God Save the Queen!

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Crusading_Canuk

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Hi, as my profile states I am a Traditional Roman Catholic but there is also one other thing… I’m a High Tory. A High Tory is a extremely traditional conservative in the Commonwealth (I’m a Canadian as my profile name suggests) who believes strongly in the institution of the British Monarchy. The only other traditionalist I know finds it odd that I’,m a monarchist due to past actions of British monarchs. So is there anything contradictory about being a Traditionalist Catholic and a High Tory? Because there are few things I believe in as strongly as the monarchy but my Faith comes first. I see no contradiction but was looking for some (name removed by moderator)ut from my fellow Traditional Catholics.

Also, this is a high Tory blog I recently subscribed to:

hightory.com/about-the-blog/
 
Maybe the answer to your question (if there is one) is in your title.

I realize it’s part of the British National Anthem (I know as I used to live in the UK) but why is it “God Save the Queen”? Save her from what? Why isn’t it “God Bless the Queen,” as they would probable render it in the US?
 
ProVobis said:
I realize it’s part of the British National Anthem (I know as I used to live in the UK) but why is it “God Save the Queen”? Save her from what? Why isn’t it “God Bless the Queen,” as they would probable render it in the US?
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It is God Save the Queen, or God Save the King, because it was first sung after a defeat during one of the Jacobite uprisings in the 18th century. At least that is my understanding.
 
SyCarl said:
It is God Save the Queen, or God Save the King, because it was first sung after a defeat during one of the Jacobite uprisings in the 18th century. At least that is my understanding.
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I’m pretty sure your right in that, there is some evidence it comes from a latin hymn for the safety of King James II (a Catholic) but nobody’s really sure. Also, my question wether or not there was any religious reason for me not to be a High Tory.
 
SyCarl said:
It is God Save the Queen, or God Save the King, because it was first sung after a defeat during one of the Jacobite uprisings in the 18th century. At least that is my understanding.
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And yelled by anyone running a marathon, with their toung firmly planted in their cheek, at the 24 mile marker in honor of the Queen of England’s decision durning the 1908 olympics to increase the running distance from 24 miles to 26.2 so that the royal family could better view the end of the race.

Other suitable words referencing the Queen are often substituted by less charitable, and presumably less well trained runners.

-Tim-
 
Render unto God what is God’s and render unto caesar what is caesar’s.
 
1st of all, I am not British, and so cannot relate to the love of monarchy.

That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with patriotism, including attachment to the institutions of one’s civil state. Their history relative to the Catholic Church is beside the point, as you were not alive then, and those conditions no longer exist.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.
 
ProVobis said:
Maybe the answer to your question (if there is one) is in your title.

I realize it’s part of the British National Anthem (I know as I used to live in the UK) but why is it “God Save the Queen”? Save her from what? Why isn’t it “God Bless the Queen,” as they would probable render it in the US?
Click to expand...
I have never queried why our anthem is so. It must be because I am of the thought that no one is in a better position to save you, I and HRH from whatever than God. 🙂
 
Crusading_Canuk said:
Hi, as my profile states I am a Traditional Roman Catholic but there is also one other thing… I’m a High Tory. A High Tory is a extremely traditional conservative in the Commonwealth (I’m a Canadian as my profile name suggests) who believes strongly in the institution of the British Monarchy. The only other traditionalist I know finds it odd that I’,m a monarchist due to past actions of British monarchs. So is there anything contradictory about being a Traditionalist Catholic and a High Tory? Because there are few things I believe in as strongly as the monarchy but my Faith comes first. I see no contradiction but was looking for some (name removed by moderator)ut from my fellow Traditional Catholics.

Also, this is a high Tory blog I recently subscribed to:

hightory.com/about-the-blog/
Click to expand...
At risk of drifting off-topic:

The original, 17th Century, Tories were supporters of the Catholic soon-to-be-King James II; so the idea of a Catholic being a Tory isn’t that strange historically. At that point, Catholicism was seen to stand for the sort of Absolute Monarchy seen in France under King Louis, and Protestants wanting to stigmatise James’ Catholic supporters called them tóraidhes, the Irish word for an outlaw (Ireland being Catholic of course). Not to be outdone: the Protestants were called Whiggamores, the Scottish equivalent; this is where the word Whig came from.
 
