N
Neverland
Guest
If you want to know Jesus from your Quran, Ithink the best part is Surah Maryam. And you may want to read The Torn Veil, a good book about a moslem woman’s journey to Christianity.
- Status
F
Faith101
Guest
I dont understand what you mean when you say…
I’ve read parts of both the old testament and the new…out of the 3 (i think) different Bibles I have in my house (which were kindly given to me by Christians who belonged to different denominations).
Some parts of the Bible, i totally agree with…there are even some verses I love…but as God is my witness, nothing brings tranquility to my heart like the Quran does.
E
eleusis
Guest
Faith,
“the people of the book”; define “the book”. What exactly is the Muslim/Islamic definition of “the book”.
Reading outside of that is in violation of Islamic tradition because it can cause one to actually ask questions such as why there is no historical record of the sayings of Muhammad. Even the so called historical sources for the Haddith (which is on par with the koran) were found to be 7th-8th century forgeries. Muhammad was illiterate, he didn’t write his own stuff but supposedly his deeds were recorded, those records have been proven to be forgeries (Humphreys Islamic History a Framework for Inquiry from Princeton, 1991).
This is the kind of inquiry that Catholics have been subjected to for hundreds of years and yet remain today. Pick up a good book expressing counter Muslim beliefs, if for no other reason than to understand chief weaknesses in your faith. Why I am not a Muslim by Ibn Warraq is a nice one to start with.
Shalom
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
I guess this is what separate the Muslims from Christianity - Namely the word love and what it represents. Christ said that we should love our enemies. This is a tough thing to do expecially if your enemy has wronged you but that is what Christ wants us to do nonetheless. God has unconditional love for all of mankind including Muslims and non believers. And He even loves sinners not that they sin but that they repent. He knows that we will fall time after time and for true forgiveness we need to make amends and a true intent on not sinning. But fallen as we are it is inevitable that sin enters our life and we have to ask forgiveness again and again. But God being who He is will forgive WHY because he is a Loving God and Merciful God. We as humans can not understand the immensity of God’s love for humanity and we can only try to reason through what we know and the limits of our brain. But God is much much more than what we could ever envision. He is all loving that is ALL LOVING.Peace
I hear Christian saying this often, and its difficult for me to grasp.
God loves the sinner, hates the sin.
Does this mean He loves all sinners, or just ones who repent? And where does this idea originate from (verses from Bible would help)
N
Neverland
Guest
Dear Faith,
Actually, if you use logic, Quran also implicitly states that God/Allah loves sinner.
IF He doesn’t love sinners, HE would never send any prophet to tell the True Way.
Neverland
Actually, if you use logic, Quran also implicitly states that God/Allah loves sinner.
IF He doesn’t love sinners, HE would never send any prophet to tell the True Way.
Neverland
F
Faith101
Guest
I used to phrase “God loves the sinner” b/c i hear Christians saying it all the time, to refer to all people.
We all sin, really…none of us are perfect…but “…Truly, Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance…(Quran 2:222)”
Say: "O my servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Quran 39:53)
But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment. (Quran 4:14)
It’s clear…if you live your life worshipping others besides Allah, and transgressing the boundaries He has set for you…then you will have to pay the consequences…it is from His mercy that He sends prophets and messengers to us, to guide us back to the worship of Allah…but when people deny those messengers, call them liars and even try to kill them…where does that leave them
J
janG
Guest
We are in no way implying that someone who completely refuses God’s grace and does evil will go to heaven instead of hell. We are talking about the fact that God does not specifically create evil souls that He hates who have no chance of repentance and salvation no matter what choices they make in this life. He gave us free will and respects the choices we make. He will not force salvation on anyone. But, He put a desire to know Him inside of every person and He offers His grace to everyone. If He hates some people, then He has cut off any possibility of repentence and salvation, and if that is true, then what is the point of free will? God hates the evil men do, but that is not the same as hating the soul of the person and cutting them off from the possibility of repentence and salvation. If He hates you, then you cannot be forgiven of your sins. So when we say “God hates the sin but loves the sinner”, it means that the possibility still exists that the person can respond to God’s grace and repent and be forgiven. That possibility does not end until the person is dead. When we talk about loving and praying for our enemies, it means that we are to desire for them that they will respond to God’s grace and repent and be forgiven and we pray for that to happen.
