God does NOT have a plan for you

[AP4Him]

Thought that would get your attention. I want to bounce around some thoughts and get your insights. I used to tell my family and friends that if you love, know, and serve God, he will call you, show you his Will for you–his master plan for your life. It will fall into place. I don’t believe that anymore, and I feel like it is a very calvinist type thing, yet this is how everyone around me thinks. What changed my view…the past three years our family has experienced horrific devastation. I have had well meaning Catholics tell me that it is a test. A test?! That it is a special blessing to bring us closer to God. !!! That it is awful, but it is part of his plan, which will only make sense to us someday…

and none of this makes sense with what I know about my loving God. He would not use human life for such purposes. I just don’t buy it. So it got me thinking…

I think that God desires good for us. He desires that we follow his commandments, pray, receive the eucharist, do good in His name…I think generally that can be said that he has willed these things for us…and I def think that his plan for us involves going to heaven. Again, that is what he desires for us-for us to join Him there. But specific stuff? No.

Like hand picking whom we marry. Or what profession we have, maybe even down to the job. Or acting like a puppeteer up there, killing or maiming our loved ones to bring about some master purpose in our life.

Where does this belief come from? Most Catholics I speak to tell me that my horrible events in my life are infact part of God’s plan even if I cannot understand it.

 

[Petaro]

I can only agree with you. Free will would imply that we can take ourselves into all sorts of situations, vocations relationships etc. I don’t think everything that happens is part of some preordained plan of God.He is a guiding Father not a puppeteer.

 

[Quill_and_Sword]

I agree completely. If His will was predestined and set in stone, then we would have no ability to reject Him and, well, if you continue the train of thought, you get Calvinism.

God’s “plan” is that everybody end up in heaven with Him, but we have free will to say “no.”

I don’t think tragedies like murder, accidents, and other horrors are part of His plan because He is not responsible for it.

 

[po18guy]

Another reason for preview panes on the “Latest Threads” column…

 

[fhansen]

Thought that would get your attention. I want to bounce around some thoughts and get your insights. I used to tell my family and friends that if you love, know, and serve God, he will call you, show you his Will for you–his master plan for your life. It will fall into place. I don’t believe that anymore, and I feel like it is a very calvinist type thing, yet this is how everyone around me thinks. What changed my view…the past three years our family has experienced horrific devastation. I have had well meaning Catholics tell me that it is a test. A test?! That it is a special blessing to bring us closer to God. !!! That it is awful, but it is part of his plan, which will only make sense to us someday…

and none of this makes sense with what I know about my loving God. He would not use human life for such purposes. I just don’t buy it. So it got me thinking…

I think that God desires good for us. He desires that we follow his commandments, pray, receive the eucharist, do good in His name…I think generally that can be said that he has willed these things for us…and I def think that his plan for us involves going to heaven. Again, that is what he desires for us-for us to join Him there. But specific stuff? No.

Like hand picking whom we marry. Or what profession we have, maybe even down to the job. Or acting like a puppeteer up there, killing or maiming our loved ones to bring about some master purpose in our life.

Where does this belief come from? Most Catholics I speak to tell me that my horrible events in my life are infact part of God’s plan even if I cannot understand it.

Except that, IMO, knowing beforehand whatever evil may befall us in life, God can use, without causing, these experiences for His purposes-for our sake.

 

[JosieN]

I believe He has a plan and if we do His will we are following that plan. The problem is when we sin we are not following that plan because we are no longer doing His will and that is when bad things happen. He does not cause it to happen in our lives. But if we turn to God in prayer our lives will become good again and we will be closer to God then we were before. God knows what is best for us and we must trust Him at all times.

 

[PennyinCanada]

Like hand picking whom we marry. Or what profession we have, maybe even down to the job. Or acting like a puppeteer up there, killing or maiming our loved ones to bring about some master purpose in our life.

