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e_c
Guest
Friends, apologies, but I will be a bit delayed in my promised post.
In the meantime, I recommend a nice, thorough reading of Questions 2 through 6 of the Prima Pars. That’s where it will be coming from. My hope is simply to synthesize the ideas and throw in a few examples of getting it all wrong.
In the meantime, I recommend a nice, thorough reading of Questions 2 through 6 of the Prima Pars. That’s where it will be coming from. My hope is simply to synthesize the ideas and throw in a few examples of getting it all wrong.
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BobCatholic
Guest
If what we need is outside of his will, then game over, ain’t happening.
I’ve prayed a lot of times for things I need (and I know the difference between needs and wants!) and never got them.
That’s right. it is either God’s way or the highway.
Just because people want him to be a vending machine means he is a vending machine.
He clearly is not one. There is nothing I can give God that will convince him to provide anything I need.
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Solmyr
Guest
But people follow the words of Jesus, who said: “Whatever you ask in my name will be fulfilled, because I will go to the father”.
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PRmerger
Guest
This is patently false.
here are a number of things which follow from a lack of belief in God:
-no belief in the afterlife
-no responsibility to anyone for harm you inflict that no one sees
-no “oughts”. That is, no moral obligations.
-no foundation for morality
…to name a few.
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PRmerger
Guest
Oh! And I just realized I forgot the Biggie. The Elephant in the Room. The slam-dunk. The “trump card” (as Richard Dawkins intones): you have no answer to the question, “Why is there something rather than nothing?”
Also, it necessarily follows that atheism has no answer for “How did the universe come to be?”
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Solmyr
Guest
Not true.
Lack of belief in the Christian God allows one to believe in some other “gods”.
Some atheists believe in some kind of “afterlife”.
There are people who believe in reincarnation, and they do not believe in “God”.
There are humanists, who believe in social responsibilities.
Morality is not a Christian “invention”. The “golden rules” were misappropriated from the societies which predated Christianity by hundreds and thousands of years.
Better check out the facts before you press the “Submit” button. And get off your high horse.
Neither “compassion”, nor the “lack of compassion” follows from atheism. Looks like you are one of those misguided people who think that atheists are all irresponsible “monsters”, who only refrain from committing atrocities because they are afraid to be “SEEN”. Very simplistic…
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PRmerger
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Solmyr
Guest
Which part of “SOME” atheists don’t you understand?So you believe in an afterlife, despite your atheism?
Really?
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PRmerger
Guest
Yes. They believe in “shoulds”.
But they cannot assert any “oughts”.
And that’s what I asserted (please see my original post).
Yes. You are very Catholic when you say this.
Our Scriptures state that you have the law written in your heart.
Careful, Sol. It is good for you to be here and in dialogue with knowledgeable Catholics, so it would be a shame for you to be banned or suspended.Better check out the facts before you press the “Submit” button. And get off your high horse.
sigh.
Before you make such an uninformed statement, perhaps you should do some more research.
I have always asserted that atheists can be moral people. I would rather have some atheists have my back than some Christians.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13171248&postcount=47
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9942333&postcount=60
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10929728&postcount=29
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10306590&postcount=62
So, please do a bit more reading before you post something so easily refuted.
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oldcelt
Guest
So. according to your beliefs…we are creatures who are totally controlled by the creator? Or, do we control our own destiny? If not…we are puppets, playing on the strings of an unseen deity.
I, cannot accept that…based on what I have observed throughout my 58 years. The Deist creator had allowed creation to continue, without intervention, IMHO. If I am correct, does that eliminate the possibility of an afterlife?
Probably, with some possibilities related more to science (nature) than the supernatural.
John
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PRmerger
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Oh, and Solmyr? I cannot be more gleeful than I am right now, posting this,*** which was in a thread which you contributed to.***
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13626456&postcount=523
AND!!! BONUS!!
I just saw that you posted immediately after that post!
#rememberingwhatyoureadinthepastisquitehelpful
(And I hope this subverted any response that you were going to make in the genre of, “I can’t know what you post in threads I haven’t participated in.”)
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Lucretius
Guest
St. Maria Goretti was a child who died rather horribly…yet I don’t think you would see her death…the evils that she experienced…as an example of the kind of evil the AFE requires. Neither do you see the unjust torture of Jesus as an example of this kind of evil…in fact, it seems almost laughable to us Christ’s suffering as a definite proof that there isn’t a God…hahahagiggle…so how can you claim that horrid deaths in themselves are evils that cannot be order to good, that is, those evils we call gratuitous evils?
What if you explain to a twelve year old, who was raped and tortured, that her suffering is the reason you stopped going to church, and she responds by telling you to stop being naughty and go to confession? What would you do? Could your argument from evil still use her suffering as justification?
Christi pax,
Lucretius
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PRmerger
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Actually, I amend this. Humanists who “believe in social responsibility” can assert some “I feel it’s better for society to…” but they cannot assert any “shoulds or oughts”.
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PRmerger
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Yes, and this prompts another thing that necessarily follows from atheism, besides a simple lack of belief in God…
the atheist has no answer to these questions, “Daddy, why did a 12 year old get raped and tortured?” “Why did my cousin die of cancer?” “Why did that tsunami kill thousands of innocent children?”
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Bradski
Guest
Social responsibility IS better for society. Unless there is an argument that contradicts that statement, then one should be socially responsible.
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PRmerger
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And what if there’s a person who says that he doesn’t care about what’s better for society? It’s better for HIM to rape this woman.
The atheist simply has to say, “I guess you’re right”.
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PRmerger
Guest
Using “it’s better for society, therefore it’s moral” is a very ominous paradigm.
“Genocide is better for our society” says Tribe A.
“Killing those who can’t contribute is better for our society” says Tribe B.
“Executing those who disagree with our leader is better for our society” says Tribe C.
#chilling
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Bradski
Guest
Did someone say that? You said social responsibility. I repeated what you said. I’ve assumed that you think social responsibility is a good thing. I agree with you.
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