God's love is an absurdity

[Ted_in_Charlott]

Fear is not being happy. And fear is something I’ve been dealing with lately because I don’t know what to believe.

Hey,

Lack of fear is security and pece. God gives you this option. Don’t fear God, fear sin that separates you from God. God loves you PePPaR, really more than I can describe. His way is perfect, trust Him.

Peace

 

[Swan]

Greetings to you,

You are looking at it all wrong. We should be wondering why a holy, sacred, perfect God should let us into heaven. He are but filthy rags, unclean lips, liars, lawbreakers. We are self-centered, immoral, uncaring and lawbreakers. We should be wondering why should the Creator of the universe, infinate, immortal and absolutely beyond compare or description should love us enough to send Jesus to die a miserable death on the cross to pay the penalty of our sins. Jesus’ blood was poured out as a sin offering. And this loving merciful God accepts it for all those that believe and follow Him.

So to answer your question, hell is what we deserve. God loves us enough to give us a way out. We are owed nothing. We owe everything to Jesus.

Here’s my problem with this argument: God made us what we are. To then say that we don’t deserve God’s love because we aren’t so well made, IMO, reflects on the maker. We didn’t ask to be created, born, etc. But we’re here, thrown into what is often a hellish existence full of questions, fears, anxieties and loss. To say that we should accept on blind faith that the “God” who did this to us loves us more than we can imagine while still accepting that we are so misshapen and disgusting that we’re lucky he looks at us at all is, to my mind, a lot of doublespeak. If we are in effect Barbie dolls and God is Mattel, who is in charge of quality control?

 

[LilyM]

Here’s my problem with this argument: God made us what we are. To then say that we don’t deserve God’s love because we aren’t so well made, IMO, reflects on the maker. We didn’t ask to be created, born, etc. But we’re here, thrown into what is often a hellish existence full of questions, fears, anxieties and loss. To say that we should accept on blind faith that the “God” who did this to us loves us more than we can imagine while still accepting that we are so misshapen and disgusting that we’re lucky he looks at us at all is, to my mind, a lot of doublespeak. If we are in effect Barbie dolls and God is Mattel, who is in charge of quality control?

No we didn’t ask to be created or born, but we gain lots of joy and lots of advantages out of existing. Enough that the vast majority of people prefer living to the alternative and choose not to attempt suicide, for example.

If I may draw an analogy here - Elizabeth II didn’t ask to be Queen of England, and I’m sure many aspects of her role totally suck. On the other hand, she always has the option of giving up her crown.

The fact that she hasn’t done so means she finds the pluses and benefits outweigh the disadvantages. In other words she’s accepted the gift which was thrust upon her, and is thus obligated to make the best use of it that she can.

God created us all good, God didn’t create us misshapen or ugly, we made ourselves that way by abusing the gifts He gives.

Just as the makers of cars create them to be things of beauty and great usefulness. It’s the misuse of those cars by people who drive badly, the negligence of those who design roads badly and suchlike that turn cars into objects that inflict pain and misery on people.

 

[buffalo]

God is perfectly loving, perfectly merciful and perfectly just. He can be no other way. Concentrate on learning about the justice part.

 

[Mirdath]

We should be wondering why a holy, sacred, perfect God should let us into heaven. He are but filthy rags, unclean lips, liars, lawbreakers. We are self-centered, immoral, uncaring and lawbreakers.

We are only as he made us, are we not?

 

[LilyM]

We are only as he made us, are we not?

No, we are also as we make ourselves - I don’t believe that humans have no agency or free will.

 

[Mirdath]

No, we are also as we make ourselves - I don’t believe that humans have no agency or free will.

Of course – and who might have given us that capacity, according to Catholic thought?

It’s one of the things I find most inconsistent about Catholic theology: we’re supposed to be held accountable, but the being who came up with morality isn’t in the slightest. Results in situations kind of like spanking a teddy bear because it didn’t climb back into the toybox, you know?

 

[LilyM]

Of course – and who might have given us that capacity, according to Catholic thought?

It’s one of the things I find most inconsistent about Catholic theology: we’re supposed to be held accountable, but the being who came up with morality isn’t in the slightest. Results in situations kind of like spanking a teddy bear because it didn’t climb back into the toybox, you know?

But why is it illogical to say that God made us knowing we’d have free will and misuse it? Don’t our parents also bring us into being knowing that we’ll have free will and misuse it?

