Gods "Chosen" People don't have to believe in Christ?

[JillianRose]

Hello-

What does the Catholic faith teach about who the Jewish who do not accept Christ but according to the Bible are “Gods Chosen people”? Do the Jewish people get to go to heaven when they die without knowing Christ? Why do Christian faiths defend Isreal so much? Why do we defend them and not the muslims? Aren’t they the same? They both deny the trinity. Just asking. I keep hearing people talking about isreal being GOD’s chosen people?

 

[thistle]

Hello-

What does the Catholic faith teach about who the Jewish who do not accept Christ but according to the Bible are “Gods Chosen people”? Do the Jewish people get to go to heaven when they die without knowing Christ? Why do Christian faiths defend Isreal so much? Why do we defend them and not the muslims? Aren’t they the same? They both deny the trinity. Just asking. I keep hearing people talking about isreal being GOD’s chosen people?

Anyone who consciously rejects Christ and his Church and dies unrepentant will not be saved.

As for the Jewish people remember that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism and the two are inextricably linked. Its just that some of them didn’t quite get the message. Personally, I think God will open their eyes before the end and offer another chance for them to see the light.

Islam is not the same. It is a false religion which teaches Jews and Christians are enemies and teaches they should be killed. This is why its so easy for the lunatic Islamic extremists to justify their murders because they can point to these teachings.

 

[COPLAND_3]

Being Jewish alone never was a ticket to heaven, its always been faith. Those who were among the faithful followed a covenant that looked to the coming Christ, while among the faithful now are those who follow that same Christ who has already come. Those of Judiasm now are among a religion that rejects the Messiah Jesus, and that is not a chosen people. Jews were the first Christians, they actually got it. Those Jews who kept following the Old Law followed a shadow and missed the reality. Being chosen was always based on Christ, back then it was those looking to Christ to come, but when He came the chosen are those who follow the Christ who came.

 

[fisherman_carl]

" Father loves the Son and has given everything over to him. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him."

• Jn 3:36

 

[MollyMac]

" Father loves the Son and has given everything over to him. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him."

• Jn 3:36

Here is another one that coukd explain it.
"It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” Romans 9 :6-7

 

[JillianRose]

Here is another one that coukd explain it.
"It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” Romans 9 :6-7

So is it because the Muslim are from Ismael ?

 

[Todd_Easton]

So is it because the Muslim are from Ismael ?

Not really. It is because the Jewish faith “is already a response to God’s revelation.”

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People.
When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, “the first to hear the Word of God.” The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Testament. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the partriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”; “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”
And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one [Christians] awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other [Jews] awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 839-840)

Since the Church does not recognize the prophet of Islam, Mohammed, as a true prophet, the Church does not consider what he taught to be God’s revelation, except the things he taught that agree with Judaism or Christianity.

 

[JillianRose]

Well then do we choose God or does God Choose us? Is then the definition of those who follow God called “Israel”? That Christians are the "nation of Israel? Then who are the Gentiles since Jesus came for Jews and Gentiles alike?

 

[Todd_Easton]

The Jewish People still have an important role to play in salvation history.
The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by “all Israel,” for “a hardening has come upon part of Israel” in their “unbelief” toward Jesus. … The “full inclusion” of the Jews in the Messiah’s salvation, in the wake of “the full number of the Gentiles,” will enable the People of God to achieve “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,” in which “God may be all in all.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 674)

 

[wiggbuggie]

The jewish people are still Gods chosen people and we know God keeps his promises. I would also like the church to minister more to jews showing that Jesus is messiah groups like jews for jesus, dr michael brown and messianic judiasm is growing. One of the signs before Christ will come back is a awakening to the gospel in Isreal.

Matthew 23:39
For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

John 4:22
You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Romans 11:25-26
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

 

[MollyMac]

Being Jewish alone never was a ticket to heaven, its always been faith. Those who were among the faithful followed a covenant that looked to the coming Christ, while among the faithful now are those who follow that same Christ who has already come. Those of Judiasm now are among a religion that rejects the Messiah Jesus, and that is not a chosen people. Jews were the first Christians, they actually got it. Those Jews who kept following the Old Law followed a shadow and missed the reality. Being chosen was always based on Christ, back then it was those looking to Christ to come, but when He came the chosen are those who follow the Christ who came.

I agree. You can see the line form throughout the Old Testament. Abraham to Isaac [not Ishmael or any other children] to Jacob/“Israel” (not Esau) to Joseph where the Israelites start to be called “Israel”, and so on. If you weren’t of that line then you weren’t part of the covenants God had set up with “Israel”. Which meant that you were not of ***chosen ***Israel.

 

[MollyMac]

Well then do we choose God or does God Choose us? Is then the definition of those who follow God called “Israel”? That Christians are the "nation of Israel? Then who are the Gentiles since Jesus came for Jews and Gentiles alike?

I am a Gentile that was grafted into the tree that provides the root that supports me. I did not graft myself, that was done by the Caretaker.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

The Church is Israel, the Ark outside of which there is no salvation. At least, that’s what the Fathers have taught.

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 3:9[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Ron_Conte]

Anyone who consciously rejects Christ and his Church and dies unrepentant will not be saved…

False.

Pope John Paul II has taught that a person might outwardly reject the Church, and yet still be saved: Redemptoris Missio, n. 10 and All Salvation Comes through Christ, General Audience, 31 May 1995.

The situation is this. Anyone who commits an actual mortal sin AND dies unrepentant will not be saved. It is a dogma of the faith that dying unrepentant from actual mortal sin condemns one to Hell (Council of Lyons II, Council of Florence, Pope Benedict XII on the beatific vision of God).

