God Wills Relationship with Us - Need Bible Reference

[in_servitude]

I’m looking for bible references that will plainly state that the divine will of God is for us to be in relationship with Him prior to our death. (Unless God does actually not will relationship with us - then that would be good to know…)

1 John 3:1-3

1 See what love the Father has bestowed on us that we may be called the children of God. Yet so we are. The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 Everyone who has this hope based on him makes himself pure, as he is pure.

This quote doesn’t quite do it for me as I’m talking about desiring to be in relationship with us while we are on earth.

Acts 17:26-27

26 He made from one the whole human race to dwell on the entire surface of the earth, and he fixed the ordered seasons and the boundaries of their regions, 27 so that people might seek God, even perhaps grope for him and find him, though indeed he is not far from any one of us.

This is closer, but it still doesn’t say that God wills relationship with us.

I’m not questioning that God does will relationship with us, so I don’t want this thread to about opinions and the like. I’m just looking for scriptural references.

 

[Gorgias]

1 Timothy 2:3-4 asserts that “God … wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.”

 

[in_servitude]

1 Timothy 2:3-4 asserts that “God … wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.”

That could be interpreted to mean that God wants a relationship after we are dead, but doesn’t care to have one prior to our death. This is a logically flawed objection, so I understand that this can work.

The reason for this thread is that I’m engaged in a conversation with a person with an odd theology. He believes the bible to be the word of God, and that Jesus is divine. But, he is also convinced that God does not interact with humans at all. To him, that explains why bad things happen (like children getting murdered, etc.)

So, if there is something that makes it plain, that is what I need. Without that, it will be a more complicated explanation.

 

[Todd977]

17 Therefore come out from them,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch nothing unclean;
then I will welcome you,
18 and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be my sons and daughters,
says the Lord Almighty.” (2 Cor 6:17-18)

 

[grannymh]

I’m looking for bible references that will plainly state that the divine will of God is for us to be in relationship with Him prior to our death. (Unless God does actually not will relationship with us - then that would be good to know…)

1 John 3:1-3

This quote doesn’t quite do it for me as I’m talking about desiring to be in relationship with us while we are on earth.

Acts 17:26-27

This is closer, but it still doesn’t say that God wills relationship with us.

I’m not questioning that God does will relationship with us, so I don’t want this thread to about opinions and the like. I’m just looking for scriptural references.

Genesis 1: 27
God created mankind in His image;
in the image of God He created them;
male and female* He created them.
In the beginning of the amazing first chapter of Genesis, we find God creating the animals with their material anatomies. God saw how good it was. (Genesis 1: 25) Yes, the animals are marvelous. It is the shift from Genesis 1: 25 to Genesis 1: 26 where we see a change in God’s language. The animals are still in the picture, but there is the clear reference to a new being who will have dominion over the material animals.
Genesis 1: 26
Then God said: Let us make* human beings in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the tame animals, all the wild animals, and all the creatures that crawl on the earth.
Taken together, Genesis 1: 26 and Genesis 1: 27 can be viewed as a specific new action of creation. These two verses basically emphasize the importance of what is now a new creation, a true human person who is above all other creatures. Something has to happen for new material humans to be in a relationship with the spiritual Creator. And that something, which we now know as our rational spiritual soul, is the spiritual which gives our decomposing material anatomy the ability to have a friendship relationship with our spiritual Creator.

Only God can give us our spiritual nature. The reason for our spiritual nature is that God has designed us so that we can interact with Him. We are in His image. The spiritual soul will not be produced by the human parents. It is only God Who can immediately create the spiritual soul at conception. Individually, God wills a spiritual friendship relationship with Himself. It is up to us to freely decide how we will handle that friendship relationship before we die.

Genesis 1: 27 is evidence that the first humans and all future humans, in their own unique nature, will unite the material world with the spiritual world. This unique union exists because the desire of the Creator God is to have a real friendship relationship with each person before the material anatomy dies.

Link to Scripture verses
usccb.org/bible/genesis/1

 

[po18guy]

Sounds like you are discussing with a Calvinist? What comes to mind is:

Wisdom of Solomon 1:11-16
Seek not death in the error of your life, neither procure ye destruction by the works of your hands. For God made not death, neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the living. For he created all things, that they might be: and he made the nations of the earth for health: and there is no poison of destruction in them, nor kingdom of hell upon the earth. For justice is perpetual and immortal. But the wicked, with works and words have called it* to them: and esteeming it a friend, have fallen away, and have made a covenant with it: because they are worthy to be of the part thereof.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him, and he with Me.

Revelation 3:20

 

[fhansen]

**“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them**. John 14:15-23

 

[in_servitude]

Sounds like you are discussing with a Calvinist?

Here’s my best way to explain it:

• Raised Catholic
• Dad dies at 10 of cancer despite prayers (which he was told would save his dad)
• Mom dies at 20 of cancer - he’s pretty much atheist at this point
• Post college, he sees that Creation is somehow designed - so moves toward deism
• At 30, sees that the bible contains too much truth to be ignored, so believes in bible and Jesus.
• His past experience says God doesn’t help those that need help.
• He admires the Catholic Church’s commitment to the unborn - the rest is viewed negatively.
• He is 35 now. In the past 6 years, he continues to grow in his faith (he is one of the unique ones that will adjust his beliefs when he sees the Truth). But, it will be difficult to reconcile a God who let his dad die with one who is involved. Add all the other bad stuff that is out there - he sees plenty of evidence to confirm his beliefs.