In a very real sense our earthly parents give us that capacity too - you gonna start blaming them for punishing us when we go wrong as well?

Your analogy is wrong - ultimately we HAVE every chance and every capability of ‘getting back into the toybox’, as you call it. Christ’s redeeming act got us more than half way there. The sacraments, especially the sacraments of Penance and the Eucharist, are the tools and ladders to help us get the rest of the way back inside.

 

[BlaineTog]

But realistically, somebody who damns people to hell is not ALL loving if you ask me…

God does not damn anyone to hell. Everyone in hell is there because of their own free choice, a choice against which God railed and screamed but ultimately allowed because love allows the one loved to leave.

Interestingly enough, Stephen Colbert had something fitting to say about this…

No matter who it is, no body deserves to go there.

Not true. Everyone deserves to go to hell. Sin isn’t just a little thing; it is infinite in offense, which is why Jesus had to die to make up for it. Infinite offense requires infinite payment, and for God himself give up his life, infinite payment has been made. However, you still have to say “yes” to God. Heaven isn’t a theme park with a gate you can sneak over. It’s a state of being perfectly in love with God and allowing God’s love to flow perfectly over you. It is a logical incoherency to claim that one can be in Heaven without wanting it.

Even if a murderer killed my entire family I would never want him to be in a pit of fire for eternity.

Nor should you. Nevertheless, it is what he (and you, and I, and everyone I know) deserves.

Moreover, it basically even says if you’re a good and loving person you will still go to hell if you don’t follow the word of Christ.

Where does it say that?

Well there doesen’t have to be a hell in the first place.

Yes there does. God can do all things, but he can’t do things which aren’t things, like logical inconsistencies. God cannot, for example, cause a glass to be both full of water and empty of water at the same time (all word tricks aside); more properly, if God were asked “Can you cause a glass to be both full and empty?” he would reply “The question does not make sense.” Logic, like truth, justice, and love, goes all the way to the top.

You either accept God’s love, or you reject it; there is no middle ground. If you accept God’s love, he’ll wash you up in Purgatory and eventually you will be ready for Heaven. If you don’t accept God’s love, then there’s nothing God can do to force you to accept it freely. After all, if he’s forcing you, you aren’t doing it freely, and if you aren’t accepting God’s love freely, then you aren’t accepting it at all.

(Continued in next post)

 

[BlaineTog]

(Continued from previous post)

Well putting it they way you’re putting it is basically stating that everyone is predestined to hell.

No, s/he’s saying that everyone, deserves Hell, no more, no less. Had Jesus not died on the cross, then we would be predestined to Hell, but God paved a new road to him that we cannot break no matter how often we stray away.

Let’s say you’re a homeless bum on the street. You had a good upbringing, a good education, and got a good job, but you slept with your boss’s wife, spent all your money on drugs, and were generally a real mean fellow, never sparing a moment’s thought for others. In fact, let’s say you embezzled money from the company and tried to pin it on someone else in your department, but were caught. Needless to say, you were fired. A few years pass. Then, as you’re sitting on the side of the road holding a sign with something about how you’re a disabled veteran to help garner sympathy, a former co-worker (who knows you’re lying), in fact, the co-worker you tried to pin the embezzlement on, drives by, drives back, parks, and invites you into his car. He smiles, says he’s glad to see you, and offers to take you home for a nice home-cooked meal. The meal is delicious; though he’s never gotten very far in the company (much less far that you ever got), he cooks you a 10 oz steak, grade-A meat with excellent seasoning, along with everything else you could want. He lets you sleep in his bed (he takes the couch) and offers to see what he can do about getting you your job back, or at least a job.

Then, in the middle of the night, you steal $100 you find under his mattress, urinate on the carpet, and run.

You deserve something pretty terrible for that, don’t you? And he didn’t even really give you very much, either.

Now, think about what God does for you: he creates you, something you never could do for yourself, he sets you up in a world that, while full of terrible things, is also full of wonderful things, then he lets himself be killed for you, and then he says that you can have perfect eternal happiness to a degree only vaguely hinted at here on earth if only you’ll let him give it to you, if only you won’t refuse it in pride. That’s one heck of a deal. Anything, no matter how small, done that spits in the face of someone who offers all that is a cruelty so repulsively evil that Hell is just about the lightest punishment imaginable. Because you are God’s child, and what you do matters. It can matter for good, or it can matter for ill.

