God is not all good

[Earnest_Bunbury]

… and to impugn the motives of those who seek honest and coherent answers cannot possibly be anything other than a method of projecting the fear of acknowledging the truth of this.

This is what I impugn:

I give you a good argument for** why I do not consider that God is Just.**

and

God doing the** obvious Evil things described in the Old testament like:
KILLING FREAKING BABIES!**

and

WHy is God OK in doing all this despicable, Ruthless, and plain EVIL things???

These denotes a preconceived bias, rebuking God, in my opinion. If one wants answers, look for answers. If one wants to berate people, then post things like this:

**
Is that the best you’ve got?? Is that the best you can do? giving answers that are circular and beg the questions??
You’ve got to try harder than that!
When you can come up with better arguments then, by all means let me hear them. Other wise I advise you take time and think before you post!

What are you ready, like 5 years old?** Don’t you have to be certain age to post in here?
You do not need to post if you do not have a good argument. You can read and learn. BY all means, if you, or anyone else reading this can come up with better arguments, I will be happy to think about them and give my best honest response.
I honestly am not sure if you are being childish on purpose or are really serious about the whole thing. It is hard for me to believe that your whole arguemts amount to plain circular arguemt, Begging the question argument, and a silly appeal to persecution and martyr syndrome.
Other that you have not given me anything decent to reply to!
If you want, just give the opportunity to other people who might want to seriously contribute to this discussion forum.
Maybe this might be a joke for you, but I am seriously trying to get to the bottom of things here.
Seriously ready, stop wasting my time, or come up with something better.

If one thinks the Church has swept this under the rug and that all Catholics are fearful of the question of the God of the Old Testament, such as the Marcionite heresy,newadvent.org/cathen/09645c.htm,one is as wrong as those who berate God.

Answers can be found if seriously looking:

**There’s a third thing. It pertains to the challenge, “If God were really good, how could He do such a thing? How could He destroy these innocent people? This is barbaric.” They take this record of God’s judgment as evidence that the God of the Bible isn’t really good at all, and therefore should not be believed in.

I approach it from a different direction. I think the preponderance of evidence from the same historical record–the Old Testament-- is that God is good. He continually demonstrates not just his holiness, but also His patience and forbearance for those that consistently rebel against Him, though He has graciously cared for them.

This gives us good reason to trust Him. And if we have good reason to trust Him, then when we see things that seem to go against our sense of goodness and justice, it seems only fair to give the benefit of the doubt to God, who just might know something more than we know.

When we were children, our own parents acted in ways we didn’t understand. We didn’t think their decisions were fair. Later we learned that, for the most part, they had insight and information unavailable to us that influenced their decisions. Many times we learned that they were acting in our best interests after all, though we didn’t see it at the time.

These are the kind of things we discover as we grow up. We learn that our parents were right most of the times we thought they were off base. The same kind of hindsight is true with God. God may know a few things we don’t know.**

It takes humility to accept the answer and arrogance to rebuke God.

str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5439
or
rationalchristianity.net/genocide.html

 

[SanctusEnigma40]

Dear Earnest Bunbury,

You are upset because the answer that you are giving fails miserably. You are still pretending to read the passage as an historical, literal record and Justify God for what he did, which in my view is simply unjustifiable.
Earnest Bunbury:

historical record–the Old Testament-- is that God is good. He continually demonstrates not just his holiness…

You are just giving me more Bunk, like most people posting in this forum, and judge me because I do not accept your bunk.

Just because the bunk you believe makes sense to you, it doesn’t make it right or true.

God is simply not Justify in Killing the innocent if we keep reading the passages like this.

Ernest, you come across to me as the same kind of inquisitor that will burn me to death if we were having this conversation a few centuries back from now.

You will have the pleasure to burn me alive at the stake. I am sure of that.

Now since all you can do is keep offering the same type of cookie cutter bunk arguments to answer my questions, and you cannot come with nothing more, I suggest that you stop posting here.

