God's Love, mercy, forgiveness

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Jesus Christ gave his life as a human sacrifice for the sins of the human race. Can we say that since Jesus paid the debt of sin, as so often expressed, that God will then welcome ALL humans regardless of their sins in life?

God is expressed as love, merciful and will forgive each person, but, this is on condition that the person asks to be forgiven.

God would always love a person, even if they do not worship God in any way, so wouldn’t God give his mercy and forgiveness too?

What is the difference between God’s love and God’s forgiveness?
 
Jesus Christ gave his life as a human sacrifice for the sins of the human race. Can we say that since Jesus paid the debt of sin, as so often expressed, that God will then welcome ALL humans regardless of their sins in life?
Were there certain defects both in the Body and the Soul of Christ?

Yes; and such were necessary for the end of the Incarnation, which was to make satisfaction for our sins to come on earth as one of us to be for us an example by the practice of the highest virtues of patience and immolation (XIV.,XV.). (Cat. on the Summa Fr. Thomas Pegues, O. P,)

Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one can come to the Father but by me.” We do not try to get into heaven. We die to natural operations of our body and live for the Holy Spirit, the seven-fold gift to emulate the imitation of Christ. We are given the divine instruction not to expect heaven by our own body, but rather to hope on the fruit of the seeds of divine instruction. “We are saved by hope” (Rom 8:24) “Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Mt 7:21) Our will has to be divinized. This is the proper context to see satisfaction for sin.
God is expressed as love, merciful and will forgive each person, but, this is on condition that the person asks to be forgiven.
Again, we take on Christ, and die to self. “I die daily” (1 Cor 15:31) “And put on the new man, who according to God is created in justice and holiness of truth.” (Eph 4:24) “And putting on the new, him who is renewed unto knowledge, according to the image of him that created him.” (Col 3:10) Primarily, this knowledge leads to the value of heaven over pursuit that ends in this world, this value is by our risk of freedom to choose the truthful instruction. For we diligently choose not to be deceived. As soul and body we are responsible for its mortal condition, and bring it into divinization.
God would always love a person, even if they do not worship God in any way, so wouldn’t God give his mercy and forgiveness too?
In his love God in subtle ways reveals consequence of the sin. But yet, often times the mortal condition traps the soul, “He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart, that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.” (Jn 12:40) This is one aspect, but it doesn’t answer the question. I think a good way to look at it, is the testimony of Saint Anthony the Great: "When the same Abba Anthony thought about the depth of the judgments of God, he asked, “Lord, how is it that some die when they are young, while others drag on to extreme old age? Why are there those who are poor, and those who are rich? Why do wicked men prosper, and why are the just in need?” He heard a voice answering him, “Anthony, keep your attention on yourself. These things are according to the judgment of God, and it is not to your advantage to know anything about them.”
What is the difference between God’s love and God’s forgiveness?
Love is a reciprocal partnership to collaborate to a certain end in view in which strives to avoid the less noble things. Forgiveness is the means to get through what is less noble and continue on the partnership granted that the same goal is sought.
 
Jesus Christ gave his life as a human sacrifice for the sins of the human race. Can we say that since Jesus paid the debt of sin, as so often expressed, that God will then welcome ALL humans regardless of their sins in life?

God is expressed as love, merciful and will forgive each person, but, this is on condition that the person asks to be forgiven.

God would always love a person, even if they do not worship God in any way, so wouldn’t God give his mercy and forgiveness too?

What is the difference between God’s love and God’s forgiveness?
God’s love is identical to God’s forgiveness so there can never be a change in God’s attitude towards his creation. That being the case we are all eternally forgiven; its not something we have to earn. So the question is, why do some of us go to hell? The only possibility of this happening is if we in some way shape or form reject God’s forgiveness or in other-words reject God’s love. This is how justice is played out.
 
