God forced me into existence

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I find this all very interesting.

Now, I’ve always been taught that God will give you exactly what you have proven you want by your actions (which of course includes acceptance of forgiveness, by far the most important action). Again, Hell is merely the state of being without God. If you don’t exist, you are not with God. So Zatzat’s Hell may very well be nonexistence.

That’s kind of what I was saying before.
 
coolduude said:
And, may I ask, why don’t you believe in God anyway? (by God I mean a neccesary being- not the Christian God).
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A lifetime of trying to believe and receiving silence in return.

There isn’t a shred of evidence that a God, let alone the God of Abraham exists.
 
Marc_Anthony said:
I find this all very interesting.

Now, I’ve always been taught that God will give you exactly what you have proven you want by your actions (which of course includes acceptance of forgiveness, by far the most important action). Again, Hell is merely the state of being without God. If you don’t exist, you are not with God. So Zatzat’s Hell may very well be nonexistence.

That’s kind of what I was saying before.
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Non-existence would be a piece of cake. Eternal suffering in agony, not so much.
 
Zatzat said:
Non-existence would be a piece of cake. Eternal suffering in agony, not so much.
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Eternal suffering and agony is merely a theological position some take as to what Hell will be like. That may very well not be what it actually is.
 
Zatzat said:
A lifetime of trying to believe and receiving silence in return.

There isn’t a shred of evidence that a God, let alone the God of Abraham exists.
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A shame indeed. 😦

But why give up?

Theologically, I think you’re going through a very long Dark Night. In other words, God feels very distant, or even non-existent. But you shouldn’t give up so easily. :o

I challenge you to give faith one more shot. Pray for a week or month straight and listen for the response. If you pray from the heart, and ask with all your heart for the gift of faith, God will oblige.

I challenge you to try it.
 
Many people have already given very good answers to the OP question. I think that Zatzat is viewing salvation not as a choice. You have to remember that God loves us and made us so that we can love him and serve him in this life to be happy in the next. If God let people opt out, he would be like a parent letting their children to eat sweets all the time. God knows what is best for us and that is heaven, if he let us opt out he would not be doing what is best for us because we would be getting rid of our possibility of being eternally perfectly happy. I don’t see why you would rather not exist than have the possibility of eternal happiness. I could only see someone choosing non existence if it was a coin toss as to heaven or hell, which it is not. It is a clear choice that is fully in your control as many have already said. So really, you would chose non existence over eternal happiness!?!?
Zatzat said:
A lifetime of trying to believe and receiving silence in return.

There isn’t a shred of evidence that a God, let alone the God of Abraham exists.
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  1. Since you are an atheist and believe there is no God, then why did you spend a lifetime trying to believe? It would seem that if there was no God, you would have no desire to believe or to try to believe.
  2. There is a lot of evidence for God, and at least a thread of evidence but that’s not what this discussion is about so I’ll not say any more.
 
I’m repeating this as it looks like my buddy Zatzat either missed it, or found it just a little too ‘accurate’ to address . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zatzat forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
God allowed me to come into existence and now forces me to accept him or reject him. I have no choice and God refuses to grant me permission to opt out of his scheme.

I have no choice in the matter, God is forcing my hand.

Oh Zatzat. Honestly, you remind me of a 3 year old whining that Mommy is ‘forcing’ him to eat his dinner and that it is not fair, he would never have chosen zucchini, but if he does not eat it he won’t get dessert. And Mom won’t even let him take a punishment and let him have the dessert. . .he MUST eat the zucchini or else he doesn’t get dessert.

Wah. Totally forced to accept or reject Mom’s ‘arbitrary’ decision on a nasty veggie that he didn’t even choose. So unfair.

Isn’t it strange that a person can be considered ‘forced’ to choose between 2 completely different/opposite choices?

Doesn’t the whole ‘choice’ remove the idea of force when the choices are opposite?

Bliss or not-bliss.

And yet you want ‘nothing?’

Has it not occurred to you that rather than GOD being the one wanting, it might be YOU? I don’t mean this in a nasty way, but it does seem extremely strange for a ‘normal’ human being to hunger for ‘nothingness’ when given the choice to have absolute perfection.

It seems sick enough to reject goodness for evil, but at least, choosing evil is a ‘positive’ act.