You obviously run out of good sound arguments. Your classical answers simply fail and you are upset. You are just frustrated because I do not buy your answer and you really were expecting me to yield by the force of your argument. But your argument really sucks!

And this is why you are so upset, condeming, judgemental, and frustrated.

Your way of thinking is: I have the truth, and I believe it, and everybody that do not believe like me are wrong, and My arguments have to be correct, otherwise why would I believe what I believe.

So in me rejecting your arguments, you feel threatened, because it reflects back on you!

You feel that upset because maybe the reason you have for believing what you do are not even good reason for your faith.

Now, maybe your believe in God is correct, and even your religion is the correct one. But still, maybe the reasons that lead you to have have your faith are incorrect.

You know, you can end up believing in the correct thing, but for the incorrect reasons, or by faulty reasoning, or by not so good arguments. In other words, you got lucky. BUt I do not want to believe in the correct thing by just plain luck. For people like me, that wont do. I need arguments that are reasonable.

I am honestly looking for an answer here, because I want to believe in God, and I want to be able to worship HIM. At this moment, Even if God appears to me in person, I will not be able to love Him.

Why? Because I think He is not worthy of my worship.

I can be thankful to Him for giving me life, Sure. But I will be inceinsire in worshiping Him, because when I read all the atrocities He made in the Old testament, the hairs in the back of my neck rise in horror.

He is clearly bloody, cruel, vindictive, unmerciful, short fused, and more, much more.

Now, maybe, just maybe, there might be a way to correctly interpret this verses in other light, that might make sense of all of this, because when I think of God, I think of a guy who is preach to me (By people like you) as : Long Suffering, Slow to Anger, Great on Mercy, All Good, who will chastise and correct an punish, but for correction purposes, as a Loving Father, not as an Evil Demonic Bloodthirsty God.

Now a God like this, I can believe and Worship, but a God like the one you are presenting me is just having issues with Multiple personality disorder, and schizophrenia.

And this is why your explanations so far are found lacking, and quite frankly they really stink.

 

[SanctusEnigma40]

But you, instead of being humble and asking me why do you feel that the answer that i am giving you fails, You go on a personal rampage and vendetta against me (as though God is watching you, and proud of you for kicking my behind), because you feel that the answers that you have consistently giving to me, should have satisfied me, and i should have yield from your first post.

So, who is the proud and arrogant person here?

I am here telling you, you answer is not good enough. Is is just proving an schysofrenic GOD in heaven out of meds, that also have serious multiple personality disorder.

Now I desperately want to believe in God, and go back to the Catholic Church, since i have tried many denominations in the protestant churches in the past, and I find them lacking too. The whole “sola scriptura” doesn’t cut it for me because it just brings so much confusion and endless denominations, because they simply do not understand that Scripture is not subject to personal interpretatin. You need the Authority of the Catholic Church and the tradition of the Early fatheres to really nail the correct interpretation.

I have much to critisize about Protestant denominations that I have been, but this is not the place and time for it.

All you need to know for now is that I really will love to come back to the Catholic Church and be saved, and participate with all the Holy sacraments and all.

My problem right now is that I find the God of the Old Testament way too Evil and Cruel.

And I have been trying to get a good answer here for this, and All I get is people like you that are the most judgmental, harsh, unkind, and arrogant. You get so pissed because I am telling you, your arguments are not cutting it. The way you want to explain these verses away are not good.

Now, here come along Angels Unaware and brings a good argument finally that i am intrested in following because it is starting to make sense, and Here you are all upset because you wanted that “Your Answer” would have been the one that would have made me yield!

If I am not satisfied with the answer that you provided, then I must be hell bent, just looking for controversy!
In your opinion then I must be an insincere Hell bent Atheist who just want to give everyone here a hard time. And all of this because i do not like your answer and tell you in your face that your arguments really stink and are not cutting it.