What comes to mind is:

Thanks for this!

 

[in_servitude]

**“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them**. John 14:15-23

Thanks - I put this to use.

 

[James248]

Isaiah 63:17a

Why,O Lord do you make us wander from your ways

and harden our hearts so that we do not revere you?

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Isaiah 63:17a

Why,O Lord do you make us wander from your ways

and harden our hearts so that we do not revere you?

~
Isaiah is probably referencing all of Israel. Please understand,
the Lord always gives the Grace (Divine not Merited Favor)
to follow Him. This reminds me of a Scripture in Thess. where
God says, * God does not delude anyone. But because the
world refuses to follow Him, He allows the sorrow of seducing
teaching; but The Light is always here through Jesus Christ for
us to follow.
And please understand, that Jesus said that those who sin in ignorance
will receive less stripes though they deserve more, but to whom much
is given, much is required. There is a joy from God that is indescribable
to strive to surrender to His Grace and Strength to seek to live up to ‘much required.’
There also is a taste of His Peace, which is beyond human comprehension.
So please do not think that ignorance is bliss.
~
The Church, by Jesus’ Promises to the Apostles is a trustworthy interpreter
of Scripture. But only through the Teaching Authority, of what is officially
defined and taught.
~
God Bless, and Peace*

 

[James248]

~
Isaiah is probably referencing all of Israel. Please understand,
the Lord always gives the Grace (Divine not Merited Favor)
to follow Him. This reminds me of a Scripture in Thess. where
God says, * God does not delude anyone. But because the
world refuses to follow Him, He allows the sorrow of seducing
teaching; but The Light is always here through Jesus Christ for
us to follow.
And please understand, that Jesus said that those who sin in ignorance
will receive less stripes though they deserve more, but to whom much
is given, much is required. There is a joy from God that is indescribable
to strive to surrender to His Grace and Strength to seek to live up to ‘much required.’
There also is a taste of His Peace, which is beyond human comprehension.
So please do not think that ignorance is bliss.
~
The Church, by Jesus’ Promises to the Apostles is a trustworthy interpreter
of Scripture. But only through the Teaching Authority, of what is officially
defined and taught.
~
God Bless, and Peace*

I was using that as a verse for free will.

 

[seagal]

Matthew 6:7-13

7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,a]
but deliver us from the evil one.

Matthew 6:25-33

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your lifee]?
28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Matthew 7:9-11

9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!

 

[jcrichton]

I’m looking for bible references that will plainly state that the divine will of God is for us to be in relationship with Him prior to our death. (Unless God does actually not will relationship with us - then that would be good to know…)

1 John 3:1-3

This quote doesn’t quite do it for me as I’m talking about desiring to be in relationship with us while we are on earth.

Acts 17:26-27

This is closer, but it still doesn’t say that God wills relationship with us.

I’m not questioning that God does will relationship with us, so I don’t want this thread to about opinions and the like. I’m just looking for scriptural references.

Hi!

…here’s a passage that sums up God’s intent on forming a bond with man:

6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us

. 9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. (Romans 5:6-11)
God’s Love transcends our unrighteousness and His Mercy seeks to pluck us out of damnation.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[po18guy]

But, it will be difficult to reconcile a God who let his dad die with one who is involved.

As difficult as it was, and is to see, all of this occurred for the purpose of bringing him to Christ. An example of how God allows (not causes!) evil so that He may bring good from it. He has hope of seeing both of his parents, not only again, but forever.

 

[in_servitude]

As difficult as it was, and is to see, all of this occurred for the purpose of bringing him to Christ. An example of how God allows (not causes!) evil so that He may bring good from it. He has hope of seeing both of his parents, not only again, but forever.

He does believe that hid dad died not because God caused it. He believes that nothing good came from it, however. And, he is convinced that his view that God is simply absent explains everything. He can believe that God is all loving, and that everything will be great in heaven provided that God is absent from this world. If God were present, then that would mess with his assumptions about God. He would then have to confront the reality that God was standing right there while he was asking for a cure, but then God did nothing. That would indicate (to him) that God is just a monster. (And, he thinks that everyone that believes that God is IN our lives infers that God is a monster. He thinks that he is giving God a big promotion by saying that God is absent - it explains everything in a nice and tidy way - to him.)

But, me and you do understand that when viewed through a lens that includes not only this world, but the heavenly eternal world, that good can come from the death of his father.

 

[in_servitude]

I was using that as a verse for free will.

My friend has no problem accepting free will. But, he also argues that any miraculous interaction between a person with free will and God would strip that person of their free will.

 

[po18guy]

He would then have to confront the reality that God was standing right there while he was asking for a cure, but then God did nothing.

And, if his father was cured, your friend would promptly have lapsed back into his former life. Hard to see good coming from that.

 

[in_servitude]

And, if his father was cured, your friend would promptly have lapsed back into his former life. Hard to see good coming from that.

Yes, po18guy, the two of us are on the same page.

I intend to eventually point out that his dad’s passing caused him to reflect on God and His nature for a great deal of time. That’s a good thing - so some good has come from it. That statement, however, is easy to say, but hard to experience.