God is not all good

[SanctusEnigma40]

Matahari:

YOU are saying that God is Ruthless, Tyranic Bloodthirsty

Nope, I think you do not understand, What I say is that if in fact this verses on the Old testament are to be interpreted Literally, then YES, we are talking about a Tyranical, Ruthless, and bloodthirsty God!

Notice again that I am trying to emphasize in the “if”. So that is something that you first have to think about and come up with an answer! If the God that you worship in fact did all of this, then good luck worshiping your monster!

Are you saying God in fact committed all this atrocities in the old Testament?
If you answer is Yes, and you are Ok with it, then my friend, you are worshiping a monster!

Matahari:

What I am saying is that God has Zero Tolerance for sin

No, I do not think that you can get that from the bible either! God is portrayed in many other places having lots of patience with Sinners, even among his chosen (or elected) people, including: Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, A bunch of the subsequent Kings of Israel, and judah!
If God had “Zero” tolerance for Sin, then a bunch of them (and us too) will be very dead by now!

Again, I do not have a problem with the verses that He shows patience and mercy, I just want to see some consistency in his character!

Matahari:

What are your beliefs about Jesus?

I cannot See Jesus Comanding to Butcher Babies, or himself killing babies!

If that the way you see Jesus, then again, Good luck worshiping The monster that you call God!

It will be very, very disturbing if in fact your monster turn out to be the real God!

For me I keep hoping that this is not the case!

Matahari:

You cannot have the kind and benevolent Saviour and discard His Father
That would result in a Permissive God

Yes, I agree, but don’t you see that they are both suppose to share the same God Essence?
You cannot have a Tyranical Father and a Benevolent Merciful Son. They are suppose to share the same Essence! If one is Tyranical and Evil, so does the other. On the other hand, if one is Benevolent, Good, Patient, and Merciful, so does the other.
They cannot both have opposite character traits at the same time! At least, in my mind this will be not only confusing, but illogical! His character must be internally consistent with Himself. He can be either or, but not both at the same time! If I am wrong, then show me, and I will change my mind!

Let me know if you have any other questions. I will be happy to answer them and to keep the whole discussion in a friendly way! : )

Regards

SanctusEnigma40

 

[ready]

I haven’t been reading this thread but I do feel the need to defend God, reason and truth. God is all good or he isn’t God - he’d be a demon and a mere creature - and demons/creatures can not create the world out of nothing. Demons/creatures do not posses that sort of power. Mere creatures are not all good, as they possess some faults. Perhaps anyone saying God is not all good is judging him the way they judge creatures. You do not know God and who he is if you can blashpheme him so easily. Perhaps some of you who believe God is not all good don’t mean to blaspheme but are just trying to understand Him. My advice to you is don’t try and understand Him as though he were simply a creature. He is all knowing(we are not) and does things for reasons we mere creatures can not and do not comprehend. Our humility will take us very far in understanding God when we give our assent to what the Bible and the Catholic Church says God is. Christ is all good and Christ is God. It is very wrong for us to argue that God is not all good, knowing who Christ is. Perhaps some of you do not know Christ and that is your problem.

 

[SanctusEnigma40]

ready:

You do not know God and who he is if you can blashpheme him so easily

Couldn’t Agree more! That is why is important to clear this whole thing about god BUTCHERING babies. If God in fact did not do any of this things then I agree it is a blasphemy to his name to attribute such horrendous atrocities to His Holy name. Not only that, I will go so far to say that any one that believes that God in fact this this sort of things and is OK with it, should not be so quick to think he is bringing God glory and honor by thinking like this.

I challenge anyone that think like this to question a little bit harder wether attributing this kind of acts to God is good, and come with a moral justification for it, since maybe God is not so fond of worshipers that claim to know God, but in fact are attributing horrendous bloody acts to Him. Maybe God doesn’t like this Very much!

Now, if anyone feels like is OK for god to do this, and have amoral justification for it I am all ears!