Dear Ernest, you go ahead and keep condeming and critisize me. I don’t mind.

I do not have much time to keep answering to your rant about how insincere i am, because I am now going to be busy comunicating privately with Angel Unsecure trying to understand her views on how to correctly see these verses so I can have what I am really looking for, and you have been unable so far to provide me with all your zealousness and lack of good answers that you copy and pasted from somewhere else. I am not even sure that you realize how bad your arguments are since they are the bad arguments from somebody else.

You keep pounding me, because my father taught me long time ago that when you look for the truth you have to be willing to endure harsh criticism. He told me that I will need to have Thick Skin. Now I understand what he meant.

Go ahead Earnest, and all of the people in this Forum that think like Earnest, and have the same attitude like Him. Keep pounding me.

I will be OK if I find my answer, and I really couldn’t care less what you think of me, or what you think my motives are.

Have Fun all of you!

I will be back in here once I have talked extensively with Angels Unaware.

Regards,

SanctusEnigma40

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Dear Earnest Bunbury,

You are upset because the answer that you are giving fails miserably. You are still pretending to read the passage as an historical, literal record and Justify God for what he did, which in my view is simply unjustifiable.

You are just giving me more Bunk, like most people posting in this forum, and judge me because I do not accept your bunk.

I am far from upset, your projections are incorrect. You are free to accept or reject everything posted and I am nor have I ever judged you. I judge your arguments and accusations as immature and arrogant. God will judge us, I judge the rationality of the statements posted.

God is simply not Justify in Killing the innocent if we keep reading the passages like this

What did you think of these links:str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5439
rationalchristianity.net/genocide.html Again, it isn’t about me, you are free to judge me as you wish as well as reject God, but to rebuke Him is not helpful to your spiritual well being.

Ernest, you come across to me as the same kind of inquisitor that will burn me to death if we were having this conversation a few centuries back from now.

You will have the pleasure to burn me alive at the stake. I am sure of that

.

This is unfair as well as being immature. The same judgment you rashly make regarding God is now leveled toward me, someone you have not met. Why do you make such horrible accusations? This is untenable and I believe may be contrary to the rules of this forum.

Now since all you can do is keep offering the same type of cookie cutter bunk arguments to answer my questions, and you cannot come with nothing more, I suggest that you stop posting here.

As far as you are concerned, this is my last post.

You obviously run out of good sound arguments. Your classical answers simply fail and you are upset. You are just frustrated because I do not buy your answer and you really were expecting me to yield by the force of your argument. But your argument really sucks!

I stand corrected?

And this is why you are so upset, condeming, judgemental, and frustrated.

Your way of thinking is: I have the truth, and I believe it, and everybody that do not believe like me are wrong, and My arguments have to be correct, otherwise why would I believe what I believe.

God is Good is backed up by philosophy going back many millennia.

So in me rejecting your arguments, you feel threatened, because it reflects back on you!

This is turned back on you because I reject your premise, not you.

You feel that upset because maybe the reason you have for believing what you do are not even good reason for your faith.

You could be lashing out because of a lack of faith.

You know, you can end up believing in the correct thing, but for the incorrect reasons, or by faulty reasoning, or by not so good arguments. In other words, you got lucky. BUt I do not want to believe in the correct thing by just plain luck. For people like me, that wont do. I need arguments that are reasonable.

I am honestly looking for an answer here, because I want to believe in God, and I want to be able to worship HIM. At this moment, Even if God appears to me in person, I will not be able to love Him.

Why? Because I think He is not worthy of my worship.

I can be thankful to Him for giving me life, Sure. But I will be inceinsire in worshiping Him, because when I read all the atrocities He made in the Old testament, the hairs in the back of my neck rise in horror.

He is clearly bloody, cruel, vindictive, unmerciful, short fused, and more, much more.