Also, as far as the messenger, a person has to be sure they’re listening to the right one!! How can it possibly please God if a person chooses to listen to the lies of a false prophet?? He told us how to figure out which prophets are true and which are false. If a person refuses to do that, the person is refusing to follow God’s commands. Please explain to me how a person is pleasing God by disobeying Him? Our “feelings” have absolutely nothing to do with what is true and what is false.
Also, as far as the messenger, a person has to be sure they’re listening to the right one!! How can it possibly please God if a person chooses to listen to the lies of a false prophet?? He told us how to figure out which prophets are true and which are false. If a person refuses to do that, the person is refusing to follow God’s commands. Please explain to me how a person is pleasing God by disobeying Him? Our “feelings” have absolutely nothing to do with what is true and what is false.
N
Neverland
Guest
Dear Faith,
You said:
I used to phrase “God loves the sinner” b/c i hear Christians saying it all the time, to refer to all people.
We all sin, really…none of us are perfect…but “…Truly, Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance…(Quran 2:222)”
Say: "O my servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Quran 39:53)
But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment. (Quran 4:14)
It’s clear…if you live your life worshipping others besides Allah, and transgressing the boundaries He has set for you…then you will have to pay the consequences…it is from His mercy that He sends prophets and messengers to us, to guide us back to the worship of Allah…but when people deny those messengers, call them liars and even try to kill them…where does that leave them
God loves the sinners and so why he sent his prophets again and again, in the hope that ALL will repent to his True Way. His love is shown by that.
If He only cares for His own goodness, he would only sent a prophet and when many refused, He simply destroyed all human and started a new. But it doesn’t happen.
In Jesus Love
Neverland
You said:
I used to phrase “God loves the sinner” b/c i hear Christians saying it all the time, to refer to all people.
We all sin, really…none of us are perfect…but “…Truly, Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance…(Quran 2:222)”
Say: "O my servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Quran 39:53)
But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment. (Quran 4:14)
It’s clear…if you live your life worshipping others besides Allah, and transgressing the boundaries He has set for you…then you will have to pay the consequences…it is from His mercy that He sends prophets and messengers to us, to guide us back to the worship of Allah…but when people deny those messengers, call them liars and even try to kill them…where does that leave them
God loves the sinners and so why he sent his prophets again and again, in the hope that ALL will repent to his True Way. His love is shown by that.
If He only cares for His own goodness, he would only sent a prophet and when many refused, He simply destroyed all human and started a new. But it doesn’t happen.
In Jesus Love
Neverland
F
Faith101
Guest
Again, it is from God’s mercy, that He chooses to send messengers who will help in getting us back on the straight path after we have diverted…but i dont know what your last sentence means…what doesnt happen? God *has * destroyed whole nations before for their arrogant disbelief and their killing and mocking the messengers.
F
Faith101
Guest
N
Neverland
Guest
Dear Faith,
You said:
Again, it is from God’s mercy, that He chooses to send messengers who will help in getting us back on the straight path after we have diverted…but i dont know what your last sentence means…what doesnt happen? God has destroyed whole nations before for their arrogant disbelief and their killing and mocking the messengers.
Mercy comes from LOVE. How you can have mercy when you don’t have love.
As you learn, even if there are many people refused to believe, but He still love them and send messengers to remind them again and again. Even if you read, when the jews worshipped golden calf, He forgave them intead of banishing them. How Great the LOVE of God is.