If you cannot come with a moral justification for this Bloody acts, then maybe is time to ask wether any of this acts where actually performed by God, or might not be meant to be taken literally (With in my opinion might very well be a viable explanation), but I am also still waiting for someone that can put in perspective the symbolic, or allegorical meaning of the verses.

If this cannot be done either, then I will say that We have to be force to not believe the Old testament.

I will repeat again: I cannot believe that the real, Holy God of Heaven will do such things!
Jesus, being God in Flesh cannot possible have been the author of such horrible acts!

So me, rather than just accepting those verses at face values, I am still patiently waiting for someone to come up with a viable explanation!

Now, if all i am going to get is the type of answers that say basically:

Yeah!, God did all this atrocities, and they are good because they are done by God, and all that God do is good!, Then to that kind of logic all I am left to do is to reject it completely.

That kind of God then will be Tyranical, Ruthless and Bloodthirsty. and Mr. ready is very right: That sounds like a demon to me, because that is exactly the kind of creature that will do such a thing.

If God exist, in my view, He cannot possibly be acting like a Demon.

Now a person that is OK with God acting like a Demon is very difficult for me to comprehend.

But anyone is entitled to worship their own brand of Demon, Monster, or any other malevolent creature they want to worship. I am OK with it, althought I do not comprehend it.

However, I want to stay away from that and try to grasp the truth so I can freely Worship a God that is Consistent with himself, and is Pure, Good, and Just too.

Again, I am not pushing for a Wimpy, Hippie, Mushy God, that will not punish. I am OK with the Idea of a God who will not allow the guilty to go without punishment.

What I cannot understand is a God who will kill and butchered the innocent. This is where i have problems. and because I am brave enough to point this out, I get many angry people making personal attacks and threats all the time. I get to also to be Judge and condemned as a blasphemer, and a Heretic too!

I will appreciate if the people who judge me like this will also give an explanation to why I am wrong with the problem I am bringing to the table of discussion in this forum, but I guess I am expecting too much to bring this issue in here!

All I get is arguments like: “You should not blaspheme God”. “You do not Know God if you speak like this” , and the usual.

But I am still to hear a good explanations for my questions.

It is so hard to keep explaining every time the point I am trying to make.

It will be refreshing if I could hear from somebody that can red this posts and can relate to what I am asking, even if they do not have an answer themselves!

I guess i will keep waiting!

Thanks Mr. ready for your post.

Best Regards

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Perhaps you could post your query in the “Ask an Apologist” forum.

 

[SanctusEnigma40]

Earnest Bunbury:

Perhaps you could post your query in the “Ask an Apologist” forum

Earnest! You resurrected! I was missing you. Thanks for your posting. It means to me a lot that you do because even though we might not agree, it says to me that you care.
It also means a lot to me that you pray for me. I do appreciate that a lot.

I tried this but it never got posted. For some reason my question never got posted. I tried 3 more times making the question short, but I never got any back. Maybe they are too busy (at least that what i think)!

Anyway, I appreciate you suggesting this, and by all means, feel free to jump in at any time in here if you any insight. I like reading your posts.

Regards,

SanctusEnigma40

 

[o_mlly]

The atheist’s best, yet false, argument is that one cannot simultaneously hold that God exists, is omnibenevolent, omniscent, omnipresent, omnipotent, and evil exists.

If God is all the above, so the argument goes, a God who is all good, knows, all and always gets His way would not allow evil to exist.

Christian philosopher Peter Kreeft came up with six solutions:
“a) God may use short-term evils for long-range goods.
b) God created the possibility of evil, but not the evil itself, and that free will was necessary for the highest good of real love. Kreeft says that being all-powerful doesn’t mean being able to do what is logically contradictory, i.e., giving freedom with no potentiality for sin.
c) God’s own suffering and death on the cross brought about his supreme triumph over the devil.
d) God uses suffering to bring about moral character, quoting apostle Paul in Romans.
e) Suffering can bring people closer to God.
f) The ultimate “answer” to suffering is Jesus himself, who, more than any explanation, is our real need.”