Eternal punishment and hell completely contradicts LOVE.

Yes they do. This is why God spends your whole life desperately trying to keep you from it.

And stating that ‘one must choose to go to hell’ also contradicts itself. We all sin, and it’s fair to say we all commit mortal sins as well. A mortal sin is one that can destroy and severely hurt ones relationship with God – it does not mean that one WANTS to break up his relationship with God; it is merely a rule as such in regards to what a mortal sin is.

A mortal sin says that you prefer yourself to God. It isn’t so much saying “God, I don’t want you,” as “God, I want myself so much more than I want you,” and thus amounts to effectively the same thing, because you cannot take a gift from God if you’re trying to take a gift from yourself (which is the real contradiction).

The biggest thing one must commit to is to believe in ‘Christ’. This is a fundamental belief that is crucial to ones faith. However, not everyone is given the opportunity to follow the way of Christ and abide by his teachings; and also, many have never even HEARD of Christ. So are these people now predestined to hell?

Not at all. If they live implicitly Christian lives, then they have had a “baptism by desire,” meaning they effectively believe in Christ and would have converted had it reasonably been an option for them.

(Concluded in next post)

 

[BlaineTog]

(Concluding from previous post)

And if they aren’t, that ultimately puts one who doesn’t know God in a better position then one who DOES know God. For they are not able to commit mortal sins and therefore will not die in a state of mortal sin.

No, not at all. The law is written on the heart of every man, woman, and child on Earth. We all have a basic awareness of morality.

But life isn’t just about passing a series of tests, of successfully not sinning as much as possible. It’s about allow God to love you and loving him back. It’s about doing good things, not just not doing bad ones. And the Catholic is better equipped to do that. Mortal sins aren’t mortal just because God decided to make up a series of arbitrary restrictions, but because the very essences of the actions themselves hurt the human soul, and badly.

Let’s say you pass a button on the side of the street every morning on your way to work. The button isn’t labeled or anything, it’s just a little red button, sitting there on the top of a post. You push it. Nothing seems to happen. You push it a few more times. Still nothing. You shrug and pass along your merry way. Unbeknownst to you, every time that button is pressed, ten children on the other side of the globe are brutally tortured to death. You are not at fault for pressing that button, but pressing that button causes harm. Wouldn’t you like to know which buttons not to press, even though you the blood slipped by the buttons isn’t on your hands?

Thus with sin. The actions that are sinful hurt you somehow, make you less capable of accepting God’s love, whether you know it or not. Bottles of pills have labels telling you how much is safe to take. This implicitly tells you how much is not safe to take, and from this you can infer how much you have to eat before they kill you. However, the pill manufacturers want to prevent accidental death; that someone could misuse the knowledge of what a lethal dose is to commit suicide is, frankly, beside the point, regrettable though it may be.

Also, yes it is OUR choice how we live. But this is still not a valid argument to God condemning people to hell. If a mother loves her child, and the child chooses to separate himself from her due to his hateful ways, and begins doing immoral and terrible things such as drugs, murder and rape – the mother will have to let go because it does come up to a point where she can’t do anything anymore. HOWEVER, if her child chooses to return back to MORAL ways and RETURN to his LOVING family – THAN THE MOTHER WILL ACCEPT HER CHILD WITH OPEN ARMS!

Yes! God does just this! This is exactly what God does!

There is no better love then this. This is the true essence of love. And HEY! We see this on Earth! If we sin, no matter how we sin, God will forgive us! THEN THERE IS NO REASON ONE CANNOT BE FORGIVEN AFTER DEATH – OTHERWISE THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF FAITH CONTRADICTS ITSELF AND THERE IS NO LOVE PRESENT.

The soul before death and the soul after death are two very different things. Before death, the soul exists in time, where things change and grow and can alter their opinions. After death, the soul is in eternal time, where everything exists in a constant state of action. As such, the phrase “a soul in hell that changes its mind” is a contradiction in terms. To be in hell in the sense we mean here is to be outside of change.

That said, it is entirely possible that God, in his mercy, gives everyone a final chance at the moment of death to choose him with as clear a head as we’ve ever had. It is also possible that God only takes someone when they have lived their life to the point of no return.

No matter what one does; if God is love, then a soul can reunite with their creator if they BELIEVE AND WANT TO COMMIT TO GOD.

And that is exactly how things work.