Now, maybe, just maybe, there might be a way to correctly interpret this verses in other light, that might make sense of all of this, because when I think of God, I think of a guy who is preach to me (By people like you) as : Long Suffering, Slow to Anger, Great on Mercy, All Good, who will chastise and correct an punish, but for correction purposes, as a Loving Father, not as an Evil Demonic Bloodthirsty God.

Now a God like this, I can believe and Worship, but a God like the one you are presenting me is just having issues with Multiple personality disorder, and schizophrenia.

And this is why your explanations so far are found lacking, and quite frankly they really stink.

You are free to believe and judge according to your view of things. It is my contention that your view is askew because of the way you judge and accuse. Please review the links and take heart in Rev 3:16: “So that you are lukewarm, I will vomit you out of My mouth”. You are definitely not lukewarm. This is good, for now. Peace be with you.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Due to excessive vitriol, sarcasm, and declining charity, this thread is now closed.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

Has this been reopened?(Normally it will say “Closed” where this says “Post Reply” which is why I’m confused.)

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Let it die.

 

[IrishJoe]

Why let it die. There are some good statements and discussions occuring. It doesn’t seem that vitriolic. Why not just warn those that are causing the problem rather than close a thread which is clearly touching a nerve?

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Why let it die. There are some good statements and discussions occuring. It doesn’t seem that vitriolic. Why not just warn those that are causing the problem rather than close a thread which is clearly touching a nerve?

Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics
Why was your God in the OT so bloodthirsty?

Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture
Bible verses that show God is mean

I can’t seem to link these but you can find them by using Search or just looking in the particular forum and scrolling to the thread.

I wanted this to die due to it being beaten to death. All these posts and the gentleman who started these is not satisfied. It was my contention early on that it was a troll to get people to question their faith. After I was told I was the type of person to burn someone at the stake, I bowed out. These threads indicated can give you a sense of the argument for God being unworthy of your worship. ENJOY

 

[SanctusEnigma40]

Earnest Bumbury:

After I was told I was the type of person to burn someone at the stake, I bowed out.

You just blew out because i told you like it is. The force of your argument was not making me yield because it was weak, and since Angels Unaware is getting somewhere with me you got upset. You wanted to be you who make me yield. What you do not get is not about you getting your way but about arguments.
We need to examine the Arguments and see if they make sense and are reasonable.
DO not take it personal. If me or somebody else is not buying an argument that you present, then check the objections and see if maybe your argument is not so good, and then come back with something better.
I just pointed out that your arguments were very weak and you got very upset and took it very personal and slashed out.
I did not saw you ever once asking me: According to you, what do you find weak in my arguments?

Anyway, feel free to shoot any question. I am still here willing to listen to any of you!

I still feel that, if we insist that this accounts are to be taken literally they show The God of the Old Testament “Jehovah” in a very bad light. We need to come with better arguments to explain those verses away.

Arguement that say: the parents where into sacrificing children still do not Justify God for Butchering the babies, even if you can convince me that they are afterwards admitted to heaven by the same guy who ordered them butchered to suffer an horrible death.
It is very counter intuitive in my opinion, and still do not Justify God in doing this.

Other arguments that say: Well…, He is God and He can do whatever HE wants, is still not going to cut it because He is suppose to act according to his nature, unless He suffers multiple personality disorder.
Even in his wrath, He is suppose to exercise Justice. HE is God and there is nothing by definition He cannot do, so everything was at his disposal to avoid having to butchered the babies. Again, even in his wrath we should see him exercising Mercy and Love.

I do not see this, and my point remains. there should be a way to see this difficult passages in a way that Harmonize with a view of God that looks like Jesus in the New Testament.

Somehow I do not see Jeusus Butchering Babies.

I welcome any answer and/or criticism of my views and I am willing to keep discussing this with anyone that wants to discuss the argument that I lay.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

My contribution to this discussion is that perhaps you prefer to relish in the anger that presented me as someone whom you knew would burn you at the stake.