But committing an objective mortal sin ‘consciously’ does not imply the full knowledge and full deliberation necessary for the sin to be actual mortal sin. Rejecting Christ or His Church with full knowledge of the grave immorality of the act and full deliberation would be an actual mortal sin. But many persons, confused by the false teachings of society and having been raised in a non-Christian religion, might reject Christ and His Church without full knowledge that this rejection is gravely immoral.

Therefore, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, other religions, agnostics and even atheists could possibly be saved without converting to Christianity and without an explicit repentance from the objective sin of rejecting Christianity, if it is not an actual mortal sin.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Islam is not the same. It is a false religion which teaches Jews and Christians are enemies and teaches they should be killed. This is why its so easy for the lunatic Islamic extremists to justify their murders because they can point to these teachings.

Your position on this topic is not in agreement with Church teaching. Islam is not a false religion.

"The Church regards with esteem also the Muslims. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

“Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Muslims, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.” (Vatican II, Nostra Aetate, n. 3)

Many Muslims are devout and moderate, not extremists, and they worship God with love, faith, and hope, in a state of grace, and in a way pleasing to God. They certainly can be saved without converting to Christianity.

 

[kempo1]

The bible tells us the jews are the first fruits. In a since Christianity came through them. Our lord was a jew. They are a special people. But we gentiles have every much the oportunity as they do to enter the kingdom. The jews no doubt have a special place with our lord and because of them we do too.

 

[aragonjohn1]

Objectively speaking, there is no possible way of salvation outside Christ and His Church. Those who will be saved will be saved by Christ through the Catholic Church. It is true that, non-Catholic Christians, by virtue of their baptism, are imperfectly united to the Church. But this does not mean that salvation is equally expedient for them. To the contrary, it is because they do not have the fullness of the sacramental life of the Church, which brings about the very salvation at issue. If you study what the Church has said on this, you will see the nearly 2,000-year tradition on this teaching. It was only after the Second Vatican Council where liberal theologians began to challenge the age-old teaching of no salvation outside the Church. They began to say that invincible ignorance was a reason that everyone, or at least most people, would be saved.

This is not true, and it does not comport with the Tradition of the Church. Invincible ignorance of the Church is the exception, not the rule. Pius IX, the pope that first introduced the teaching “invincible ignorance,” was writing in an age where there were not the forms of mass communication we have today. Certainly, in our era, most people should know about Jesus Christ and what He teaches regarding salvation. In addition, Pius IX was directing his teaching toward certain sects that were proclaiming the Church was no longer necessary for salvation.

In affirming that the Church was necessary for salvation, Pius IX carved out an exception for those who were ignorant of the gospel, “by no fault of their own.” Again, this is an exception, not the rule. Moreover, the exception has not risen to the level of a dogmatic teaching like EENS is. In today’s world of secularism and materialism, the Church needs all the more to implore people to repent of their false gods and come to Christ to be saved. This makes the false ecumenism and irenicism in the Church so harmful. We need to preach the gospel, not water it down. It is a matter of salvation, because, outside the Church, there is none

• scripturecatholic.com/justification_qa.html#tradition-7
• philvaz.com/apologetics/a126.htm#Ongoing

SHALOM
God Bless

 

[kempo1]

No doubt salvation is through Christ but i believe the jews in the end will have a chance to reject or accept the Lord. Some will be lost and some will not. Correct me if iam wrong.

 

[studychristian]

Islam takes the idea that it is selfish to think a man died for everyones sins. A Muslim man told me most Muslims think God saved Jesus a death on the Cross and took him to Heaven for safety and that Judas Iscariot was the one who was killed on the cross. I might be wrong, but I keep hearing this view by Muslims when they talk about Jesus.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Pope John Paul II: “Since Christ brings about salvation through his Mystical Body, which is the Church, the way of salvation is connected essentially with the Church. The axiom ‘extra ecclesiam nulla salus’ – ‘outside the Church there is no salvation’ – stated by St. Cyprian (Epist. 73, 21; PL 1123 AB), belongs to the Christian tradition. It was included in the Fourth Lateran Council (DS 802), in the Bull ‘Unam Sanctam’ of Boniface VIII (DS 870) and the Council of Florence (Decretum pro Jacobitis, DS 1351). The axiom means that for those who are not ignorant of the fact that the Church has been established as necessary by God through Jesus Christ, there is an obligation to enter the Church and remain in her in order to attain salvation (cf. LG 14). For those, however, who have not received the Gospel proclamation, as I wrote in the Encyclical ‘Redemptoris Missio,’ salvation is accessible in mysterious ways, inasmuch as divine grace is granted to them by virtue of Christ’s redeeming sacrifice, without external membership in the Church, but nonetheless always in relation to her (cf. Redemptoris Missio, n. 10). It is a mysterious relationship. It is mysterious for those who receive the grace, because they do not know the Church and sometimes even outwardly reject her. It is also mysterious in itself, because it is linked to the saving mystery of grace, which includes an essential reference to the Church the Savior founded. In order to take effect, saving grace requires acceptance, cooperation, a ‘yes’ to the divine gift. This acceptance is, at least implicitly, oriented to Christ and the Church. Thus it can also be said that ‘sine ecclesia nulla salus’ – ‘without the Church there is no salvation.’ Belonging to the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, however implicitly and indeed mysteriously, is an essential condition for salvation.” (All Salvation Comes through Christ, General Audience, 31 May 1995.)