God tells us in His written word that Jesus was born of a virgin, He didn't tell us a sinless virgin

[larry_m]

…teachings of Jesus from which ALL Catholicism comes from]

Thats a pretty bold statement considering 75% of Catholic teachings are Paganistic in nature. Such as, prayers for the dead, sign of the cross, wax candles, veneration of dead saints & angels, daily Mass, worship of Mary, prayers to Mary who is called Queen of Heaven, a pagan idol of Jer.44:18,19,the Papacy, the kissing of Peters feet, holy water, baptism of bells, fasting on Fridays & Lent, celibacy of priests, nuns, The Rosary, adoration of the wafer. Notice what your own Cardinal Newman said in his book, “The Development of the Christian Religion,” “Temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, holidays & season of devotions, processions, blessing of fields, sacredotal vestments, the tonsure of priests , monks & nuns, images… are all of pagan origin…” (page 359. Sure doesn’t sound like ALL teachings & traditions came from Christ or the Apostles.

 

[VociMike]

Thats a pretty bold statement considering 75% of Catholic teachings are Paganistic in nature. Such as, prayers for the dead, sign of the cross, wax candles, veneration of dead saints & angels, daily Mass, worship of Mary, prayers to Mary who is called Queen of Heaven, a pagan idol of Jer.44:18,19,the Papacy, the kissing of Peters feet, holy water, baptism of bells, fasting on Fridays & Lent, celibacy of priests, nuns, The Rosary, adoration of the wafer. Notice what your own Cardinal Newman said in his book, “The Development of the Christian Religion,” “Temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, holidays & season of devotions, processions, blessing of fields, sacredotal vestments, the tonsure of priests , monks & nuns, images… are all of pagan origin…” (page 359. Sure doesn’t sound like ALL teachings & traditions came from Christ or the Apostles.

Somebody’s been reading Boettner again.

BTW, books of sacred writings are also of pagan origin. So are religious worship services. So are worship structures. So are priests/preachers. So is sacred music. So is the use of water in religious rituals. The list could go on and on. Logical conclusion - you must reject Christianity. Right?

Hmm, I wonder how many of the things Jesus Christ did were first done by pagans? I guess that means Christ isn’t God.

Of course Catholicism, being a faith of the Incarnation, has no such problems with any of this stuff, any more than Jesus Christ had any such problems.

 

[adstrinity]

guanophore;4256093:

…teachings of Jesus from which ALL Catholicism comes from]

Thats a pretty bold statement considering 75% of Catholic teachings are Paganistic in nature. Such as, prayers for the dead, sign of the cross, wax candles, veneration of dead saints & angels, daily Mass, worship of Mary, prayers to Mary who is called Queen of Heaven, a pagan idol of Jer.44:18,19,the Papacy, the kissing of Peters feet, holy water, baptism of bells, fasting on Fridays & Lent, celibacy of priests, nuns, The Rosary, adoration of the wafer. Notice what your own Cardinal Newman said in his book, “The Development of the Christian Religion,” “Temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, holidays & season of devotions, processions, blessing of fields, sacredotal vestments, the tonsure of priests , monks & nuns, images… are all of pagan origin…” (page 359. Sure doesn’t sound like ALL teachings & traditions came from Christ or the Apostles.

Please learn how to quote properly.

Please learn how to cite properly. Page 359 of what?

I assure you ALL teachings and traditions in the Catholic Church came from Christ. ALL of them. EACH AND EVERY ALL SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

I’ve never kissed Peter’s feet, incidentally.

You oppose wax candles and oil lamps? On what Biblical grounds do you oppose wax candles and oil lamps?

 

[larry_m]

[Learn how to cite. Page 359 of what?]

Let me walk you through it. At the beginning of the quote of the Cardinal, I wrote the name of his book of which I cited. At the end of his statement, the Cardinals, I gave the page number of his quotation in the book I gave before his statement. I hope that helps in your quest of the name of the book of which I gave the page number of. You might want to read a little slower to see what was written.

 

[adstrinity]

[Learn how to cite. Page 359 of what?]