Mirdath:

Of course – and who might have given us that capacity, according to Catholic thought?

God did, because free will is a very very good thing indeed! That we misuse is is regrettable, but it doesn’t detract from the thing being misused.

 

[PePPaR]

Thankyou for a very thoughtful reply Blainetog; and all the other replies for that matter.

I might comment on the Stephen Colbert video first. Don’t really know why you showed me that but all I can say is that the author got completely owned and ridiculed lol.

Anyway…Through the replies I have received I have learnt quite a lot. And I do feel somewhat better now. But only in one respect. I think I’m starting to see that one can actually completely reject God’s love and relationship willingly. And moreover, God loves us forever. However, I still do not see the merit of hell. Fine, if someone rejects God why must they end up in hell? Do they really deserve punishment? They rejected God’s love, and as you all say that, “they send themselves to hell”. However, God can prevent one from being sent to hell. If he loves us so much and if we still reject Him, then His FINAL act of COMPASSION and MERCY and LOVE can be to wipe one from existence.

Hell is proclaimed to be made for the devil and NOT for HUMANS. Therefore, humans should not go there and nor do they have any right to go there.

 

[LilyM]

Thankyou for a very thoughtful reply Blainetog; and all the other replies for that matter.

I might comment on the Stephen Colbert video first. Don’t really know why you showed me that but all I can say is that the author got completely owned and ridiculed lol.

Anyway…Through the replies I have received I have learnt quite a lot. And I do feel somewhat better now. But only in one respect. I think I’m starting to see that one can actually completely reject God’s love and relationship willingly. And moreover, God loves us forever. However, I still do not see the merit of hell. Fine, if someone rejects God why must they end up in hell? Do they really deserve punishment? They rejected God’s love, and as you all say that, “they send themselves to hell”. However, God can prevent one from being sent to hell. If he loves us so much and if we still reject Him, then His FINAL act of COMPASSION and MERCY and LOVE can be to wipe one from existence.

Hell is proclaimed to be made for the devil and NOT for HUMANS. Therefore, humans should not go there and nor do they have any right to go there.

Yes but what good is it to God to prevent people from being sent to Hell ( presumably by keeping them in Heaven) who actually don’t want to be with Him and don’t want heaven and actually WANT to get away from Him?

What good would it be to me to take a spouse who doesn’t want to live with me or remain married to me and force them to stay in my company and in my house? What good would it be to my spouse even to force them to do so?

Would putting them in my presence in such circumstances somehow magically make them love me and want to be with me and make them happy? Of course not. It would make both of us every bit as miserable as letting them go.

Why do you think non-existence is more merciful? Most people love life in even the direst of circumstances, and cling to it for themselves and on behalf of others. Comparatively few people actually seriously prefer suicide or euthanasia, for example, in spite of increases in the rates of both.

finally, what makes you say Hell isn’t for humans? True it is for devils, and as Jesus makes clear, it is also for those who reject Him. Not a single person who goes to Hell will ever, having faced God’s perfectly just and perfectly merciful analysis of their lives (far more perfect both in its justice and mercy than we can ever imagine) say to themselves anything other than that they deserve Hell. What reason do you have to think otherwise?

 

[fellowChristian]

CHAPTER ONE
I BELIEVE IN GOD THE FATHER

God is love

218 **
In the course of its history, Israel was able to discover that God had only one reason to reveal himself to them, a single motive for choosing them from among all peoples as his special possession: his sheer gratuitous love.38 And thanks to the prophets Israel understood that it was again **out of love that God never stopped saving them and pardoning their unfaithfulness and sins.39

**219 **
God’s love for Israel is compared to a father’s love for his son. His love for his people is stronger than a mother’s for her children. God loves his people more than a bridegroom his beloved; his love will be victorious over even the worst infidelities and will extend to his most precious gift: “**God so loved the world that he gave his only Son.”**40

**220 **
God’s love is “everlasting”:41 "For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you."42 Through Jeremiah, God declares to his people, "I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."43

**
221**
But St. John goes even further when he affirms that “God is love”:44 God’s very being is love. By sending his only Son and the Spirit of Love in the fullness of time, God has revealed his innermost secret:45 God himself is an eternal exchange of love, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and he has destined us to share in that exchange.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt1.htm

ARTICLE 12
"I BELIEVE IN LIFE EVERLASTING"

IV. Hell

**1033 **
We cannot be united with God unless we **freely choose **to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 **Our Lord warns us **that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

**1034 **
Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna,” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616

1035 **
The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God,** in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036
The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619

**1037 **
God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, **a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. **In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

Catechism of the Catholic Church
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art12.htm

 

[fellowChristian]

So just from the Catechism I understand that God loves me but He wants to see if I love Him.