Peace,
O’Malley

 

[SanctusEnigma40]

Dear O_mlly,

No problem with me on the “suffering” department. I agree with you wholeheartedly. God can have many motives to allow suffering in the world, and that is just fine with me. As far as I am concerned God do not guarantees in this life, the “non-suffering” for anyone, not even his own people. Even Jesus had to Suffer.

I do not have any issue with God allowing suffering in this world, or even God to even allow for Evil to freely run its course on this earth.

You will not find No problem with me there either.

When I start having problems is when God seams to be depicted as the AUTHOR of evil deeds. When the Holy Bible depicts God Butchering the innocent, initiating Horrendous acts, or commanding his armies to Butcher Babies, then I have a problem with this God.

Not that it necessarily have to be the “Real God” doing this, but that the Bible seams to be depicting the "Real"Creator of the Universe doing this Evil things.

Now, I am not saying that God in fact did this, but what I am saying is that if in fact He did this Evil things, then He is Not a good God.

Thanks for your contribution.

 

[matahari]

My God,my God, why have you forsaken me, far from my prayer, from the words of my cry ?O my God I cry out by day, and you answer not; by night and there is no relief for me. Yet you are enthroned in the holy place, O glory of Israel ! In you our fathers trusted; they trusted and you delivered them. To you they cried, and they escaped; in you they trusted, and they were not put to shame.
Be not far from me for I am in distress; be near for I have no one to help me. Many bullocks surround me; the strong bulls of Basan encircle me.They open thrie mouths against me like ravening and roaring lions.
I am like water poured out; all my bones are racked. My heart has become like wax melting away within my bosom. My throat is dried up like baked clay, my tongue cleaves to my jaws ; to the dust of death you have brought me down.
Indeed, many dogs surround me, a pack of evildoers closes in upon me; they have pierced my hands and my feet; I can count all my bones. They look on and gloat over me; they divide my garments among them, and for my vesture they cast lots.
But you, O Lord, be not far from me; O my help, hasten to aid me. Rescue my soul from the sword, my loneliness from the grip of the dog. Save me from the lion’s mouth; from the horns of the wild bulls, my wretched life

I will proclaim your name to my brethern; in the midst of the assembly I will praise you: " You who fear the Lord, praise him; all you descendants of Jacob give glory to him; revere him , all you descendants of Israel ! For he has not spurned nor disdained the wretched man in his misery, nor did he turn his face away from him, but when he cried out to him , he heard him"
Let the coming generation be told of the Lord that they may proclaim to a people yet to be born the justice he has shown.
Psalm 21
In light of this Psalm from the Old Testament
What are your thoughts on God sacrificing his Beloved Son to save you from your sins and from eternal punishment ?
Thanks

 

[o_mlly]

Dear O_mlly,

…

When I start having problems is when God seams to be depicted as the AUTHOR of evil deeds. When the Holy Bible depicts God Butchering the innocent, initiating Horrendous acts, or commanding his armies to Butcher Babies, then I have a problem with this God.

Not that it necessarily have to be the “Real God” doing this, but that the Bible seams to be depicting the "Real"Creator of the Universe doing this Evil things.

Now, I am not saying that God in fact did this, but what I am saying is that if in fact He did this Evil things, then He is Not a good God.

Thanks for your contribution.

Thanks for your comments. Let us agree that God did order such taking of human and animal life on the scale reported in the Bible. The question, it seems to me, is such an act evil or not. Is it evil if the Author of Life takes a life? My answer is: No. However, it is evil if any non-author of life takes what is not his to take. What is a just act for the Creator is not always a just act for the created

Why did God act as He did? Here we can, I think, only speculate for we cannot know the mind of God. We may think that His purpose was to prepare the world for the coming of the Son. It seems the entire Old Testament is the story of His preparation for the pinnacle event of all time – preparing mankind to experience the redemptive act of His only Son.