In Jesus Love
Neverland
You said:
Again, it is from God’s mercy, that He chooses to send messengers who will help in getting us back on the straight path after we have diverted…but i dont know what your last sentence means…what doesnt happen? God has destroyed whole nations before for their arrogant disbelief and their killing and mocking the messengers.
Mercy comes from LOVE. How you can have mercy when you don’t have love.
As you learn, even if there are many people refused to believe, but He still love them and send messengers to remind them again and again. Even if you read, when the jews worshipped golden calf, He forgave them intead of banishing them. How Great the LOVE of God is.
In Jesus Love
Neverland
E
exoflare
Guest
I didn’t know anyone could be so afraid to say the “L” word. 
F
Faith101
Guest
Peace
according to christianity, what happenend to the people of Lot and the people of Noah?
E
exoflare
Guest
They chose separation from God.
F
Faith101
Guest
Muslims believe Allah is the Loving as well as the Most-Merciful…but we also know that He is capable of punishing with the severest of punishments.
Not everything is love, love, love…God has destroyed people before, whole nations for disobeying Him and refusing to repent and change their ways.
J
janG
Guest
Fear of the Lord is the BEGINNING of wisdom. Perhaps you should ask God which message is from Him and which is not.
Matthew 5:
[10] "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
{43] "You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
[44] But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
[45] so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
[46] For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
[47] And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
[48] You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Romans 12:
[14] Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
[17] Repay no one evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.
[18] If possible, so far as it depends upon you, live peaceably with all.
[19] Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
[20] No, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head.”
[21] Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Proverbs 26:
[24] He who hates, dissembles with his lips
and harbors deceit in his heart;
[25] when he speaks graciously, believe him not,
for there are seven abominations in his heart;
[26] though his hatred be covered with guile,
his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly.
002.191
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for PERSECUTION is worse than slaughter…
Volume 4, Book 56, Number 660:
Narrated 'Aisha and Ibn 'Abbas:
On his death-bed Allah’s Apostle put a sheet over his-face and when he felt hot, he would remove it from his face. When in that state (of putting and removing the sheet) he said, “May Allah’s Curse be on the Jews and the Christians for they build places of worship at the graves of their prophets.”
Book 41, Number 5186:
Narrated AbuHurayrah:
Suhayl ibn AbuSalih said: I went out with my father to Syria. The people passed by the cloisters in which there were Christians and began to salute them. My father said: Do not give them salutation first, for AbuHurayrah reported the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) as saying: Do not salute them (Jews and Christians) first, and when you meet them on the road, force them to go to the narrowest part of it.
Volume 3, Book 34, Number 426:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
Once 'Umar was informed that a certain man sold alcohol. 'Umar said, “May Allah curse him! Doesn’t he know that Allah’s Apostle said, 'May Allah curse the Jews, for Allah had forbidden them to eat the fat of animals but they melted it and sold it.”
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah’s Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O ‘Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.’ "
Book 19, Number 3040:
Narrated Ubaydullah:
Harb ibn Ubaydullah told on the authority of his grandfather, his mother’s father, that he had it on the authority of his father that the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Tithes are to be levied on Jews and Christians, but not on Muslims.
Matt 15:
8] `This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
[9] in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’"
[14] …they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
Matthew 5:
[10] "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
{43] "You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
[44] But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
[45] so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
[46] For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
[47] And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
[48] You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Romans 12:
[14] Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
[17] Repay no one evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.
[18] If possible, so far as it depends upon you, live peaceably with all.
[19] Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
[20] No, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head.”
[21] Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Proverbs 26:
[24] He who hates, dissembles with his lips
and harbors deceit in his heart;
[25] when he speaks graciously, believe him not,
for there are seven abominations in his heart;
[26] though his hatred be covered with guile,
his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly.