Whenever I sin I turn my back on Him.
With my words or actions I am saying “I don’t love you”.
I turn my back on God.

If I die then Hell is not being with Him.

But if before I die I confess my sins I am showing God that I am sorry for my words or actions.I am showing Him that I love Him.

I am turning back to Him.
Reconciliation.

If I die then by God’s forgiveness I won’t be separated from Him.
That is Heaven.

I think that sounds fair:shrug:

 

[Mystic_of_God]

Honestly, the more I think about it, the angrier I get. I somehow feel called to deepen my understanding of my faith. But some things annoy the blits out of me.

Constantly, God is proclaimed as omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent – and ALL LOVING. God is continually pronounced as all loving and merciful. It’s one of the fundamental core beliefs in Catholicism. I WANT to believe this. But realistically, somebody who damns people to hell is not ALL loving if you ask me…

If a mother has a child. She will love that child forever despite what that child does. Even if her child rapes, murders, steals, bombs cities and whatnot; the mother will continue to LOVE that child forever. Yes, she may be distraught, forever saddened, and angry with her child’s actions – but her love will never cease, and she will always welcome her child into her love. Furthermore, she would not want ANYTHING BAD to happen to her child regardless of the things he has done. WHY? BECAUSE SHE LOVES HIM FOREVER AND HER LOVE WILL NEVER CEASE. This is what love is!

And when I hear such things as, “Thou shalt be condemned in hell and burn forever”, or “Thou shall be engulfed in eternal flames for eternity” – I seriously get angry.

WHO IS MORE LOVING HERE?

The mother who loves her child forever and forgives her child forever and will always welcome her child?

Or

A God who loves ALL; but if they trespass against him he will condemn thee to hell for ETERNITY?

There is no mercy in condemning someone to hell. Even though God forgives sins through the Ministry of the Church, I cannot see how our God can condemn people to hell. No matter who it is, no body deserves to go there. Even if a murderer killed my entire family I would never want him to be in a pit of fire for eternity. It just isn’t right. Plus, looking at the world now, the utmost majority of the world does not follow the word of God, they do not go to Church, they do not confess their sins, and they continually sin throughout their lives. - These people, according to the Bible will go to hell. Moreover, it basically even says if you’re a good and loving person you will still go to hell if you don’t follow the word of Christ. Right…

Might I add that people will be argueing that, “God does not send people to hell; they send themselves.” Well there doesen’t have to be a hell in the first place. If God is God, he is the ALL POWERFUL God and therefore hell does not need to exist. Moreover, he should bring his children back to him as intended - God being the alpha and omega; or beginning and end.

Anyone who loves another person WOULD never even consider damming someone into hell for eternity. It’s just not right. And this is what seriously pisses me of about my faith and I’m trying to find a deeper meaning in all this, but I can’t.

True, but you got it wrong. God is too merciful to damn anyone to heaven. The only place worse for the damned than hell is heaven. Love is merciful, but it is also a consuming fire.

 

[bilop]

Thankyou for a very thoughtful reply Blainetog; and all the other replies for that matter.

I might comment on the Stephen Colbert video first. Don’t really know why you showed me that but all I can say is that the author got completely owned and ridiculed lol.

Anyway…Through the replies I have received I have learnt quite a lot. And I do feel somewhat better now. But only in one respect. I think I’m starting to see that one can actually completely reject God’s love and relationship willingly. And moreover, God loves us forever. However, I still do not see the merit of hell. Fine, if someone rejects God why must they end up in hell? Do they really deserve punishment? They rejected God’s love, and as you all say that, “they send themselves to hell”. However, God can prevent one from being sent to hell. If he loves us so much and if we still reject Him, then His FINAL act of COMPASSION and MERCY and LOVE can be to wipe one from existence.

Hell is proclaimed to be made for the devil and NOT for HUMANS. Therefore, humans should not go there and nor do they have any right to go there.

PePPaR,

Let’s go back to your mother/child analogy.