I feel as though God hand picked my hubby for me, what profession we both are in, and where we work. Absolutely. Those are big, life changing events. Of course we want God to help us in these endeavors. We have seen the finger print of God many times in our married life. We want to be united with Christ in all things, to give God glory and to gain merit for the salvation of souls as our Mother asked at Fatima.

If you have experienced the killing and maiming of your loved ones, I am so very very sorry. I cannot imagine what terrible grief that must be. I can say that our sufferings on this earth can be united with Christ on the Cross, used for the salvation of souls. It can gain great merit for ourselves and others when we are conscious that suffering can be used to benefit others. It can give us purpose and courage. There have been people I have known that have suffered greatly and I suspect that when they come to Christ at the end of their life, they will then see what they purchased in graces for others, and they would exclaim that every minute was worth it. Let’s hope so. We have our example of Christ on the cross redeeming mankind and we can have some small share in that. God bless and strengthen you today.

 

[CBinNY]

A step by step plan like a recipe, no I don’t think life is like that. I do think God wants us to follow him and be holy and will try to help us choose that. It can be through actual grace. It can be through having a deep prayer life and total surrender to God that you can discern what God wants you to do and by our surrender we are using our free will to choose that. Using the Ignatius spirituality we choose what to do based on when we feel the state of consultation versus the state of desolation.
Why does bad things happen to good people as you told us happened to your family doesn’t mean that God is not active in the world acting to bring us to conversion and helping us with life choices that will help that happen.

 

[millstreet]

The way I see it, God’s plan is for you to use the talents he gave you to do his will. He knows your strengths and weaknesses, and provides opportunities in which He knows you can succeed in this regard. Your challenge is to recognize them, and take advantage of them. His plan may take you places you don’t think you need to go, en route to a larger fulfillment. That is what we need to be open to, IMO.

 

[littlestsouls2]

Dom Vital Lehodey masterfully (imo) explains God’s Providence in his book ‘Holy Abandonment.’ Whoever reads this comment and would like to gain a greater appreciation for God’s love and wisdom, might consider checking it out.

Peace.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Where does this belief come from? Most Catholics I speak to tell me that my horrible events in my life are infact part of God’s plan even if I cannot understand it.

Many people half-understand teachings and then come up with such ideas. God permits evil but that doesn’t mean He wants it to happen. He has permitted these tragedies in your family but that does not mean that He wanted them to happen. This can be difficult to accept because we all want to feel protected by God.

Maybe people think that bad things were a part of the plan because the church teaches that God can turn bad things into something good when we cooperate with Him and do his will. I can see how this could be twisted into thinking that God wills evil to happen so something good can come out of it.

 

[AP4Him]

I believe He has a plan and if we do His will we are following that plan. **The problem is when we sin we are not following that plan because we are no longer doing His will and that is when bad things happen. **He does not cause it to happen in our lives. But if we turn to God in prayer our lives will become good again and we will be closer to God then we were before. God knows what is best for us and we must trust Him at all times.

I think your quote illustrates some of the opinions on suffering that i have been met with, and I disagree. Bad things happen even if you are following God’s will. (think Job). We are devout Catholics. We love God. We pray. We love the Mass and go frequently. I can go on…I won’t, lol…its just to say that what has happened to us, well I find it hard to attribute to our lack of faith. I can get real scrupulous if I believed this…“did my son get sick because I prayed the divine office instead of the rosary?” “did my son get sick because I am not more vocal about pro life” See the problem? I know you do not mean to make people like me feel bad, but your statements are very much like Job’s friend’s words are-that we have done something wrong or that if we were just following His will a little bit better, we would not have this tragedy. Turning to God in prayer DOES NOT mean our lives will become good again. I think that is a dangerous statement-saints are a great example-they were martyred despite a heavy prayerful devotion. Saying that God knows what is best for us is flippant when a mother is losing her child or when a woman is raped, etc. It just doesn’t make sense. I think your sentiments illustrate much of what I am talking about.