Those cultures which God caused or ordered to be destroyed were inimical to the future gospel message. The flood, the eradication of Sodom and Gomorra, the killing of Egypt’s firstborn, the slaying of the Canaanites – women children and animals – I believe were necessary acts in order that a remnant of the Jewish culture survives to receive Jesus’ message with faith. When God the Son arrived, how many were left who recognized Him? Just enough.

Peace,
O’Malley

 

[ready]

Couldn’t Agree more! That is why is important to clear this whole thing about god BUTCHERING babies. If God in fact did not do any of this things then I agree it is a blasphemy to his name to attribute such horrendous atrocities to His Holy name. Not only that, I will go so far to say that any one that believes that God in fact this this sort of things and is OK with it, should not be so quick to think he is bringing God glory and honor by thinking like this.

I challenge anyone that think like this to question a little bit harder wether attributing this kind of acts to God is good, and come with a moral justification for it, since maybe God is not so fond of worshipers that claim to know God, but in fact are attributing horrendous bloody acts to Him. Maybe God doesn’t like this Very much!

Now, if anyone feels like is OK for god to do this, and have amoral justification for it I am all ears!

If you cannot come with a moral justification for this Bloody acts, then maybe is time to ask wether any of this acts where actually performed by God, or might not be meant to be taken literally (With in my opinion might very well be a viable explanation), but I am also still waiting for someone that can put in perspective the symbolic, or allegorical meaning of the verses.

If this cannot be done either, then I will say that We have to be force to not believe the Old testament.

I will repeat again: I cannot believe that the real, Holy God of Heaven will do such things!
Jesus, being God in Flesh cannot possible have been the author of such horrible acts!

So me, rather than just accepting those verses at face values, I am still patiently waiting for someone to come up with a viable explanation!

Now, if all i am going to get is the type of answers that say basically:

Yeah!, God did all this atrocities, and they are good because they are done by God, and all that God do is good!, Then to that kind of logic all I am left to do is to reject it completely.

That kind of God then will be Tyranical, Ruthless and Bloodthirsty. and Mr. ready is very right: That sounds like a demon to me, because that is exactly the kind of creature that will do such a thing.

If God exist, in my view, He cannot possibly be acting like a Demon.

Now a person that is OK with God acting like a Demon is very difficult for me to comprehend.

But anyone is entitled to worship their own brand of Demon, Monster, or any other malevolent creature they want to worship. I am OK with it, althought I do not comprehend it.

However, I want to stay away from that and try to grasp the truth so I can freely Worship a God that is Consistent with himself, and is Pure, Good, and Just too.

Again, I am not pushing for a Wimpy, Hippie, Mushy God, that will not punish. I am OK with the Idea of a God who will not allow the guilty to go without punishment.

What I cannot understand is a God who will kill and butchered the innocent. This is where i have problems. and because I am brave enough to point this out, I get many angry people making personal attacks and threats all the time. I get to also to be Judge and condemned as a blasphemer, and a Heretic too!

I will appreciate if the people who judge me like this will also give an explanation to why I am wrong with the problem I am bringing to the table of discussion in this forum, but I guess I am expecting too much to bring this issue in here!

All I get is arguments like: “You should not blaspheme God”. “You do not Know God if you speak like this” , and the usual.

But I am still to hear a good explanations for my questions.

It is so hard to keep explaining every time the point I am trying to make.

It will be refreshing if I could hear from somebody that can red this posts and can relate to what I am asking, even if they do not have an answer themselves!

I guess i will keep waiting!

Thanks Mr. ready for your post.

Best Regards

Imagine that God is the Surgeon and in order to keep gangrene or cancer from spreading to the healthy parts of the body he must saw off an entire leg. Sounds cruel but it is actually an act of mercy. That’s what God did with those cultures like the Amalekites. He spared the Israelites from their corruption and when you think about it he actually spared those innocent babies of the Amalekites from eternal perdition by taking them when he did, before they got corrupted by their parents. What was God supposed to do? let the innocent babies live while killing their parents and leave them to die a slow torturous death in their cribs from dehydration and malnutrition and sores from not being changed?