If a mother has a child who rejects her, hates her, commits all sorts of misdeeds and crimes, she may still love him, but she does not have him live in her house. She also does not object if he faces the punishments for his misdeeds. If he rapes and murders, she does not oppose his imprisonment. Does not try to break him out of jail. That is not love.

Likewise, if you hate and reject God, He does not have you with Him in Heaven. He lets you face your just punishment.

God has made the soul eternal, therefore He will not destroy anyone.

God Bless

 

[BlaineTog]

Thankyou for a very thoughtful reply Blainetog; and all the other replies for that matter.

I might comment on the Stephen Colbert video first. Don’t really know why you showed me that but all I can say is that the author got completely owned and ridiculed lol.

Well, that’s part of it: the video is just so much fun to watch. But he also explains Hell pretty succinctly and well.

Anyway…Through the replies I have received I have learnt quite a lot. And I do feel somewhat better now. But only in one respect. I think I’m starting to see that one can actually completely reject God’s love and relationship willingly. And moreover, God loves us forever. However, I still do not see the merit of hell. Fine, if someone rejects God why must they end up in hell? Do they really deserve punishment? They rejected God’s love, and as you all say that, “they send themselves to hell”. However, God can prevent one from being sent to hell. If he loves us so much and if we still reject Him, then His FINAL act of COMPASSION and MERCY and LOVE can be to wipe one from existence.

You know, I’ve been thinking about that, and I think it’s a false third option. I mean, think about it: you either accept God’s love and go to heaven, or you reject God’s love and go to hell, or you reject God’s love and become nonexistent. Because we are his children, God has made us to be eternal. The only way for us to truly cease to exist would be for us to allow God to work on us enough to delete us. But, we have rejected God. Had we accepted Him, we would be in purgatory on our way to Heaven.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

I went through a time myself when I rejected the notion of hell and humans going there. My beliefs today as a non-Catholic would be heretical according to Catholic belief, so I won’t go into those. But, I wanted to share the personal issue outside of the theological implications.

I let my anger at God for the issue of Hell get out of control. I ended up leaving Christianity precisely over this issue. I was wrong. The bottom line is YOUR relationship to the Father. You go to church, you study the Scriptures, you pray, you obey God’s commandments. When you sin, you reconcile to Him. Beyond that, there’s not much else for you to consider.

Regardless of whether it’s right or wrong morally and regardless of whether or not God is somehow unjust (He’s not) or whether or not Hell exists and who it is for, the issue remains as to YOUR salvation and your relationship with the Father. If you follow the list above, you needn’t worry about the theology of Hell and the implications. God will take care of the rest.

Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Peace…

MW

 

[fellowChristian]

The Baltimore Catechism
Lesson 5: ON OUR FIRST PARENTS AND THEIR FALL

** Q**. Who were the first man and woman?
A. The first man and woman were Adam and Eve.

Q. Were Adam and Eve innocent and holy when they came from the hand of God?
A. Adam and Eve were innocent and holy when they came from the hand of God.

** Q.** Did God give any command to Adam and Eve?
A. To try their obedience God commanded Adam and Eve not to eat of a certain fruit which grew in the garden of Paradise.

Q. Which were the chief blessings intended for Adam and Eve, had they remained faithful to God?
A. The chief blessings intended for Adam and Eve, had they remained faithful to God, were a constant state of happiness in this life and everlasting glory in the next.

Q. Did Adam and Eve remain faithful to God?
A. Adam and Eve did not remain faithful to God, but broke His commandment by eating the forbidden fruit.

Q. What befell Adam and Eve on account of their sin?
A. Adam and Eve on account of their sin lost innocence and holiness, and were doomed to sickness and death.

Q. What evil befell us on account of the disobedience of our first parents?
A. On account of the disobedience of our first parents we all share in their sin and punishment, as we should have shared in their happiness if they had remained faithful.

Q. What other effects followed from the sin of our first parents?
A. Our nature was corrupted by the sin of our first parents, which darkened our understanding, weakened our will, and left us a strong inclination to evil.

Q. What is the sin called which we inherit from our first parents?
A. The sin which we inherit from our first parents is called Original Sin.

For the whole page
catholicinformationcenteroninternet.org/Catechism/Introduction/bk4ls5.html#RTFToC3

**ARTICLE 1
“I BELIEVE IN GOD THE FATHER ALMIGHTY, CREATOR
OF HEAVEN AND EARTH”

Paragraph 7. The Fall**

The Catechism of the Catholic Church
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt1art1p7.htm