002.191
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for PERSECUTION is worse than slaughter…
Volume 4, Book 56, Number 660:
Narrated 'Aisha and Ibn 'Abbas:
On his death-bed Allah’s Apostle put a sheet over his-face and when he felt hot, he would remove it from his face. When in that state (of putting and removing the sheet) he said, “May Allah’s Curse be on the Jews and the Christians for they build places of worship at the graves of their prophets.”
Book 41, Number 5186:
Narrated AbuHurayrah:
Suhayl ibn AbuSalih said: I went out with my father to Syria. The people passed by the cloisters in which there were Christians and began to salute them. My father said: Do not give them salutation first, for AbuHurayrah reported the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) as saying: Do not salute them (Jews and Christians) first, and when you meet them on the road, force them to go to the narrowest part of it.
Volume 3, Book 34, Number 426:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
Once 'Umar was informed that a certain man sold alcohol. 'Umar said, “May Allah curse him! Doesn’t he know that Allah’s Apostle said, 'May Allah curse the Jews, for Allah had forbidden them to eat the fat of animals but they melted it and sold it.”
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah’s Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O ‘Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.’ "
Book 19, Number 3040:
Narrated Ubaydullah:
Harb ibn Ubaydullah told on the authority of his grandfather, his mother’s father, that he had it on the authority of his father that the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Tithes are to be levied on Jews and Christians, but not on Muslims.
Matt 15:
8] `This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
[9] in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’"
[14] …they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
N
Neverland
Guest
Dear Faith,
Peace
according to christianity, what happenend to the people of Lot and the people of Noah?
You mean the people with whom Lot (Sodom) and Noah lived? But tell me, do you think God never sent messengers to them again and again, before deciding so?
They were punished at last dear Faith. Because God loves, but God is also just. If after many warnings one still is evil, of course God must treat them justly. That’s why he also created HELL although He wants us all to go to Heaven, but He gives us a freedom to choose. And He never tells us to kill people who disbelieve Him. He can do it, as you see in the case of Lot, Noah, Egypt.
In Jesus Love
Neverland
Peace
according to christianity, what happenend to the people of Lot and the people of Noah?
You mean the people with whom Lot (Sodom) and Noah lived? But tell me, do you think God never sent messengers to them again and again, before deciding so?
They were punished at last dear Faith. Because God loves, but God is also just. If after many warnings one still is evil, of course God must treat them justly. That’s why he also created HELL although He wants us all to go to Heaven, but He gives us a freedom to choose. And He never tells us to kill people who disbelieve Him. He can do it, as you see in the case of Lot, Noah, Egypt.
In Jesus Love
Neverland
C
Carmelo
Guest
C
Carmelo
Guest
If you say so; however, that God’s love in unconditional is simply wishful thinking on the part of some sinners, no more, no less. Where does it say that God’s love is unconditional. If we have to repent before we are forgiven, that means His love is conditional upon repentance. His love cannot be conditional upon repentance and be unconditional at the same time – not from where I come from. I, too, wish His love were unconditional, but it cannot be because of our free will.
uch:
uch:
C
Carmelo
Guest
Therefore, if God excludes those who exclude themselves, then his love is not unconditional, it is conditional on people not excluding themselves. In other words, God’s love would be unconditional if one could keep on sinning, would have intention of not stopping, would not care about repentance and would be welcomed with open arms by all the saints and the Trinity in Heaven. If that were so, what are we doing here on Earth, we should be in Heaven. Why not kill everyone and help them all to be with Jesus ASAP. Such foolishness is unbelievable by rational people. Perhaps, some people are forgetting that the devil exist and he is looking for some company down under.: tsktsk:Thanks guys for your response
I agree that the guidance of God excludes no one, except those who exclude themselves.
In light of the verses you posted, how do you understand this verse (which talks about those who do major sins):
Leviticus 26:30 I will destroy your high places, and break your idols. You shall fall among the ruins of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
Does God love all sinners? Is it an unconditional love, and if so what do you make of the above verse
Thanks again
- Status