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

What was God supposed to do? let the innocent babies live while killing their parents and leave them to die a slow torturous death in their cribs from dehydration and malnutrition and sores from not being changed?

I’ll step in for Mr. Enigma40 for a post and say that this is not really a good answer morally. It could justify euthanasia and abortion, even as a means of stopping diaper rash.

Morally we are creatures by the Divine love of God and cannot judge God or His actions. The Good of God can be seen in so many other acts, writings, and philosophical studies that the stories of 3000 year old humanity cannot even begin to tarnish ones view of God unless that person wants to exclude all the other good and just concentrate on what justifies their apparent anger. It only serves the “evil one” who is opposed to God in the struggle for our souls. Putting this part of the journey aside and concentrating on the other goods will make the love of God answer the “evil” that is only apparent in the eye of the beholder.

 

[ready]

I’ll step in for Mr. Enigma40 for a post and say that this is not really a good answer morally. It could justify euthanasia and abortion, even as a means of stopping diaper rash.

QUOTE]

I couln’t disagree with you any more. If putting murderers in prison for their crimes causes possible death for them (as prisons have the highest incidence of murder) does that justify not putting the criminal in prison?

Your thinking is faulty - very faulty, I’m afraid. What I said is absolutely right and has been used in the arguments of Jimmy Akin AND DOES NOT justify euthanasia and abortion. You are not thinking right!

 

[Whdevo]

I’m currently agnostic. I accept that your God could be there and if he is I dont care as I dont see him worthy of worshiping. Anyway some christians siad that god is all good and all loving. Yet some of the things he does/condones in the OT don’t seem to be in any way good at all. Then there’s that bible quote about God repenting of evil so he just seems to be petty and vindictive to me. I mean there are lots of other God that’s are mentioned in the bible and elsewhere and throughout other religions why go for one who is clearly evil?

Please be assured GOD IS ALL GOOD …

We, however, through the “free-will” with which “He” (God) has endowed us, are capable of refusing to accept that fact, and are strangely susceptible to being persuaded that that fact is false.

It very much depends on how one looks at it together with how familiar one is with God’s “rules for, and examples of, His directives for good living”.

How do we come to the belief that God (and, here, I fully accept that many of “the gods” were “not good”, but I do not accept them as “God”) is not all good? Invariably, by our observations of things in the present or of how things have been in the past, and we “nit-pick”, so as to convince ourselves that there are falsities or contradictions in what God “does”, as opposed to what He “expects” of us.

Faith, also, is a very important aspect …

To say: “I believe in God because …” or “I believe God is all good because …”, I would humbly suggest is not to have “faith” in God, but, rather, to have an “opinion”/feeling/conviction" that God … (however strongly that opinion is expressed or felt).

“Faith”, at least in my opinion, is simply to “know” that God is, that God is all good, that God is … whatever (no matter how it may, at any particular time, seem to our own individual selves).

I look at the life I am living as one in which God puts before me various situations to which I am expected to react, and through which I am expected to “learn”.

Using the rules God has provided, I am to perfect myself, and, then, these “observations” must always be tempered by the knowledge that “God is all good”.

God motivates each and every thing, but His purpose for this is not that I might be able to judge either Him or my neighbours (whom Jesus directs should be loved even as I love myself, and never judged as to whether they are right or wrong in what they are impelled by God to do).

Rather, it is God’s “wish” that I should be with Him in the end, but that does not come without some effort on my part…

That “effort”, I believe includes faith (see above) in the goodness of God, and a steadfast (or as steadfast as is possible for me … I am far from “perfect” …) adhering to His revealed rules for good living -“The Holy Bible”.

These reactions will be the subject of my individual “discussions” on The Last Day, and it will be upon whether these reactions have correlated with His rules that God will “judge” myself and each man individually.