I am an English Catholic with a preference for the EF Mass who is also a supporter of the Monarchy. I see no contradiction between my faith and loyalty to my Queen. However, I acknowledge the fact that the British Monarchy has been at odds with the Catholic faith in the past, but this is no longer the case.

The important thing to remember is that the Queen is a devout Christian. The fact that the Head of State is a Christian is one factor that will protect the Christian identity of Great Britain. The fact that the Queen is a devoted Christian sends the message that Britain continues to be a Christian nation. The Queen reminds us that our nation (and the Commonwealth) was founded upon Christian principals.

I support the Monarchy for cultural reasons. The Monarchy makes England unique. We are one of the only nations who continue to have a constitutional Monarchy. The Queen guarantees political stability and she continues to play an important role in the life of my nation.

There is no contradiction in the fact that you are a Catholic Monarchist. The two are not at odds with each other. That may have been the case in previous centuries, but things have changed. The Queen is a supporter of the Christian faith, and that is good enough for me. Britain is a multi-religious society, and the Queen guarantees that Christianity will remain the official religion of the state.

I am pleased to hear that you support the Monarchy. Never forget that Queen Elizabeth is also Queen of Canada! This doesn’t mean that she interferes with the affairs of Canada, but it reminds us of our common identity and history. We share the same roots. The Queen is a symbol of the close historical and cultural links between our respective nations.

A lot of people resent the British monarchy because of things that have happened in the past. These people need to remember that the current monarch was not responsible for the things that happened in the past. They also need to remember that the British people alive today had nothing to do with the things that happened in the past. Resentment towards the Queen is unwarranted. Furthermore, they need to remember that a lot of previous British Monarchs were also faithful Catholics!

Support your Queen and live your Catholic faith.
She is a faithful Christian and she supports Christian principals and ethics.
A lot of British Monarchs were faithful Catholics.
The resentment towards the contemporary Monarchy is unwarranted.
*
Long may she reign;
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen!

Not in this land alone,
But be God’s mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world over.*
 
St. Thomas More was loyal to both the monarchy and the Catholic Church. He was put in the position where he had to choose between them. As long as you are prepared to make the same choice, I see no reason you cannot be a High Tory.
 
Crusading_Canuk said:
Hi, as my profile states I am a Traditional Roman Catholic but there is also one other thing… I’m a High Tory. A High Tory is a extremely traditional conservative in the Commonwealth (I’m a Canadian as my profile name suggests) who believes strongly in the institution of the British Monarchy. The only other traditionalist I know finds it odd that I’,m a monarchist due to past actions of British monarchs. So is there anything contradictory about being a Traditionalist Catholic and a High Tory? Because there are few things I believe in as strongly as the monarchy but my Faith comes first. I see no contradiction but was looking for some (name removed by moderator)ut from my fellow Traditional Catholics.

Also, this is a high Tory blog I recently subscribed to:

hightory.com/about-the-blog/
Click to expand...
God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen:
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the Queen.
Click to expand...
:gopray::gopray:

Don’t worry about it, I’ld support any move by parliament to actually give HRH some power, but I generally vote who i believe serve the common Good, this past election it was the Tories, next time it might be the English Democrats or the Christian party, all we should do is support the Common Good, voting for who will represent our moral conscience, and not liberalize society further.
 
If the monarchy was Catholic, then there would be a reason to support them.
 
EVERY SINGLE uprising against an established monarchy that is of significant history, usually ends up in a worse situation than when the monarch was ruling. Look at czarist Russia, and its fall to communism, look at the french revolution, look at all the blood y wars of the kings of england.

Very rarely are people actually better off, and quite often the new form of government has more restrictions and impositions than the monarchy that preceded it!
 