So the question is, why do some of us go to hell? The only possibility of this happening is if we in some way shape or form reject God’s forgiveness or in other-words reject God’s love.
'it is impossible for a sin to be pardoned anyone without penance as a virtue." (S.Thomas Aquinas, STh III, q. 86, a. 2)
 
Jesus Christ gave his life as a human sacrifice for the sins of the human race. Can we say that since Jesus paid the debt of sin, as so often expressed, that God will then welcome ALL humans regardless of their sins in life?
God welcomes ALL. But not ALL choose to want him or even acknowledge Him. God respects your free choice and does not coerce you to love him in return.
God is expressed as love, merciful and will forgive each person, but, this is on condition that the person asks to be forgiven.
And repent. Asking for forgiveness AND NOT repenting is not effective. Because asking for forgiveness while intending to repeat the same act renders the request for forgiveness insincere.
God would always love a person, even if they do not worship God in any way, so wouldn’t God give his mercy and forgiveness too?
You forget justice. A judge may sentence you (Justice) and show mercy by reducing your sentence. Mercy is not letting you off scott free. Yep God respect your choices. He may not like it but he will permit you to do what you choose. Eternity will resonate with your “always”.
What is the difference between God’s love and God’s forgiveness?
No difference because they are not the same thing.
 
Jesus Christ gave his life as a human sacrifice for the sins of the human race. Can we say that since Jesus paid the debt of sin, as so often expressed, that God will then welcome ALL humans regardless of their sins in life?

God is expressed as love, merciful and will forgive each person, but, this is on condition that the person asks to be forgiven.

God would always love a person, even if they do not worship God in any way, so wouldn’t God give his mercy and forgiveness too?

What is the difference between God’s love and God’s forgiveness?
Justice, truth, all that is right-demands that we love as well-otherwise, simply speaking, evil will continue to survive and rear its ugly head. This means that God is preparing and perfecting a people-and that our wills are necessarily involved in the process.
 
Thanks for the replies.

My thought turns to the idea that God’s Love, mercy and forgiveness is unconditional, or it is conditional. Apparently it can’t be thought of as either/or.
When I try to understand God coming as a man in order to pay the debt of sin that man caused, but that no man could possibly pay for, I don’t understand why there is any condition on mans part to accept it.
God did it because he loves his creation and wanted his human beings to be with him after their death, wouldn’t that include EVERYONE.
There doesn’t seem to be any conditions when Jesus took his cross and died.

The Divine God’s thinking is very different from ours, we as humans seem sometimes to need to see people punished for sins/crimes against each other, if we truly forgave why would we still seek punishment?

I can’t work out what might be Divine Justice and what is just human ways of justice.
 
Thanks for the replies.

My thought turns to the idea that God’s Love, mercy and forgiveness is unconditional, or it is conditional. Apparently it can’t be thought of as either/or.
When I try to understand God coming as a man in order to pay the debt of sin that man caused, but that no man could possibly pay for, I don’t understand why there is any condition on mans part to accept it.
God did it because he loves his creation and wanted his human beings to be with him after their death, wouldn’t that include EVERYONE.
There doesn’t seem to be any conditions when Jesus took his cross and died.

The Divine God’s thinking is very different from ours, we as humans seem sometimes to need to see people punished for sins/crimes against each other, if we truly forgave why would we still seek punishment?

I can’t work out what might be Divine Justice and what is just human ways of justice.
But God never forces His love upon us. The cross proves God’s unconditional love but that doesn’t mean we aren’t free to reject it.
 
But God never forces His love upon us. The cross proves God’s unconditional love but that doesn’t mean we aren’t free to reject it.
I understand that we are free to reject God, I know we have freewill.

But you can’t reject being born, and that would seem to mean that God wanted everyone who is born to have been born, so then, would God reject us, like we can reject God?
 
I understand that we are free to reject God, I know we have freewill.

But you can’t reject being born, and that would seem to mean that God wanted everyone who is born to have been born, so then, would God reject us, like we can reject God?
We didn’t ask to be born, so we didn’t choose to be a part of all that play and bet, making a choice of whether to accept or reject god was imposed on us and we can’t quit that game. it’s either to accept or reject, go to heaven or go to hell, where’s the free will in that?
 
We didn’t ask to be born, so we didn’t choose to be a part of all that play and bet, making a choice of whether to accept or reject god was imposed on us and we can’t quit that game. it’s either to accept or reject, go to heaven or go to hell, where’s the free will in that?
You are mistaken what freewill is. Only beings in existence can discuss freewill. If you weren’t born, there is nothing to talk about. If you were not born, there is nothing to choose. Whether you are born or not, is the choice of your parents, their freewill. Not yours. But here you are. Choose.

You can choose not to have any kids. The world will be fully depopulated in 1 generation. Is that what you want? Just so that they are not burdened by freewill?
 
What is the difference between God’s love and God’s forgiveness?
Maybe reflect on the greatest commandments, we can do nothing greater than love God and love our neighbour as we love ourselves. We should not let anything stand in the way of loving our neighbour, so we have to keep forgiving in order to keep loving.

How did Jesus love his neighbours who condemned him to death and nailed him to the cross? We know he prayed forgive them Father.
 
Explain what you mean by “who is born to have been born”? Do you mean who is? denoting identity as synonymous to divine rejection. This seems to be the heresy of Calvin.
 
Saint Bonaventure wrote, (the people of God) “…must love him, according to what you say of yourself in Proverbs 8:17: “I love those who love me.” - Nor does he only love us with mouth and tongue, but also in action and in truth.” (Com on Lk, 7:5) His love is conditional in the sense in which he loves in the truth. On the other hand, we have to be lead to ask -who-, a person, in regard to the truth. “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim 2:4) This drama toward the who of the first cause exhibits many obstacles. “narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!” (Mt 7:14) This verse is elucidated in the Catechism, “The way of Christ “leads to life”; a contrary way “leads to destruction.” The Gospel parable of the two ways remains ever present in the catechesis of the Church; it shows the importance of moral decisions for our salvation: ‘There are two ways, the one of life, the other of death; but between the two, there is a great difference.’” (Catechism, 1696)

We must allow the divinization of the will by frequent moral decisions. In short, this involves the assiduous habits of prayer, fasting, and almsgiving. This is the condition we allow to place ourselves. It is the only condition to be concerned. If a soul is not in this condition let it find health in the assiduous reading of scriptures with begging. With joy and ease, the invitation will be given and the divine drama is manifested once again. The rosary is prayed, true devotion to Our Lady is understood, and the Blessed Sacrament is adored, in the home but regularly in Church.

Saying that God’s love is unconditional is an understatement. The truth is what ought to be sought, the condition of truth in the dramatic pursuit is the divinization of the will of the mortal.
 
So God would always love us, but may not forgive us…

I don’t know how that works?

God teaches us forgiveness, even forgiveness of those who do not ask for forgiveness, seems our forgiveness should be unconditional where possible, yet we are not divine beings…:confused:
 
I don’t know what the heresy of calvin is.

I mean everyone who is alive, was willed by God to be born.
 
Do you agree that forgiveness is an act of mercy, and that God’s mercy is unlimited?
 
Yes, but freedom of the will always carries a potential of risk.

Consider three rules here in which Pope St. John Paul II taught, "The first of these is that reason must realize that human knowledge is a journey which allows no rest; the second stems from the awareness that such a path is not for the proud who think that everything is the fruit of personal conquest; a third rule is grounded in the “fear of God” whose transcendent sovereignty and provident love in the governance of the world reason must recognize.

In abandoning these rules, the human being runs the risk of failure and ends up in the condition of “the fool”. For the Bible, in this foolishness there lies a threat to life. The fool thinks that he knows many things, but really he is incapable of fixing his gaze on the things that truly matter." (Fides et ratio, 18)

The journey that the cited Pope speaks here is one of drama, that is drama between the soul and heaven. The acts in the play may be numerous or very short. But somewhere in the plot, the soul realizes it has to go to confession in assent to the divine framework to “consecrate the Christian sinner’s personal and ecclesial steps of conversion, penance, and satisfaction.” (CCC 1423) In truth, "the first step in returning to the Father " (ibid.) is the sacrament of confession. If the priest is full of wisdom, he will most surely answer the sinner’s deep heart question of who? and if time permits how? who make me hot, how do I become hot. For Jesus says, "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. (Rev 3:15-16)
 
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