Let me walk you through it. At the beginning of the quote of the Cardinal, I wrote the name of his book of which I cited. At the end of his statement, the Cardinals, I gave the page number of his quotation in the book I gave before his statement. I hope that helps in your quest of the name of the book of which I gave the page number of. You might want to read a little slower to see what was written.

Ta muchly!! You did help!

You’ve read Cardinal Newman?

 

[RNRobert]

What is your goal here, emerald? Surely you realize by now that we are not going to abandon the Apostolic Teaching so that we can embrace your flawed interpretation of one scripture verse. What do you hope to accomplish?

I wonder the same thing myself.

 

[RNRobert]

Somebody’s been reading Boettner again.

Yup! :yup:

BTW, books of sacred writings are also of pagan origin. So are religious worship services. So are worship structures. So are priests/preachers. So is sacred music. So is the use of water in religious rituals. The list could go on and on. Logical conclusion - you must reject Christianity. Right?

Hmm, I wonder how many of the things Jesus Christ did were first done by pagans? I guess that means Christ isn’t God.

Of course Catholicism, being a faith of the Incarnation, has no such problems with any of this stuff, any more than Jesus Christ had any such problems.

Not to mention that many pagan cultures had stories about a dying God.

 

[justasking4]

VociMike;4255957]
justasking4
Since you claim your church was there can you give me a couple of specific and explicit examples of what the apostles themselves taught about Mary being sinless not found in the NT?

VociMike
Yes, they taught that Mary was sinless. What more do you want?

Where? What non NT writings do they teach this?

Quote:justasking4
No need to be there to make my point. No one can make such a claim today anyway. Rather what we can do is to compare doctrines and practices of the Catholic church with the Scriptures and see if they are the same. We know in a number of places they are not the same. The Marian doctrines for example were never taught by the apostles.

VociMike
You keep making the same unsupported claim over and over. How do you know what was taught by the apostles? Were you there? The Church was there.

The only thing we know what the apostles taught can be found in the NT. There are no other writings of the apostles.

Quote:justasking4
The “all who sinned” would include Mary.
VociMike
Then it must also include newborn babies. What sins have newborn babies committed?

None. However they share in the fall of Adam.

Quote:justasking4
Is it not true that babies are baptized because they come into the world with original sin and baptism washes that away.

VociMike
You don’t understand original sin. Your phrase “with original sin” is so vague as to be meaningless.

Please enlighten me then. What does your church say about this?

If all have sinned, what sin has a newborn baby committed?

See above

Have newborn babies committed original sin?

Original sin is not about “committing” but about about the sin that Adam committed made all others after him sinners. See Romans 5:19

 

[justasking4]

sodak;4256198]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Where in Scripture does it even hint that being full of grace means you can’t sin?

Where did Jesus say anything about Mary being a treasure and that you should implore her help? Where in Scripture did He say such a thing?

sodak
Who ever said that it had to be in Scripture? Ask the authors.

The only thing we know of Mary is to be found in the NT. That’s why it has to be there. If its not there then you have the speculations of men and not of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
The only thing the church has from the apostles is the written NT. To claim there is more is to go beyond what is written and would not be of the apostles.

sodak
Absolutely 100% false.

The give me an example of a teaching of an apostle who taught something that is not in the NT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
What is important is the truth and the truth is that Mary was not sinless for the mere fact the Scriptures never make such a claim for her.

sodak
By that argument, I don’t owe any taxes this year because the Scriptures don’t say that I do.

It is you and others who are making the claim she was sinless and so you bear the burden of proof on this. We already know the Scriptures don’t even come close to claiming she was sinless. Not one verse in context even hints at such an idea.

 

[justasking4]

RNRobert;4256522]
Originally Posted by guanophore
What is your goal here, emerald? Surely you realize by now that we are not going to abandon the Apostolic Teaching so that we can embrace your flawed interpretation of one scripture verse. What do you hope to accomplish?
RNRobert
I wonder the same thing myself.

i wonder to… View attachment 4252

To bad this is off topic…View attachment 4251

 

[Michael_Francis]

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