It is also my assertion also that one who judges God from their own interpretation of Scripture, judges 3000+ year old humanity, where that humanity is now as if they all weren’t with God right now, or that one needed a reason to love God based on this and not the myriad of Goodness one can see and experience through reason, the reason the unworthy God gave to you, is arrogant. Arrogance is blinding you to the Good that is God. Satan did the same thing and this is, in my opinion, what you are cooperating with now. This may sound bad to you (and the Moderator!) but I have prayed every night and offered rosaries and Divine Mercy Chaplets for you ever since this thread was temporarily closed. And I will continue.

Love is Charity and is often not NICE.

 

[TattooCatholic]

Earnest… that last comment was entirely innappropriate. I can’t believe that as a practicing Catholic you would compare someone to the inherent evil that is the devil himself. I have read this entire post and read what Sanctus has said in his entirety… what I see is someone who really is trying to understand this completely viable question that he has. We shouldn’t lambast him for his desire to understand… he wouldn’t be on this thread if he didn’t have some desire to crawl out of anthism and back to this wonderful Catholic faith. I for one welcome his questions and reading all have this only deepens my desire to learn about our faith and our God.

On the flip side… things that are written can be misinterpretted. As Sanctus seems to be writhing with hate in some of his writing… I think it probably wouldn’t seem so bad if he we were talking with him face to face. But for Santus to be taken a little more seriously… perhaps and little less severe writing should take place.

And for my take on this whole thread… Sanctus… I don’t honestly know if I can answer your question where you will say “Well… that’s it! That’s the answer I’ve been looking for! I don’t have any more questions.”

I have a few things though. We don’t have to understand everything… to believe in something. I know that there is an intelligent creator who made you and I. It’s evident in the eyes of my child and with me watching the sun rise each and every morning. This all happened not by chance. The bible passages you quote are indeed bloody and call to question our faith that God is a loving God. What I can say is that these books were written 3000+ years ago and it was a different time. If 3000 years in the future, people read about America and the things that happened here (for example the hurricane that nearly wiped out all of New Orleans) there could be some attributation to the fact that it was an act of God. We all have questions as to why bad things happen to good people and the answer is not anything tangible.

My computer is about to die but I just want to know that you are loved and despite the fact you may not think or believe that God IS a loving god… he will hear your prayers despite the fact you may not think he is listening or cares. I would encourage you to pray about this and the answers will come.

 

[tjm190]

Oh look, a troll. Have some troll food

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Earnest… that last comment was entirely innappropriate. I can’t believe that as a practicing Catholic you would compare someone to the inherent evil that is the devil himself. I have read this entire post and read what Sanctus has said in his entirety… what I see is someone who really is trying to understand this completely viable question that he has. We shouldn’t lambast him for his desire to understand… he wouldn’t be on this thread if he didn’t have some desire to crawl out of anthism and back to this wonderful Catholic faith. I for one welcome his questions and reading all have this only deepens my desire to learn about our faith and our God.

You have not read the entire post, the moderator has deleted some of the posts, including the one where I was accused of being the type of person to burn someone at the stake. I am praying for this person, but I must also indicate where I think someone is going off track and where one can return to it, humility, Not Judging God. In my opinion this is relevant to the question of the posts by Mr. Enigma40.

The vitriol that impels one to attack so vociferously is of concern to me because of the condition of ones soul that thinks then takes the time to write (type) this maliciousness. I am saying the answer to his question on the evilness of God is in his own heart and is clearly shown in the vileness of the attacks.

**On the flip side… things that are written can be misinterpreted. **

I interpret the following as a lack of humility that clouds ones mind to the Love and Goodness of God. If I posted these and reread them, I would think I was being arrogant, a rational judgment in my book.

I couldn’t care less if you think I that I am here to learn or not. Couldn’t care less if you think my motives are honest and sincere or not…

but when GOD MURDERS a baby, it is absolutely OK, Holy, Awesome, Commendable, Acceptable, and a GOOD thing!

From another thread started by SanctusEnigma40

What a joke of a christian you are! Please stay away from me! Your sense of Morality makes me want to puke!

Nahh!, He is not Good. He is in fact so evil that makes Hitler and Stalin look like Mother Teresa of Calcutta. Another thing, a lion at least only kills for food!

I couldn’t care less about a hippie God either. You can shove it too! All I am asking is for you to make your mind about your freaking God. Make him a Hippie if you will, or make him a murderous SOB, but just don’t keep preaching me a freaking Dr. Jekill & Mr Hide God in Heaven.
Who do you worship for God?? A freaking Lunatic that suffers from Alzheimer’s?? Is your God forgetting to take his medications lately???

There is no answer to this except the acceptance of humility that one cannot set oneself above God due to we being mere creatures. We are told Satan, also a created being, did this first and was judged and condemned. We will be judged too, and this setting oneself above God manifested in thoughts, words, and actions is the means we can see our own sin of arrogance (Sirach 10:15): “Pride is the beginning of all sin.”

 

[SanctusEnigma40]

Ernest,Ernest…What am I going to do with you! Ok… I accept your criticism with all humility. Do you think we can move on to try to answer now the question at hand.
If there is anything else in your chest that you want to say about me, go ahead, say all of it in one more post and lets move on. I apologize ( are you happy?), and you made your point, so i politely ask you to get over the whole thing and lets tackle the question at hand.

I can slash out and give you a piece of my mind, but i preffer not to, because last time i checked, this forum is for discussing issues, and last time I checked, the name of this thread is:
“God is not all Good”, not, “What I believe about Sanctus Enigma”

So Earnest, do me a favor and lets try not to get sidetrack into personalism. Ok! I get it! you think I am Hell bent, that my motives to come here to this forum are not honest or incensire, and that I am like the devil because I am arrogant!

That is OK! You are entitle to your opinion, and I respect it in all honesty, and accept your rebuke. But all things you post against me are not doing anything in advancing the purpose of this post. The puspose of this post is to find out if in fact God is all good or not!

Feel free to jump in if you have something to post to answer any of the hard questions I put on the table like: God Murdering and Butchering Babies in the Old Testament.

But if all you are going to contribute is personal critizism about me (Not about my arguments), then we are not going to go nowhere.

Earnest, I am going to tell you what I believe about you: Are you ready?, are you ready?..wait for it, wait for it! as far as I am concerned, you are… a faithful Catholic that is very Zealous of defending your faith, and you take what you believe to be attacks against your faith and against your God very seriously, and that is it.

That is all I have to say about you!

I do not feel the need to keep defending myself against more criticism against my motives of myself, because if you knew me personally you will know that I do not feel high of myself in the first place. If you see me on the street you will not think highly of me either, and all my friends over the years, family members and loved ones say that I am a very aprochable person (If that is boasting i am sorry!).

But the point I am trying to make, is that who I am is not important here, and what you or anyone else want to believe about me, is not important either.

Arguments stand or fall on their on, and here, we have a situation in which I am trying to get some answers to what I consider serious questions, because until I cannot get a decent answer, i find myself unable to worship God, even if I can get to know that He in fact exist.

The only analogy I can think of is the following: Why will you even want to try to find a friend in the forest is suddenly you are confronted with the fact that He might probably be a very evil Murderous Serial Killer. It like: I do not think I want to spend the rest of my energy searching for Him because He is Evil anyway! so what is the point.

Now, Ernest, I know that you think I am Unsicere, and Arrogant, and all of that for daring to eve question God, but that is part of my whole point.

Let me explain:

Maybe this cations of God in the Old Testamet are not really God in the first place!

Did you get that? I 'll say it again: Maybe this was not really God!

Maybe Christians are misled to believe that God in deed performed all this atrocities in the Old Testament, when in fact He did not do any of it in the first place!

Maybe, just maybe, God is upset and dissapointed in you and people that think like you for atributing all this things to his Holy name!

Have you ever consider that?

Maybe God see with good eyes my efforts and the efforts of people like me that try to separate God from all this atrocities.

I know that there is a bible verse (one of the prophets) that talks about How the Levites Invented and attributed all this things to God! (Or something along those lines).

Also I can think of another bible verse in the old testament that God talks through one of his prophets about people sacrifising their babies burning them to the Lord, and He was rebuking this actions saying tht “Such things have never raised to my heart”

In other words, God is saying that He will be incapable of such things!

And this square perfectly with the Classic conception of God: All Good, All Loving, Merciful, Patient, Long-suffering, Kind, etc. You know, like Jesus portrays the Father in the New Testament.

The problem, in my opinion, starts when we start trying to reconcile that view of God, with the God of the Old Testament in wich He is portrayed as ordering the butchering of Babies, Murdering kids and babies, killing the innocent together with the guilty (a thing that later he say that he will not do), and others.

This in a nutshell is what this Forum is for. To discuss all this things. Not what your opinion is of me. That is not important. Not at all, but if it makes you happy, I am sorry to come across so vociferous and unyielding, and I am sorry to have suggested that in another times you might have me Burn to death at the stake (inquisition style, for blasphemy). I am sorry, I am sorry, OK! I trully apologize, and repent.

Now, can we move on and try to get a reasonable answer for this questions?

I have hear suggestions that maybe this verses are not to be taken litterally. Perhaps, but my question then is: If they are to be taken allegorically or simbolically, what id the explanation of the allegory, or the explanation of the symbolism???

I think is fair to ask this!

Continue…

 

[SanctusEnigma40]

Look Earnest, this is a discussion forum, and I am really trying to get a good answer for this.

If I am going to be condemned for being so bold to ask this difficult questions here, can you then point me to at least a place where you think i might have them answered?

Yo can say you do not know (no disgrace in that), and at least point me in the right direction, but, all I ask is that if you still feel the need to condemn and rebuke me, please be so kind to try to contribute something to answer this question.

I can live with people calling me names, and judging me, and condemning me, and accusing me of having ulterior motives, or being insincere in my approach, and all of that!

I am OK with that. What I cannot afford to do is to keep living with this nagging question about God goodness, and this is why I came her in the first place! to get some answers!

I look forward to keep discussing with you or any one else about this difficult questions.

Again, I want to concentrate in the question that are still in the table, about God goodness or lack thereoff in his actions on the Old testament.
Why is God portrayed in the in such a bad light? So Short Fused, and Trigger Happy to Smite, and kill, even Children and babies, and perform such atrocities as genocides, ethnic cleansing and such!

Now my point is: If in fact, this depictions are true, and God did in fact do all of this in the Old Testament, and if there is no misinterpretation on this verses, but they are in fact accurate, then We are taliking about a God that suffers from Multiple Personality disorder, or suffers from heavely Alzhimers disease, or something like this!

What I am trying to say, somehow, there must be an answer that either justify God in doing all of this, or, that explain away this difficult passages in such a way that they cannot really be atributed to God doing them.

Now, if you still think I am a Hell Bent, Arrogant Devil, that should not even dare to question God, and ask thios questions, you will just have to suffer me a little bit Earnest.

I am sorry, but this is a discussion Forum and I really want a good answer for this.

Before closing I want to tell you how much I appreciate that you pray for me. I am very grateful for that.

Best Regards,

SanctusEnigma40

PS

By the way TattooCatholic, thanks so much for your kind words to me! and I do also kindly accept and receive your criticism, and I will try not to be so severe! thank you so much for your contribution to the discussion and for your insight! very much appreciated!

