God doesn’t barter for good behavior but loves unconditionally, pope says

  • Thread starter Thread starter JimR-OCDS
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JimR-OCDS

Guest
VATICAN CITY (CNS) — Salvation has nothing to do with the tidy business of bartering — earning God’s love in return for good behavior, Pope Francis said.
Click to expand...
“If you do well you get a reward; if you do poorly you get punished. This is not the logic of Jesus,” whose ability to love and forgive is unconditional and infinite, the pope said May 11 during his weekly general audience.
Click to expand...
The pope reflected on the Gospel parable of the prodigal son, which teaches everyone is a child of God not because of one’s merits or actions, but because of God’s “unchanging love and ready forgiveness.”
Click to expand...
more…
Click to expand...
Pope Francis is a contemplative, I have no doubt about it. 🙂

Jim
 
It’s not how many understand the Christian life, but I MUCH prefer to rest in these comforting thoughts.
 
Isn’t the attitude Pope Francis speaks of called Jansenism? Or would it be Pelagianism?
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Then how you came up with the idea that the Pope was speaking about Jansenism or Pelagianism seems odd.

Jim
Click to expand...
The attitude he was addressing, that of earning salvation. Just did a quick search and it seems more Pelagian, though with some “Jansenism” influence in the idea of God waiting to smite.
 
TCEL said:
The attitude he was addressing, that of earning salvation. Just did a quick search and it seems more Pelagian, though with some “Jansenism” influence in the idea of God waiting to smite.
Click to expand...
Actually, Pope Francis is addressing the attitude of many Catholics.

Through my 65 years as a Catholic, we were taught about the God who rewards and punishes and how we have to appease him with various acts of religious piety in order to avoid Him sending us into an eternity of torture. Many still hold this attitude and never feel forgiven or God’s mercy. Visit the Spirituality Forum if you doubt me.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Actually, Pope Francis is addressing the attitude of many Catholics.

Through my 65 years as a Catholic, we were taught about the God who rewards and punishes and how we have to appease him with various acts of religious piety in order to avoid Him sending us into an eternity of torture. Many still hold this attitude and never feel forgiven or God’s mercy. Visit the Spirituality Forum if you doubt me.

Jim
Click to expand...
I understand. I learned that a lot of this was because of the influence of Jansenism. Have you heard anything to that effect? I also understand that scruples can be a normal, if derailing, phase of spiritual development. It was true in my own case, anyway.
 
TCEL said:
I understand. I learned that a lot of this was because of the influence of Jansenism. Have you heard anything to that effect? I also understand that scruples can be a normal, if derailing, phase of spiritual development. It was true in my own case, anyway.
Click to expand...
Jansenism was rarely talked about in my adult life and never by the nuns and priests when I was growing up.

I doubt Jansenism was the cause, the heresy was over 400 years ago.

The Church still teaches about a God of reward and punishment in many places.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
we were taught about the God who rewards and punishes and how we have to appease him with various acts of religious piety in order to avoid Him sending us into an eternity of torture.
Click to expand...
Of course, God does reward, and God does punish. Hell, of course, is a very real option.

But I think the Holy Father is simply continuing to place emphasis on the mercy of God, rather than on His justice. Clearly, that is where the Holy Spirit has been guiding the Church over these past decades.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Jansenism was rarely talked about in my adult life and never by the nuns and priests when I was growing up.

I doubt Jansenism was the cause, the heresy was over 400 years ago.

The Church still teaches about a God of reward and punishment in many places.

Jim
Click to expand...
In a documentary about Divine Mercy I learned that St. Therese of Lisieux, and her parents, were affected by Jansenism. There had been resurrections of it after its initial introduction. We don’t usually see our blind-spots.

I figure that heresies tend to recycle themselves in new clothing. It honestly doesn’t surprise me anyway. It’s within our fallen nature to constantly compare ourselves. We’re constantly looking over our shoulder and can’t quite shake that feeling we don’t measure up.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Pope Francis is a contemplative, I have no doubt about it. 🙂

Jim
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting this, 👍 one of the most encouraging things I’ve read today. Based on the parable of the Prodigal Son, Pope Francis tells us:

God only follows the logic of love and mercy - not the mindset of the younger son, who “thought he deserved punishment for his sins,” or of the older son, who "expected a reward for his service."
 
Exsultet said:
Of course, God does reward, and God does punish. Hell, of course, is a very real option.

But I think the Holy Father is simply continuing to place emphasis on the mercy of God, rather than on His justice. Clearly, that is where the Holy Spirit has been guiding the Church over these past decades.
Click to expand...
This is not what Pope John Paul II taught.

He said that God doesn’t send anyone to hell, rather, they go there on their own because they have rejected God.

The reward and punishment God, contradicts a God who loves us unconditionally.

Jim
 
It’s true that God loves us unconditionally, but salvation does have conditions.

Like the prodigal son, we remain dead until we turn to the father. Until we return and confess our sins, we have no life. Once we do, the Father will restore our life. If we refuse to do so, we will be left dead.

And Jesus DOES command us to obey His commands. He expects obedience and good behavior. And He DOES reward us, as He promises to give until overflowing.

It’s a fine line to walk.
 
zz912 said:
It’s true that God loves us unconditionally, but salvation does have conditions.

Like the prodigal son, we remain dead until we turn to the father. Until we return and confess our sins, we have no life. Once we do, the Father will restore our life. If we refuse to do so, we will be left dead.

And Jesus DOES command us to obey His commands. He expects obedience and good behavior. And He DOES reward us, as He promises to give until overflowing.

It’s a fine line to walk.
Click to expand...
And the two commandments Jesus gave us are. love God and your neighbor.

Jim
 
zz912 said:
It’s true that God loves us unconditionally, but salvation does have conditions.

Like the prodigal son, we remain dead until we turn to the father. Until we return and confess our sins, we have no life. Once we do, the Father will restore our life. If we refuse to do so, we will be left dead.

And Jesus DOES command us to obey His commands. He expects obedience and good behavior. And He DOES reward us, as He promises to give until overflowing.

It’s a fine line to walk.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.
If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” He said to him, “Which?” And Jesus said, “You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” The young man said to him, “All these I have observed; what do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.
Click to expand...
Of course some would say Jesus is speaking about greed but as I heard in a very good homily it can refer to any sin which we ‘possess’. And of course the ‘follow me’ includes obeying the teachings of Jesus.
 
johnnyc176 said:
Absolutely.

Of course some would say Jesus is speaking about greed but as I heard in a very good homily it can refer to any sin which we ‘possess’. And of course the ‘follow me’ includes obeying the teachings of Jesus.
Click to expand...
I learned in my bible study that, in Biblical terms, to hear, to love, means to obey. But of course, God doesn’t desire servile obedience, but familial love. But I also thought, in the history of theology, it was taught that God will work even with “imperfect contrition.” Thank God for that. I think that’s a mercy, not a black mark.
 
DaddyGirl said:
Good for the pope! He speaks the truth!

And…what’s a “contemplative” in this context?

.
Click to expand...
A contemplative is a person who has an interior relationship with God, and has experienced His love.

Such a person is transformed to love as Christ loves.

Jim
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top