A step by step plan like a recipe, no I don’t think life is like that. I do think God wants us to follow him and be holy and will try to help us choose that. It can be through actual grace. It can be through having a deep prayer life and total surrender to God that you can discern what God wants you to do and by our surrender we are using our free will to choose that. Using the Ignatius spirituality we choose what to do based on when we feel the state of consultation versus the state of desolation.
Why does bad things happen to good people as you told us happened to your family doesn’t mean that God is not active in the world acting to bring us to conversion and helping us with life choices that will help that happen.

I agree-I have not and will not lose my faith over it. I love God regardless of my condition. I do think he is still active in the world. I just don’t think he is a puppeteer, especially when talking about the horrible things that happen.

Many people half-understand teachings and then come up with such ideas. God permits evil but that doesn’t mean He wants it to happen. He has permitted these tragedies in your family but that does not mean that He wanted them to happen. This can be difficult to accept because we all want to feel protected by God.

Maybe people think that bad things were a part of the plan because the church teaches that God can turn bad things into something good when we cooperate with Him and do his will. I can see how this could be twisted into thinking that God wills evil to happen so something good can come out of it.

Very well said.

 

[AP4Him]

I feel as though God hand picked my hubby for me, what profession we both are in, and where we work. Absolutely. Those are big, life changing events. Of course we want God to help us in these endeavors. We have seen the finger print of God many times in our married life. We want to be united with Christ in all things, to give God glory and to gain merit for the salvation of souls as our Mother asked at Fatima.

If you have experienced the killing and maiming of your loved ones, I am so very very sorry. I cannot imagine what terrible grief that must be. I can say that our sufferings on this earth can be united with Christ on the Cross, used for the salvation of souls. It can gain great merit for ourselves and others when we are conscious that suffering can be used to benefit others. It can give us purpose and courage. There have been people I have known that have suffered greatly and I suspect that when they come to Christ at the end of their life, they will then see what they purchased in graces for others, and they would exclaim that every minute was worth it. Let’s hope so. We have our example of Christ on the cross redeeming mankind and we can have some small share in that. God bless and strengthen you today.

The way I think of it…if we are truly striving to know, love, and serve God, then a spouse we will consider marrying will seem chosen by God because they will naturally mirror our values.
I can say the same for my husband-it does seem like God had a hand, and I used to feel as you do…but in thinking about it, I think we are just paired so well because we were both looking for someone that shared our values and were open to embracing such a person and marriage.

I think the opinion that God has a spouse written in the stars for someone(aka soulmate) can actually be a very dangerous position. This was a big movement in the protestant church in prior years, and there have been a few essays on this, detailing these dangers…

This is a great piece on this: theartinlife.wordpress.com/2013/07/22/my-husband-is-not-my-soul-mate/

At the end of one’s life, with unbearable suffering, I think he/she may be accepting of it but not exclaiming that every minute was worth it. I just cannot imagine that God wants us to be happy with the results of a fallen world.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Thought that would get your attention. I want to bounce around some thoughts and get your insights. I used to tell my family and friends that if you love, know, and serve God, he will call you, show you his Will for you–his master plan for your life. It will fall into place. I don’t believe that anymore, and I feel like it is a very calvinist type thing, yet this is how everyone around me thinks. What changed my view…the past three years our family has experienced horrific devastation. I have had well meaning Catholics tell me that it is a test. A test?! That it is a special blessing to bring us closer to God. !!! That it is awful, but it is part of his plan, which will only make sense to us someday…

and none of this makes sense with what I know about my loving God. He would not use human life for such purposes. I just don’t buy it. So it got me thinking…

I think that God desires good for us. He desires that we follow his commandments, pray, receive the eucharist, do good in His name…I think generally that can be said that he has willed these things for us…and I def think that his plan for us involves going to heaven. Again, that is what he desires for us-for us to join Him there. But specific stuff? No.

