God without form? Philippians 2:6

[WinterSunrise]

I’m considering converting to Catholicism, but I ran into a difficulty with Philippians 2:5-6

Have this mind among yourselves, which was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped [RSVCE]

I know that this is talking about the the divine person of the Son and his divine nature before the creation of the world. But I thought that the divine God was without form?

 

[Zach]

Form probably means nature as opposed to physical form. Maybe someone who knows the original language and translation history can answer that better. The part about not being equal to God could refer to Jesus, though God, was also human. His human nature was not equal to God.

 

[GiftofMercy]

This , I think, is discussing high and low Christology, Jesus the Son of Man and Jesus the Son of God

so the human Jesus, fully human in His incarnation on earth, compared with the fully divine Jesus of high Christology.
Jesus is God and in His incarnation had these two natures if you like.

 

[WinterSunrise]

I have understanding of that part, but it’s just the wording “form of God”.

 

[GiftofMercy]

Lets tag a really good person at explaining these things. He seems to make complicated things simple to understand

@CRM_Brother

 

[Beryllos]

I’m considering converting to Catholicism, but…

I hope this difficulty with a Scripture passage doesn’t keep you away from Catholicism!

I too would be interested in the answer to this question, but here is my guess: While the incarnation of Jesus took place at a specific time and place, the person of Jesus, fully human and fully divine, exists eternally. Maybe that means that God’s form includes human nature. This relates to the Holy Trinity which is not easy, if even possible, to understand.

 

[WinterSunrise]

I hope this difficulty with a Scripture passage doesn’t keep you away from Catholicism!

Every time I have ran into a difficulty with Catholicism in the past, it has always been resolved with high plausibility. I’m very confident that the answer I’ll eventually get here will also be highly plausible.

 

[po18guy]

Define “form”

If your conversion hinges on a single word, you might not be ready for conversion.

Rather than parse words and sentences in English that were written in a vastly different language, and which have been translated and re-translated, copied and re-copied innumerable times over almost 2,000 years, why not…

…go before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament? He is the Source and Summit of our faith. Without Him in His sacramental presence (as He promised), there is no point to our faith. Without the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, the faith is just… words.

Go before Him and sit in silence. Gaze upon Him and allow Him to address your heart in silence. And, when you become aware that He is there…

…you will be changed.

 

[Nicene]

The Greek word is morphe and is used to
express his divinity, and later to express his humanity in the same sentence. The important lesson and word in the sentence is harpagmos, translated as “a thing to be grasped”. The whole thing is actually a canticle 2:5-11

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[WinterSunrise]

The Greek word is morphe and is used to
show his divinity, and later to show his humanity in the same sentence. The important lesson and word in the sentence is harpagmos, translated as “a thing to be grasped”. The whole thing is actually a canticle 2:5-11

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

I think this is my answer!

 

[Wesrock]

I have understanding of that part, but it’s just the wording “form of God”.

St. Paul wasn’t concerned with philosophical verbiage that would develop millenia later. He’s referring to Christ as God, not a physical shape.

 

[De_Maria]

I’m considering converting to Catholicism, but I ran into a difficulty with Philippians 2:5-6

Have this mind among yourselves, which was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped [RSVCE]

My first observation is to ask a question. What would be a satisfactory way of conveying the idea that St. Paul means “of the same nature”?

Second. Here is the dictionary definition of “form”

form noun
*\ ˈfȯrm *
Definition of form (Entry 1 of 4)
1a: the shape and structure of something as distinguished from its material
the building’s massive form
b: a body (as of a person) especially in its external appearance or as distinguished from the face : FIGURE
the female form
carchaic : BEAUTY
2: the essential nature of a thing as distinguished from its matter: such as
a: IDEA sense 4c
b: the component of a thing that determines its kind
3a: established method of expression …

See definition #2 which I have bolded. I believe this is the intent St. Paul meant to convey and it fits the context.

I hope that helps.

 

[HeDa]

The US bishops conference on Philippians chapter 2. Phil 2:6-11 is commonly known as the Christ Hymn. A lot of pages showed up on Google when I search “Christ hymn Philippians”. It is likely the oldest hymn to Christ.

Philippians, CHAPTER 2

Daily Bible Readings, Podcast Audio and Videos and Prayers brought to you by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

bible.usccb.org

 

[CRM_Brother]

Hello WinterSunrise,

@Nicene, above is correct. It is a poetic version formulation of a canticle.

Morphe, however, translates badly into English. When we think of form we think of outward appearance: the shape something takes on. The Father, of course, has no physical body and is thus formless in this sense. Morphe has a different meaning. It means an outward reflection of an inner reality (essence). In Jesus’ case, his morphe of God were his external acts of divinity which revealed himself to the world. The Incarnation itself is Jesus’ morphe of God, along with his Paschal Mystery and miraculous works during his public ministry.

The English translation in various Bibles of the rest of this verse is all over the place. The original meaning of the verse in Greek is most likely nearer to: [Jesus Christ] who, while he was in the form (morphe) of God, he did not deem to be equal with God something to be held tightly. It is clunky in English so it is smoothed out in Biblical translation, but it sometimes looses some of its meaning. The verse is saying that God did not hold his divinity to himself, but instead poured out himself upon the world in Jesus Christ.

God Bless,
Br. Ben, CRM

 

[fhansen]

I know that this is talking about the the divine person of the Son and his divine nature before the creation of the world. But I thought that the divine God was without form?

In classical Greek the term denotes the essence of a thing, as opposed to any physical attributes.

 

[CRM_Brother]

We have to be careful not to read philosophical connotations into the Scriptures. The New Testament was written in Koine Greek as distinct from the Classical and High Greek of the time in which morphe would have been philosophically equivalent to essence. In Koine, it simply means any outward manifestation of an inner reality, such as a husband kissing his wife as a morphe of his love for her.

 

[fhansen]

Alright, thank you. In any case the concept has nothing to do with physical shape.