Gregory_I said:
Look at czarist Russia, and its fall to communism, look at the french revolution, look at all the blood y wars of the kings of england.
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FWIW,

These all seemed to be a followup to the earlier barbaric invasions of the Anglo-Saxons, the Goths, Lombards, etc. Good map here.

wwnorton.com/college/history/ralph/resource/barbaria.htm

I may be wrong on this but the reason for the gospel side being preached partly to the north (in the ad orientem position of the altar) was to address these barbarians.

More history here.

anglo-saxons.net/hwaet/

great-britain.co.uk/history/ang-sax.htm

historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/BritishMapAD550.htm

phancocks.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/localhistory/germanic.htm

mockingbird.creighton.edu/english/fajardo/teaching/eng520/anglosax.htm
 
Well, we have one as Vice President and another as Speaker in the House, the first and second, respectively, in line for the Presidency. And one who ran for Presidency in 2004, whom the British probably wanted to have won. But many of the elected officials here are CINO so I don’t think it’s a real issue. OTOH, I see Tony Blair waited until after his term to convert to Catholicism. What’s the message there?
 
Dempsey1919 said:
I am an English Catholic with a preference for the EF Mass who is also a supporter of the Monarchy. I see no contradiction between my faith and loyalty to my Queen. However, I acknowledge the fact that the British Monarchy has been at odds with the Catholic faith in the past, but this is no longer the case.

The important thing to remember is that the Queen is a devout Christian. The fact that the Head of State is a Christian is one factor that will protect the Christian identity of Great Britain. The fact that the Queen is a devoted Christian sends the message that Britain continues to be a Christian nation. The Queen reminds us that our nation (and the Commonwealth) was founded upon Christian principals.

I support the Monarchy for cultural reasons. The Monarchy makes England unique. We are one of the only nations who continue to have a constitutional Monarchy. The Queen guarantees political stability and she continues to play an important role in the life of my nation.

There is no contradiction in the fact that you are a Catholic Monarchist. The two are not at odds with each other. That may have been the case in previous centuries, but things have changed. The Queen is a supporter of the Christian faith, and that is good enough for me. Britain is a multi-religious society, and the Queen guarantees that Christianity will remain the official religion of the state.

I am pleased to hear that you support the Monarchy. Never forget that Queen Elizabeth is also Queen of Canada! This doesn’t mean that she interferes with the affairs of Canada, but it reminds us of our common identity and history. We share the same roots. The Queen is a symbol of the close historical and cultural links between our respective nations.

A lot of people resent the British monarchy because of things that have happened in the past. These people need to remember that the current monarch was not responsible for the things that happened in the past. They also need to remember that the British people alive today had nothing to do with the things that happened in the past. Resentment towards the Queen is unwarranted. Furthermore, they need to remember that a lot of previous British Monarchs were also faithful Catholics!

Support your Queen and live your Catholic faith.
She is a faithful Christian and she supports Christian principals and ethics.
A lot of British Monarchs were faithful Catholics.
The resentment towards the contemporary Monarchy is unwarranted.
*
Long may she reign;
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen!

Not in this land alone,
But be God’s mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world over.*
Click to expand...
I’m with you, Dempsey-and I’m from the USA, and half-Irish to boot! Great post! 👍

I happen to like Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth. Always have, and always will.

She’s a real Christian lady. She has always respected Catholics-witness her warm welcome to our Holy Father last September. She even called the late Cardinal Hume, ‘My Cardinal’.

I join you (and all loyal Brits and members of the Commonwealth of Nations) in saying, ‘GOD SAVE THE QUEEN’!
 
barb_finnegan said:
I happen to like Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth. Always have, and always will.

She’s a real Christian lady. She has always respected Catholics-witness her warm welcome to our Holy Father last September. She even called the late Cardinal Hume, ‘My Cardinal’.

I join you (and all loyal Brits and members of the Commonwealth of Nations) in saying, ‘GOD SAVE THE QUEEN’!
Click to expand...
No doubt England is better with her than with someone else. However, I don’t think that warrants canonization either. Not yet, anyway. 🙂
 
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