Like hand picking whom we marry. Or what profession we have, maybe even down to the job. Or acting like a puppeteer up there, killing or maiming our loved ones to bring about some master purpose in our life.

Where does this belief come from? Most Catholics I speak to tell me that my horrible events in my life are infact part of God’s plan even if I cannot understand it.

While I don’t like God much at times, the reasons for which I’ve elaborated in other posts, the fact remains that if we are going to accept the Book of Job as part of inspired scripture, then he was put to the test as part of a wager between God and the devil.

His family was destroyed, his assets were destroyed, and his health was wrecked.

We might say the devil is responsible. But it’s God who puts him up to it.

Job 1:7-8 “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God and turns away from evil.”

I mean if you deliberately point out your pet favourite to your arch enemy, what’s the certain response?

And then Job became what might be called a proxy war between God and the devil.

In one way that’s the position you’re in. It may not be part of God’s specific plan, but your faith is definitely being tested, in a crucible of suffering.

 

[Bookcat]

It is not so much that God has some “pre-written plan” for one - (some approach things as if that were the case) as if he was foreseeing all -and one just takes ones part on the stage and reads ones lines…

He is outside of time. He not so much “foresees” -as* “sees” *-- all of time is before him - all our decisions etc are all freshly before him. He sees what is for us past and present and future - all as present.

Our choices - are part of things. As are the choices of others around us and circumstances that intersect. As is prayer.

Now can God have a particular person for one to marry? He could. I would say Joseph was picked for Mary. Can God’s providence include in a particular (not permitting but very willed way) manner I marry my wife? Yes sure. It could be. But not necessarily so.

But again it “seen” more than “for-seen”. All time is present before God - all at once.

Let us remember that even in difficult times - Jesus the Good Shepherd loves us and can lead us through the dark paths that we encounter in this pilgrimage - he can carry us on his shoulders. He himself entered in his passion into the sufferings of his sheep. Indeed laid down his life for them.

God can bring good even out of our sins. Let alone out of the sufferings we experience.

In Jesus Christ is our life and hope…even in the midst of apparent darkness he is the light…and the Good Shepherd whom one can give yourself to …to be carried on his shoulders.

Read: Pope Benedict XVI vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20070407_veglia-pasquale_en.html Do not read it quickly --but slowly…

 

[JosieN]

I think your quote illustrates some of the opinions on suffering that i have been met with, and I disagree. Bad things happen even if you are following God’s will. (think Job). We are devout Catholics. We love God. We pray. We love the Mass and go frequently. I can go on…I won’t, lol…its just to say that what has happened to us, well I find it hard to attribute to our lack of faith. I can get real scrupulous if I believed this…“did my son get sick because I prayed the divine office instead of the rosary?” “did my son get sick because I am not more vocal about pro life” See the problem? I know you do not mean to make people like me feel bad, but your statements are very much like Job’s friend’s words are-that we have done something wrong or that if we were just following His will a little bit better, we would not have this tragedy. Turning to God in prayer DOES NOT mean our lives will become good again. I think that is a dangerous statement-saints are a great example-they were martyred despite a heavy prayerful devotion. Saying that God knows what is best for us is flippant when a mother is losing her child or when a woman is raped, etc. It just doesn’t make sense. I think your sentiments illustrate much of what I am talking about.

I agree-I have not and will not lose my faith over it. I love God regardless of my condition. I do think he is still active in the world. I just don’t think he is a puppeteer, especially when talking about the horrible things that happen.

Very well said.

I don’t know what troubles you are having in your life, I only know mine. My husband had a terrible accident 2 years ago and is a quadriplegic and my oldest son has autism (he functions the age of a 5 year old without much useful language.) There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t wonder why me? I believe he knows why and I trust Him. I will pray to Him and ask for guidance and be thankful for what is good in my life. You can believe there is no plan but I don’t believe that. Maybe the plan is that I will help others one day in similar situations. Maybe the plan is to get my husband to start praying. I tell my husband God didn’t let you die because he wants you in Heaven. If our lives are perfect we are not doing much good on earth. Sometimes we need to suffer. Maybe I am wrong. But this makes sense to me.