So, everybody is free to judge God, if they will, but, having done this (particularly in the face of the fact that God has, so many times, warned that to do this is folly), they will be held in account at the Last Day.

I would urge anyone to look very seriously into the matter before forming particularly an “adverse opinion” of God, and to ensure that any opinion arrived at is completely in accord with their “conscience”.

The conscience, I believe, is as the “voice of the soul”, and, although it is much louder in some than in others, it is never absent, and is always able to be strengthened by the effort of obtaining righteous knowledge and acting.

I hope that his has been constructive and not too “rambling” …

God Bless you

William

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

I couln’t disagree with you any more. If putting murderers in prison for their crimes causes possible death for them (as prisons have the highest incidence of murder) does that justify not putting the criminal in prison?

The possible death of a prisoner in prison is not the purpose of putting him in prison so the death, if it happens, is in scholastic terminology an “accident” of the act of incarceration. It would be immoral to put a prisoner in a situation where he would be injured or worse on purpose. This is just confusing the topic with more hypothetical situations and we must look at the object of a moral act because that is where the Church says the act is determined to be just or not.

Let’s examine your statements:

Imagine that God is the Surgeon and in order to keep gangrene or cancer from spreading to the healthy parts of the body he must saw off an entire leg. Sounds cruel but it is actually an act of mercy. That’s what God did with those cultures like the Amalekites. He spared the Israelites from their corruption and when you think about it he actually spared those innocent babies of the Amalekites from eternal perdition by taking them when he did, before they got corrupted by their parents.

This is an opinion that has no moral statement in it but as a basis for a moral absolute it is shaky because of the assertion that the Israelites would have been corrupted and that the Amalekites would have been condemned to eternal perdition unless exterminated before they actually did anything. This is impossible to prove and cannot be a basis for a moral absolute.

What was God supposed to do? let the innocent babies live while killing their parents and leave them to die a slow torturous death in their cribs from dehydration and malnutrition and sores from not being changed?

This is the problem. It seems to say that what makes this act of killing morally OK (some acts of killing are OK, defense, capitol punishment) is compassion. Compassion as in killing before being condemned to eternal perdition, as in your statement above, or compassion in not prolonging suffering. If it is put like this “What are we supposed to do? let grandmother live on a feeding tube and in pain from bed sores and cancer?” it can be seen that the compassion indicated in the statement of killing the Amalekites orphan children is wrong due to the object, killing, is wrong and the circumstance, suffering, cannot be the basis for making killing morally good.

This ties in with this thread in that God can kill as a function of His omniscience and omnipotence, that is, the circumstance of who is doing the act, and, the intention that we don’t know. My assertion is that we are not to ask God why based on humility.

The Magisterial teaching on morality is based on natural law and the divine law as revealed by God in the ten commandments. We are to use this to determine what we are to do basing our actions on the three things that make an act moral if each is not evil, Object, Intention, and Circumstance.

CCC 1750 "The morality of human acts depends on:

• the object chosen;
• the end in view or the intention;
• the circumstances of the action.
  The object, the intention, and the circumstances make up the “sources,” or constitutive elements, of the morality of human acts."

I hope this clears up the confusion.

 

[ready]

The possible death of a prisoner in prison is not the purpose of putting him in prison so the death, if it happens, is in scholastic terminology an “accident” of the act of incarceration. It would be immoral to put a prisoner in a situation where he would be injured or worse on purpose. This is just confusing the topic with more hypothetical situations and we must look at the object of a moral act because that is where the Church says the act is determined to be just or not.

Let’s examine your statements: This is an opinion that has no moral statement in it but as a basis for a moral absolute it is shaky because of the assertion that the Israelites would have been corrupted and that the Amalekites would have been condemned to eternal perdition unless exterminated before they actually did anything. This is impossible to prove and cannot be a basis for a moral absolute.