Not a negative ‘tantrum’,

I highly doubt that you, Zatzat, at the age of say 3, with Mom putting a cookie in front of you and saying, “Hon, be a good boy and you’ll have a cookie for dessert” would have said, “You’re FORCING me to make a choice! I’ll accept neither having a cookie nor NOT having a cookie. I want to be ‘nothing’ and not be ‘forced’ into somebody else’s choice!!!”
 
Tantum_ergo said:
I highly doubt that you, Zatzat, at the age of say 3, with Mom putting a cookie in front of you and saying, “Hon, be a good boy and you’ll have a cookie for dessert” would have said, “You’re FORCING me to make a choice! I’ll accept neither having a cookie nor NOT having a cookie. I want to be ‘nothing’ and not be ‘forced’ into somebody else’s choice!!!”
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Let’s take your analogy a little further.

Picture a mother and child.

Mom says , ’ either love me or reject me’. If you love me, I’ll make your life very comfortable and shower you with love all the rest of your days!

If you reject me, I’ll give you what you want, my complete absence. I’ll lock you in the basement, turn out the lights and leave you down there forever.

Now that’s a better analogy. 👍
 
Zatzat said:
Let’s take your analogy a little further.

Picture a mother and child.

Mom says , ’ either love me or reject me’. If you love me, I’ll make your life very comfortable and shower you with love all the rest of your days!

If you reject me, I’ll give you what you want, my complete absence. I’ll lock you in the basement, turn out the lights and leave you down there forever.

Now that’s a better analogy. 👍
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Not really. God’s not locking you anywhere. It’s more like Mommy leaving the house and letting the three year old fend for himself when he can’t drive, get a paycheck, hunt, or generally take care of himself in any way. Plus he misses Mommy and wishes he didn’t reject her.

You can see why God would inform us that this is not a good thing.
 
Bummer, Zatzat.
Well, you’re just going to have to figure that out aren’t you?
 
Zatzat said:
I do not believe in any God…not just your God, but all of the Gods.

Yes, when we die, our persons cease and there is nothing left of us, except for a lifeless shell.

I am merely highlighting exactly why your christian story doesn’t make a whole lot of sense…what with our forced existance and forced entry into the salvation lottery.
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So, bottom line is you don’t believe in God, period. This whole post is you just playing with us Christians. You tell us what option you think a sensable “God” should logically give you, if he were real. Since he apparently doesn’t provide the option you want, and since God would not be illogical, he must not be real; but you of course “know” this already. Your disbelief in God is the chosen basis of your life. You are not here to be swayed by anyone. You will let no one convince you otherwise. Heck, you would even presume to tell God what to do (if he existed, yeah, I know). So these’s nothing more for me to say.

But I will pray for you, because of course I love you in all Christian charity, and God answers prayers, in his own way. So be prepared. 😃 Be prepared for just about anything.

Peace, Tim
 
Zatzat said:
Let’s take your analogy a little further.

Picture a mother and child.

Mom says , ’ either love me or reject me’. If you love me, I’ll make your life very comfortable and shower you with love all the rest of your days!

If you reject me, I’ll give you what you want, my complete absence. I’ll lock you in the basement, turn out the lights and leave you down there forever.

Now that’s a better analogy. 👍
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Why am I not surprised? Rather than address MY analogy, Zatzat must ‘tweak’ it and make the artificial parameters to his satisfaction.

And it is not a better analogy–it is you, once again, narrowing the focus only to the point of view that you will ‘accept’ and ignoring anything else. . .
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Why am I not surprised? Rather than address MY analogy, Zatzat must ‘tweak’ it and make the artificial parameters to his satisfaction.

And it is not a better analogy–it is you, once again, narrowing the focus only to the point of view that you will ‘accept’ and ignoring anything else. . .
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It is frustrating indeed, but keep the charity! 👍
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Why am I not surprised? Rather than address MY analogy, Zatzat must ‘tweak’ it and make the artificial parameters to his satisfaction.

And it is not a better analogy–it is you, once again, narrowing the focus only to the point of view that you will ‘accept’ and ignoring anything else. . .
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You’re analogy didn’t fit. Just because you create an analogy, doesn’t mean it makes sense with regards to the discussion we’re having.

Don’t let my tweaking make you feel bad. However, now you can see it is an most excellent analogy that clearly outlines how unreasonable and dare I say, cruel it is for God to give those two choices.
 
Ignatius said:
Maybe concented at the moment of your conception and forgot!
Your reply is speculation, not proof.
Once again, show proof of that absurd contention or admit you have none!
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Show me the proof that your God exists or admit that he doesn’t! 🤷
 
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