 

[matahari]

Pain and suffering. The big question Why does God allow?
So that greater good will come of it.
God has an Agenda and a Time frame in which to accomplish His will.
When an individual or a nation or empire stands in His way to accomplish His will of perfect goodness , that individual, or nation or empire will come under God’s judgement
As did Pharao and the Egyptians
As did the City of Jericho
As did Jerusalem after the rejection and murder of Christ
In case you hadn’t noticed there’s a battle going on out there and the stakes are high - No less than the salvation of every man woman and child

Jesus said “He who is not with me is against me”
So, by shaking your fist at God you have made yourself on the side of his enemy Satan.
The death of Jesus and the manner in which He was put to death is a graphic indication of the malice of Satan and his human followers. Don’t forget, Jesus is God in human form.
Perhaps you think God hasn(t suffered enough ? Perhaps He should come down from Heaven so you and your buddies could crucify Him all over again?
Anyhow it boils down to . You have two choices
A. You can spend Eternity with a Loving God or if its your preference
B You can spend eternity with the Miserific vision of Satan
Remember, God’s patience is not inexhaustible. There comes a time, as did with Judas ] when He ceases to strive with a soul which is hell-bent on its own destruction.

 

[SanctusEnigma40]

Matahari:

A. You can spend Eternity with a Loving God or if its your preference

That is precisely the question we are trying to answer here! Is God (as portrayed in the Old Testament) a Good “Loving God”, or just an evil god, no better than Baal, Moloch, or any of the other Gods in the Ancient Palestine.

Could it be that the Catholic Church (from the 2nd century on) in its great desire to get Jewish credentials decided to adopt the jewish scriptures that portray what they consider God in such a bad light?

If there such thing as a God in Heaven, I just can’t picture him Butchering Children, the same way i cannot picture Jesus doing so. (Jesus as you probably know is God, the Son).

Catholic teaching (as far as I understand) do not depend uniquely in the scriptures to base their dogmas. Much less its literal interpretation!

If you are saying (and can back it up) that The old testament is literally true, the whole thing from Genesis to Malchi, then I say that God is in fact no good, and pretty scary and not worthy of our worship.

If all of this Old testament depictions, on the other hand, can be viewed from another perspective (unknown to me), or in another light, then we can still keep the concept of God in our mind free from all the Savagery that tends to be attributed to him (maybe in a incorrect manner).

SO you have to be more specific on what you are claiming.

Are you saying that God is in fact Ruthless, Tyranic, Bloodthirsty, and it is either His way or else…???

If this is the God you worship, then count me out. Of course I will not worship him.

But this is the question: Is He in fact like this?
If you can back it up then I will like to hear your harmonization of the God of the New testament, with the Old Testament. This is precisely the discussion at hand!

I am still to hear a good argument! You just seam to be implying that I better yield or else…!!

That is not going to work with me. I need good reasons, one way or the other! Threats will not work with me. Eternal Hell, or any other kind of threat will not work.

If God is in fact Ruthless and I end up in Hell, so be it! But if He is in fact a good and patient God (as I will like to believe He is), He has to know that I am doing this with sincerity of heart, and with love for the truth, and I want to get to know the answers for this.

 

[ipul]

(…) there are lots of other God that’s are mentioned in the bible and elsewhere and throughout other religions(…)

?

someone explain.

and where ‘elsewhere’ (since you don’t mean other religions)?

 

[matahari]

Are you saying that God is in fact Ruthless, Tyranic, Bloodthirsty, and it is either His way or else…???

---

NO, I’m not saying that God is Ruthless, Tyranic and Bloodthirsty.
YOU are saying that God is Ruthless, Tyranic Bloodthirsty
What I am saying is that God has Zero Tolerance for sin

So you do believe in Jesus since you describe Him as God the Son

What are your beliefs about Jesus?
You cannot have the kind and benevolent Saviour and discard His Father
That would result in a Permissive God
Created in your own Image and Likeness !