This is the problem. It seems to say that what makes this act of killing morally OK (some acts of killing are OK, defense, capitol punishment) is compassion. Compassion as in killing before being condemned to eternal perdition, as in your statement above, or compassion in not prolonging suffering. If it is put like this “What are we supposed to do? let grandmother live on a feeding tube and in pain from bed sores and cancer?” it can be seen that the compassion indicated in the statement of killing the Amalekites orphan children is wrong due to the object, killing, is wrong and the circumstance, suffering, cannot be the basis for making killing morally good.

This ties in with this thread in that God can kill as a function of His omniscience and omnipotence, that is, the circumstance of who is doing the act, and, the intention that we don’t know. My assertion is that we are not to ask God why based on humility.

The Magisterial teaching on morality is based on natural law and the divine law as revealed by God in the ten commandments. We are to use this to determine what we are to do basing our actions on the three things that make an act moral if each is not evil, Object, Intention, and Circumstance.

CCC 1750 "The morality of human acts depends on:

• the object chosen;
• the end in view or the intention;
• the circumstances of the action.
  The object, the intention, and the circumstances make up the “sources,” or constitutive elements, of the morality of human acts."

I hope this clears up the confusion.

I am not going to argue with anyone who doesn’t find God merciful for sparing innocent children from starvation, dehydration and sores and argues that this argument supports euthanasia. There is NO argument that supports euthanasia. Only specious arguments - and they do not count!

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

I am not going to argue with anyone who doesn’t find God merciful for sparing innocent children from starvation, dehydration and sores and argues that this argument supports euthanasia. There is NO argument that supports euthanasia. Only specious arguments - and they do not count!

Don’t get angry, there is not an argument for euthanasia anywhere near my post.

I AM NOT SUPPORTING IT!!! My post clearly shows, using clear Magisterial teaching that euthanasia is wrong!

Does YOUR sentence say that God is supposed to kill a child because it will suffer that no parent is there? Are you saying that in this sentence:

What was God supposed to do? let the innocent babies live while killing their parents and leave them to die a slow torturous death in their cribs from dehydration and malnutrition and sores from not being changed?

 

[ready]

don’t get angry, there is not an argument for euthanasia anywhere near my post.

I am not supporting it!!! My post clearly shows, using clear magisterial teaching that euthanasia is wrong!

Does your sentence say that god is supposed to kill a child because it will suffer that no parent is there? Are you saying that in this sentence:

not at all! God had to killl a child because of the abuse of free will by his/her parents!!!

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

not at all! God had to killl a child because of the abuse of free will by his/her parents!!!

Sin of the fathers passed down to the third generation, so to speak. Not to agree or to disagree but I can see the point now in context to your post.

I really couldn’t see this in the part of your sentence on malnutrition and dehydration in the context of suffering. I saw this alleviation of suffering as your main point because you mention mercy in the second sentence. It just wasn’t clear to me.

It seems now that it wasn’t your main point to take the children due to suffering alone. Thank you for clarification.

 

[crenfro]

Gracious!!!

I saw the title of your thread and skipped reading the thing – I felt compelled to put my two cents down here immediately.

Listen to Father Corapi. Get his talks. He has a Ph.D. on this issue. You’ll love hearing him, he’s also fun to listen to.

Many blessings and thanks for your courage in this post.

 

[matahari]

No, I do not think that you can get that from the bible either! God is portrayed in many other places having lots of patience with Sinners, even among his chosen (or elected) people, including: Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, A bunch of the subsequent Kings of Israel, and judah!
If God had “Zero” tolerance for Sin, then a bunch of them (and us too) will be very dead by now

SanctusEnigma40

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You could say God has a dilemma. While He loves the sinner, He hates the sin.
What does He do ?
He sends His Son to die in place of the sinner. So, all the sinner needs to do is accept Redemption won by Jesus.
If sin is not so terrible in God’s eyes then why did Jesus Son of God ] die such a cruel barbaric death at the hands of evil men ?
So, I repeat SE40 God has Zero Tolerance for sin ! :yup: