock, ONE shepherd; the Lord, himself.
17: For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again.
18: No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father."
Authority established.
19: There was again a division among the Jews because of these words.
20: Many of them said, “He has a demon, and he is mad; why listen to him?”
21: Others said, "These are not the sayings of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?"
Shock from the Jews because Jesus’ meaning was VERY clear in his metaphorical speech.
22: It was the feast of the Dedication at Jerusalem;
23: it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the portico of Solomon.
24: So the Jews gathered round him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
25: Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness to me;
26: but you do not believe, because you do not belong to my sheep.
27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;
28: and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
29: My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30: I and the Father are one."
There is part explanation and proof of the Trinity; Christ states clearly that he and God are one and the same; he certainly fulfills the Jews requests in asking him to “tell them plainly” if he is indeed the Christ. His response is unequivocal: “I and the Father are ONE.” He does not say that he is anything else but ONE with the Lord.
I already illustrated Christ’s claim to divinity. There is no reason to even ask this question.
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ahmadhassan
Guest
i didnt say that i
m picking ,im just saying we muslims believe in the bible and we believe in it to be partially right and some verses are corrupted ,so we can quote from it ,but for christians they believe that the whole qur`an is a lie so they cant quote from it 
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ahmadhassan
Guest
what?
where is claiming divinity? i will let christians here to tell you that claiming to be shepherd isnt claiming to be God ,bec he worship Goddid he say i`m your God?
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MHalsey
Guest
Yet you have quoted from it. This is the part that is disingenuous. You asked what Catholics believed. Obviously our proofs are not acceptable to you because of your inconsistent acceptance of only parts of the Bible.i didnt say that im picking ,im just saying we muslims believe in the bible and we believe in it to be partially right and some verses are corrupted ,so we cant quote from it ,but for christians they believe that the whole qur`an is a lie so they cant quote from it
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MHalsey
Guest
Would it matter if he did? You would probably just say is was a part of the Bible that was corrupted.what?
did he say i`m your God?
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ahmadhassan
Guest
sorry there was a problem with typing but meaning was understood from the sentence recheeck it
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ahmadhassan
Guest
if you see whole of my posts you will find that i dont do so and i will not do so ,i will give you answer from bible not from islam
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Mamastrocity
Guest
On the contrary, he IS claiming his divinity with this statement. If not, why would those hearing him be shocked or wonder if he was possessed by a demon?what?
did he say i`m your God?
Jews of this period are hyper-aware of the title of “The Good Shepherd.” It is the Old Testament reference of Ezekiel 34:1-3:
1: The word of the LORD came to me:
2: "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say to them, even to the shepherds, Thus says the Lord GOD: Ho, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding yourselves! Should not shepherds feed the sheep?
3: You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fatlings; but you do not feed the sheep.
And it goes on:
8: As I live, says the Lord GOD, because my sheep have become a prey, and my sheep have become food for all the wild beasts, since there was no shepherd; and because my shepherds have not searched for my sheep, but the shepherds have fed themselves, and have not fed my sheep;
9: therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD:
10: Thus says the Lord GOD, Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my sheep at their hand, and put a stop to their feeding the sheep; no longer shall the shepherds feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep from their mouths, that they may not be food for them.
11: "For thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I, I myself will search for my sheep, and will seek them out.
12: As a shepherd seeks out his flock when some of his sheep have been scattered abroad, so will I seek out my sheep; and I will rescue them from all places where they have been scattered on a day of clouds and thick darkness.
13: And I will bring them out from the peoples, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them into their own land; and I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the fountains, and in all the inhabited places of the country.
14: I will feed them with good pasture, and upon the mountain heights of Israel shall be their pasture; there they shall lie down in good grazing land, and on fat pasture they shall feed on the mountains of Israel.
**15: I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep, and I will make them lie down, says the Lord GOD. **
This is long before Christ–these are the words of GOD; for Christ to come and say, “I am the Good Shepherd” is tantamount to Ezekiel 34:15 and Ezekiel 34:31:
31: And you are my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, and I am your God, says the Lord GOD."
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ahmadhassan
Guest
1: The word of the LORD came to me:
2: "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say to them, even to the** shepherds**, Thus says the Lord GOD: Ho, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding yourselves! Should not shepherds feed the sheep?
3: You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fatlings; but you do not feed the sheep.
23 I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. 24 I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken.
2: "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say to them, even to the** shepherds**, Thus says the Lord GOD: Ho, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding yourselves! Should not shepherds feed the sheep?
3: You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fatlings; but you do not feed the sheep.
23 I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. 24 I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken.
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Mamastrocity
Guest
In this passage, God is addressing the problem of false prophets. Jewish priests who should be “tending their flock,” but instead are “growing fat” on their positions of power. I should have clarified that. However, in the last verse God speaks of “His sheep.” The Lord God is “The Good Shepherd.” This is why, when Jesus says, “I am The Good Shepherd,” the Jews are in absolute shock at his claim.
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