 

[AP4Him]

I don’t know what troubles you are having in your life, I only know mine. My husband had a terrible accident 2 years ago and is a quadriplegic and my oldest son has autism (he functions the age of a 5 year old without much useful language.) There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t wonder why me? I believe he knows why and I trust Him. I will pray to Him and ask for guidance and be thankful for what is good in my life. You can believe there is no plan but I don’t believe that. Maybe the plan is that I will help others one day in similar situations. Maybe the plan is to get my husband to start praying. I tell my husband God didn’t let you die because he wants you in Heaven. If our lives are perfect we are not doing much good on earth. Sometimes we need to suffer. Maybe I am wrong. But this makes sense to me.

Do you believe that these events were just flukes, permitted by God, but nonetheless totally random, and you have embraced that it is your duty to glorify God through them now, OR

Do you believe that God’s hand himself brought upon these events to fulfill part of his master plan for you that you do not yet understand but are a willing participant in?

I am curious. I just cannot embrace the later position, and I may be wrong as well, but it is hard for me to understand it that way. Yet, I know some feel that way.

 

[JosieN]

Do you believe that these events were just flukes, permitted by God, but nonetheless totally random, and you have embraced that it is your duty to glorify God through them now, OR

Do you believe that God’s hand himself brought upon these events to fulfill part of his master plan for you that you do not yet understand but are a willing participant in?

I am curious. I just cannot embrace the later position, and I may be wrong as well, but it is hard for me to understand it that way. Yet, I know some feel that way.

I don’t know the answer, what I do know is that Jesus gave himself up to be crucified. He knew the good that would come from His suffering. He did this because he loves us. I believe we must follow His example and trust God in every situation. We are going to have crosses in this life and in my opinion we should willingly accept them and offer them to Jesus. Isn’t that what the morning offering prayer is all about? “O my God I offer thee all the prayers, works, joys and sufferings of this day.” Pain is part of life. It is what you do with that pain that matters. I believe God will turn it into something good if we have faith. My husband has a ventilator to breathe with. He is in a care center. I miss him. But I am thankful he is alive. I prayer every day for him to get better and will not give up hope. Horrible things happen. Babies are aborted every day. This is not part of God’s plan. But if it happens to someone you know then ask God for healing and pray for them. My grandmother had 11 children 9 survived. One died shortly after birth, the other died a two years of age from an illness. They were poor and there were no doctors. The baby died at home. People’s faith became stronger in those days because without God’s help they would have not survived the pain. God was there then as He is here now with us.

 

[fred_conty]

I believe he has a plan for each person but not necessarily all the little nuts and bolts that go with that plan.

Jesus once gave the parable about the seed falling on different types of ground. The seed that fell on good ground produced 100%, 60%, or 30%. Which I take that to mean that we do have choices to make; the best, the better, and good. So the choices depend on our generosity.

However he does have central plan and it is important that we find out what that means for us.

But we can pray for good things to happen to us as well. And I believe it important to pray if we want them.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[JosieN]

I agree, maybe a plan is the wrong word. Our life is not mapped out for us. We make decisions along the way that affect us. I think God has a purpose for us not a plan. It is up to us to ask and pray that we know what that purpose is. We must do our best to live our lives as God wants us to live it. It is not easy. It is easier just to do what we want. That is why prayer is so important.

This is one of my favorite prayers

O Christ Jesus,
when all is darkness
and we feel our weakness and helplessness,
give us the sense of Your presence,
Your love, and Your strength.
Help us to have perfect trust
in Your protecting love
and strengthening power,
so that nothing may frighten or worry us,
for, living close to You,
we shall see Your hand,
Your purpose, Your will through all things.

Amen

Saint Ignatius of Loyola: