God if this city for Mass

[Corki]

For inspiration, you could go to the Life Teen official website and look at suggested songs for the aforementioned week’s liturgy and you’ll see a lovely song called “God of this City” reccommended.

Life Teen is not a magesterial authority. It does not have the power to approve music for Mass. That power lies with the Bishops.

Finally, music should not have the ability to distract us from mass, only add to it. If it does distract, it suggests a lack of focus or inability to concentrate on the blessed gift of the Mass, which is unfortunate.

You are right it **should **not. But unfortunately it often does. It may be a personal failing but it is more often a failure to have music that fulfills its purpose in the litugy. As one of the documents of Vatican II put it,

Therefore sacred music is to be considered the more holy in proportion as it is more closely connected with the liturgical action, whether it adds delight to prayer, fosters unity of minds, or confers greater solemnity upon the sacred rites.

If the music is not doing that, or worse doing something opposed to that, it is not the parishioners’ fault if there is distration.

 

[Moore11]

First of all, I’ve never heard of the song “God if this City” before, it sounds grammatically nonsensical. How dare this progressive play such nonsense!

Second, perhaps you could post a line-up of music for mass of songs and mass parts that you feel appropriate and get back to us. For inspiration, you could go to the Life Teen official website and look at suggested songs for the aforementioned week’s liturgy and you’ll see a lovely song called “God of this City” reccommended. Or if you don’t approve of the suggestion provided by Life Teen, the organization of which your mass is named after, you could write a few songs of your own, perform and record them, and then post them here. I’m sure you could sell your record to all those previous commenters.

Finally, music should not have the ability to distract us from mass, only add to it. If it does distract, it suggests a lack of focus or inability to concentrate on the blessed gift of the Mass, which is unfortunate.

Welcome to the forums.
One of the things that makes CAF so nice is the ability for most posters to remain charitable and friendly. The Mass in question is not a “Life Teen” Mass per se but rather a Mass that is geared to the youth. (which I am not sure is a good idea to gear a Mass to an age group that is by nature a small percentage of the population it seems rather exclusionary but that is another issue.)
But I wish to address your points.

1. I think your first point was sarcasm. So I will only add that I love God of this City and think it is a wonderful song. I also take issue with the idea of “how dare this progressive play this nonsense.” He is a good person who played a good song that is probably not appropriate. That is it.
2. There are so many wonderful places to find music that is liturgically appropriate and moving. We have over 2000 years of liturgical music and if you are acquainted with music at all you will note that some of the most moving and famous pieces of music are from Catholic musicians through our the history of our Church. Which brings us to the heart of the problem. One could not really argue that the music of 2012’s top 20 Christian artists is liturgically appropriate much less great music. But as always that is a matter of taste and not fact. What we do have is guidence from Holy Mother Church about what liturgical music is and what it is not. I think the music choosers and the Deciders should really contemplate what the Church is wanting to provide.
   On these forums you will find many threads and even running threads about what music is being played for Masses all over the world. You should check some of the selections out!
3. I would happily come up with a list of songs and work with the music group. I have a real passion for it and sadly God did not grace me with the ability to sing or play an instrument, but it is something that I am passionate about. The problem is that at many parishes only 1 or 2 people make the decisions. And as you can see from the thread only one opinion counts. But I do recognize the need put up or shut up and a critic is no help if they have no answers. So I wish to point out that I would gladly pick the music for Mass and yes, I realize others would not like it. That is part of the way life works.
   But, and this is a whole 'nother can of worms, If the Mass is the sacrifice of Jesus and the Eucharist really is transubstantiation then who better than Catholic liturgical musicians to understand the Mass and add to it with the Church’s approval. We all need to be patient as we try to figure out post concillar issues. This era is a relative infant in the life of the Church and we are all trying to adjust.
4. And this is where I will open up and get a little personal. On it’s face yes, your point is valid, Nothing should distract us from the Mass. But that is why the Church’s guidelines for music are so wise. Silence before Mass has been replaced with a rehearsal for the music group. Songs that point to inner peace and contemplation have been replaced by a drum set and a christian rock concert. And while the most Holy of Holy people should be able to concentrate on the Mass even at the sound of bombs and bullets overhead, the Music of the Mass should point to one thing, and that one thing is the Sacrifice of the Eucharist and Our Lord. I hope you are not suggesting that I am less of a Catholic because some of the musical experimentation is distracting. Life is distracting and I will be the first to admit that at Mass my focus needs to be on the Eucharist and the Sacrifice. But so should the music. In fact ESPECIALLY the Music and if I were part of ANY part of the Church I would be concerned if my methods were driving people away from the focus of the Mass. Remember we are Catholic and we are all one body, one body in Christ. So while it is my job to focus on the Mass and I need to do that better, it should be all our jobs to help each other do that.

 

[Moore11]

Second, perhaps you could post a line-up of music for mass of songs and mass parts that you feel appropriate and get back to us. For inspiration, you could go to the Life Teen official website and look at suggested songs for the aforementioned week’s liturgy and you’ll see a lovely song called “God of this City” reccommended. Or if you don’t approve of the suggestion provided by Life Teen, the organization of which your mass is named after, you could write a few songs of your own, perform and record them, and then post them here. I’m sure you could sell your record to all those previous commenters.
.

As for Mass parts, no one should be doing what you suggest. We have the GIRM and that is what should be followed. That is why we have it.

As far as music is concerned for inspiration I like to go to the great minds of the Church, the Fathers and Saints and especially the Holy Father Benedict XVI. When he wrote in a document called Sacramentum Caritas:

1. In the ars celebrandi, liturgical song has a pre-eminent place. (126) Saint Augustine rightly says in a famous sermon that “the new man sings a new song. Singing is an expression of joy and, if we consider the matter, an expression of love” (127). The People of God assembled for the liturgy sings the praises of God. In the course of her two-thousand-year history, the Church has created, and still creates, music and songs which represent a rich patrimony of faith and love. This heritage must not be lost. Certainly as far as the liturgy is concerned, we cannot say that one song is as good as another. Generic improvisation or the introduction of musical genres which fail to respect the meaning of the liturgy should be avoided. As an element of the liturgy, song should be well integrated into the overall celebration (128). Consequently everything – texts, music, execution – ought to correspond to the meaning of the mystery being celebrated, the structure of the rite and the liturgical seasons (129). Finally, while respecting various styles and different and highly praiseworthy traditions, I desire, in accordance with the request advanced by the Synod Fathers, that Gregorian chant be suitably esteemed and employed (130) as the chant proper to the Roman liturgy (131).

It seems to me that this is deeper and wiser than the standards being imposed currently.

 

[hope_7]

I am a musician and I believe what you say is true. I would like to know more of the catholic music that really does help one to focus on Christ and helps to bring one into the true worship of our Lord and Saviour.

So many times we christians think that this song or style of music is the correct one or what songs we should do or the way it is supposed to be done. We come with what we plan to do and it is about us and what we like.

I know that I am so guilty of this.

I just want so much to know what God wants and to play and sing that to Him.

I want to truely minister to Him by giveing Him what He wants.

I am sure that it would not be the same thing or the same way all the time. He may want something differant the next time. I want to be so open to that and have such a repatore of songs that I could give Him anything that He would want at any time.

 

[superamazingman]

For inspiration, you could go to the Life Teen official website and look at suggested songs for the aforementioned week’s liturgy and you’ll see a lovely song called “God of this City” reccommended.

And that same website in the past has suggest the changing of the dismissal of the Mass from the texts of the missal. That doesn’t make it right.

 

[JHow]

…I actually disagreed with the use of Latin in the Mass, and this is one point where the music director and I compromised. Jesus didn’t speak Latin…so…anyway, that would start a whole new thread and get us off track…

So, you were advocating for hymns in Aramaic? This is what poker players call a “tell”.

 

[ajaxbogs]

Yeah, the traditional one. People have mentioned more than once on this thread that there’s more older people at the contemporary Masses…

Every youth mass I’ve attended has had contemporary music. Of course there are a higher percentage of youth at these masses, than the traditional mass. Now if you think a more traditional mass would help keep post-confirmed youth and young adults practicing their faith, you’re entitled to that opinion. I totally disagree from what I’ve seen in the Church.

I am NOT saying that simply changing mass music will stop the “exodus”, but we need to look “outside the box” of our “traditional” norms, yet stay within the teachings of the Church. I applaud clergy who look at it from that aspect.

 

[Corki]

So, you were advocating for hymns in Aramaic? This is what poker players call a “tell”.

Well at least he would have to get rid of hymns in English since it didn’t even exist as a language in Jesus’ time.

 

[Moore11]

Just an update. For anyone interested.
Mass tonight was very nice. There was silence before Mass, There were no added words in the Great Amen. It was 1 guitar and 3 nice voices.
While we could argue the orthodoxy of the music till the cows come home: the music selections were contemplative and nice though they were still Life Teen and contemporary adoration songs they sounded nice. Hey, I dont expect Rome to be built in a day and I dont know if it was coincidence or not but the Mass tonight was aided by the music.

 

[Moore11]

I am NOT saying that simply changing mass music will stop the “exodus”, but we need to look “outside the box” of our “traditional” norms, yet stay within the teachings of the Church. I applaud clergy who look at it from that aspect.

I think conventional wisdom is pointing to the opposite. The experimentation with the Mass that happened in the last 40 years is waning. And it is no coincidence that the “exodus” you speak of is linked to the “outside of the box” gimmicks that have been proven failures.
The Mass and orthodoxy always has been and always will be sufficient.

 

[Koopa]

In response to the OP, I don’t think you should take it as a trivial issue at all. The Church considers music a “necessary or integral part” of the liturgy. And it is absolutely essential that this conversation take place in charity. Parties on both sides of the debate about proper liturgical music have experienced great frustrations at times, and it is a sign of our frail human nature that these frustrations have at times clouded out the love that is meant to accompany all of our words.

An important concept to remember about the liturgy is that it is the action of Christ. The liturgy is the perfect worship revealed by God. On our own, we do not know how to worship Him perfectly. Pope Benedict brings this out in his Spirit of the Liturgy, pointing to the words of Moses to Pharaoh, who had just agreed that the Israelite men may leave Egypt, but without their wives and cattle. Moses objects, saying, “we do not know with what we must serve the LORD until we arrive there” (Ex. 10:26). As sinful men, we cannot expect to know what the Lord desires of our worship unless he tells us.

This takes particular significance with regard to liturgical music. Through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the Church has indeed come to a greater knowledge through the centuries of right worship, through pondering upon the Word of God as revealed in Scripture and Tradition. What She proposes to us through the words of our Popes, the teaching of the magisterium, and Church documents ought to be received with the utmost reverence. The Church is entrusted with the Gospel of Christ, with true knowledge of the Father’s will.

We know, then, that our choice of music at mass cannot be reduced to a decision of personal taste. As the OP pointed out in the comments of our Holy Father, some music is of greater unity with action of the liturgy, and not all music is equally befitting of the sacrifice. In the Church’s great wisdom, which has grown through prayer throughout her 2000 year history, Gregorian Chant has been given the place of the most perfect liturgical music. The sacred music of the Church is “is a treasure of inestimable value, greater even than that of any other art,” one that “She has jealously guarded for centuries.” This has been reiterated by every Pope since St. Pius X, especially in regard to the appropriateness of any form of liturgical music, which is said to grow more and more perfect the more closely it is an image of Gregorian Chant.

This does not exclude other forms of music from the mass, but if we consider Chant as that most perfect exemplar, it becomes clear that some music is far from ideal. In all things, we must remember that the liturgy is a gift from God, and not of our own creation. In the words of our Holy Father, then Cardinal Ratzinger, “Man himself cannot simply ‘make’ worship. If God does not reveal himself, man is clutching empty space.” With humility and reverence, we should always strive to sing with the unity of the voice of Christ, the voice that we understand only through the teaching of His Church.

 

[superamazingman]

We must also not forget the other measuring rule the church gives us: the closer a piece of music is from chant and polyphony, the more suitable it is for the sacred liturgy. The further it is, the less suitable. (I’ll try and find the document it is from and provide a citation, but I do know that is what it says, so just take my word for it).

Can anyone honestly say this piece sounds *anything *like chant or sacred polyphony?

 

[ajaxbogs]

And it is no coincidence that the “exodus” you speak of is linked to the “outside of the box” gimmicks that have been proven failures.

REALLY? Being raised in a Protestant, non-denominational environment, I have come across dozens (if not over a hundred) fallen away Catholics who joined those ranks. A major reason given for leaving the faith - the masses are DEAD. They HATED going to mass & met Jesus in a meaningful way in another Christian stream. Music was a big part of it. I don’t recall any saying they left because it was too “unorthodox”.

As I often explain to these “fallen away”, insights into the mass, it becomes apparent they were poorly taught about the faith. Now if “gimmicks” were a part of this deficiency, I could agree with your point. Poor catechesis (esp. the family church) yes; non-traditional masses? Really?

 

[Moore11]

REALLY? Being raised in a Protestant, non-denominational environment, I have come across dozens (if not over a hundred) fallen away Catholics who joined those ranks. A major reason given for leaving the faith - the masses are DEAD. They HATED going to mass & met Jesus in a meaningful way in another Christian stream. Music was a big part of it. I don’t recall any saying they left because it was too “unorthodox”.

As I often explain to these “fallen away”, insights into the mass, it becomes apparent they were poorly taught about the faith. Now if “gimmicks” were a part of this deficiency, I could agree with your point. Poor catechesis (esp. the family church) yes; non-traditional masses? Really?

I think the debate bigger than that. I think that yes, the protestant churches can be superficially and aesthetically pleasing but that is so empty. That is not what the Church should ever focus on. I cannot recall a time in history when so many Catholics have left. And it seems to coincide with the post concilliar confusion that happened. Happy clappy is empty. It is like the porn of religion. It is a hollow substinance for the real thing for authentic feeding. Many of the orthodox Masses are full of youth and many “teen” Masses are full of baby boomers.
The time for experimentation is past and has failed. Our Church, Our Pope and God himself is calling us to come home.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

It’s a nice song.

I wonder why we can’t have a middle ground. In other words, let the Mass be the Mass and then if one wants to appeal to youth or those who like this type of music, then have concerts or play this music during youth group meetings or church picnics?

Because that would make sense, and we can’t have that now, can we?

I’m also going to confess something, I don’t hate all the bad music that’s played during Masses these days. I just hate it in Mass because it doesn’t belong at Mass and detracts from what the Mass is. My iPod is full of Carey Landry, and the St. Louis Jesuits., etc and I sing along to it all the time when I’m driving. It’s better than singing along to Lady Gaga, or whomever else all the teenagers are listening to these days.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say something I never thought I would say. On Eagles Wings would actually be an improvement to that song. At least Eagles Wings is based on scripture and can give you something substantial to meditate on.

 

[superamazingman]

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say something I never thought I would say. On Eagles Wings would actually be an improvement to that song. At least Eagles Wings is based on scripture and can give you something substantial to meditate on.

It’s text is actually quite close to psalm 91. The main problem with it’s liturgical use is the music, not the text. The text lines up line by line with much of psalm 91, in fact. Check it out. Left is the lyrics, and right is the appropriate part of the psalm. You’ll note that it not only lines up almost line by line with the psalm, but it also doesn’t break up the psalm either, other than the refrain.

justpaste.it/eagle-wings-comparison

 

[SaintPatrick333]

Personally I’m not a fan of contemporary anything in the Mass. I’m more traditional in that regard. I’d rather my Parish have gregorian chant than the music we have lol. But sadly that will probably never happen again tear

 

[superamazingman]

Personally I’m not a fan of contemporary anything in the Mass. I’m more traditional in that regard. I’d rather my Parish have gregorian chant than the music we have lol. But sadly that will probably never happen again tear

me too

 

[Moore11]

me too

Me too.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

It’s text is actually quite close to psalm 91. The main problem with it’s liturgical use is the music, not the text. The text lines up line by line with much of psalm 91, in fact. Check it out. Left is the lyrics, and right is the appropriate part of the psalm. You’ll note that it not only lines up almost line by line with the psalm, but it also doesn’t break up the psalm either, other than the refrain.

justpaste.it/eagle-wings-comparison

In the 1962 Missal it’s Psalm 90 and the gradual for the first Sunday in Lent. It’s quite long when sung in Gregorian Chant. When I was reading it I quickly noticed it was the Eagle’s Wings of the EF Mass.