God's love, wrath, and other "emotions"

[spockrates]

You raise some very valid points. It seems unloving to me. One has to remember that the proposition is that god sets up all the rules. Therefore it is by his choice that anyone who does not get in to heaven is punished for eternity. There are many things wrong with this situation.

For example it would be far more reasonable to give good people who have no interest in entering heaven the choice to reject heaven but not be sent to hell. Also an infinite punishment for no, or a finite crime, is utterly immoral. It seems more like a system set up for blackmail than anything else… Love me OR ELSE!

Yes, there is something wrong, but not with God. I used to be an Evangelical. One idea that I could not understand was the idea that after death there is only Heaven or Hell and nothing else. Try as I might, I could not comprehend how it could be just. Catholics, on the other hand, have a third option: Purgatory–a place where one can pay her dues to eternal society and become rehabilitated before being released to heaven. That idea makes it easier to see how God is both just and loving.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Just trying to understand whether every act of God is an act of love.

God is truly and absolutely simple. So God is not partly merciful and partly just and parly loving. God is Love and Mercy and Justice and Goodness (etc.). And in God, Love is Mercy is Justice is Goodness is His very Nature. Also, God is not divided into being and doing. In God, being and doing are the same. God is His acts. God is One Divine Eternal Act. Even the procession of the Son from the Father, and of the Spirit from the Father and the Son, are of the One Act.

So all the acts of God are One Act, and that One Act is His Nature.
And since God is Love, all His acts are Love.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Oops, my bad. I meant to say that emotions such as wrath, etc, excepting love, probably have no existence within the Godhead.

The love that is God is not emotion. The love between the Three Persons is not emotion. The love of God for created persons is not an emotion.

Also, it is not a ‘probability’ that the Divine Nature has no emotions, it is the teaching of the Church. Emotion implies change, and God is unchanging.

 

[spockrates]

Oops, my bad. I meant to say that emotions such as wrath, etc, excepting love, probably have no existence within the Godhead.

I see. Would you say, then, that God has two states of emotion–love and non-love? I mean, sometimes He experiences love, and other times he experiences no emotion at all?

 

[DCNBILL]

Does God, in Himself (in the Trinity) love?

God in Himself as Trinity is Love. The Catholic concept of love is not one of emotion but of the outpouring of ones self for the sake of the other. God the Father pours Humself out to the Son, the Son pours Himself back to the Father, this outpouring communication between the Father and the Son generates the Holy Spirit. Thus God is in fact Love itself.

 

[Mr_Skeptic]

If a person goes to hell, it is because he/she was given a perfectly fair opportunity to accept Christ, and chose not to. Throwing a rope to somebody desperately hanging onto a cliff is love; whether or not the person chooses to grab it is his choice.

If a person was on the side of a cliff, hanging on for dear life, they would have direct and full knowledge of their situation. It wouldn’t be blind faith. The person with the rope wouldn’t have to say, “You may not believe it, but, you’re hanging off a cliff about to fall to your death. Please have faith in what I tell you, and grab the rope.”

 

[spockrates]

God in Himself as Trinity is Love. The Catholic concept of love is not one of emotion but of the outpouring of ones self for the sake of the other. God the Father pours Humself out to the Son, the Son pours Himself back to the Father, this outpouring communication between the Father and the Son generates the Holy Spirit. Thus God is in fact Love itself.

Thank you, DC. What does it mean when John the Apostle writes that “God is love”? Doesn’t it mean that He (or They) are perfectly and completely loving?

 

[spockrates]

If a person was on the side of a cliff, hanging on for dear life, they would have direct and full knowledge of their situation. It wouldn’t be blind faith. The person with the rope wouldn’t have to say, “You may not believe it, but, you’re hanging off a cliff about to fall to your death. Please have faith in what I tell you, and grab the rope.”

I agree, Mr S!

 

[DCNBILL]

Thank you, DC. What does it mean when John the Apostle writes that “God is love”? Doesn’t it mean that He (or They) are perfectly and completely loving?

I would have to agree with this 100%! God being in fact love must be perfectly loving and demonstrates this by pouring Himself out into creation. Great point!

 

[spockrates]

I would have to agree with this 100%! God being in fact love must be perfectly loving and demonstrates this by pouring Himself out into creation. Great point!

And are we not to be loving, as God is loving? Are we not to imitate God in this respect?

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

(Ephesians 5:1-2)

 

[DCNBILL]

And are we not to be loving, as God is loving? Are we not to imitate God in this respect?

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

(Ephesians 5:1-2)

Again I must agree with you completely. Theologically , I would put it in this fashion. God creates as God is, thus God created us with the free will that allows for love (the giving of ones self to the other). Thus we participate most fully in His creation when we choose to return love to God and when we love one another.

 

[Fide_Roma]

Every act of God is an act of Love, because GOD is love. We define Love by GOD himself, not by our conception of love.

 

[spockrates]

Again I must agree with you completely. Theologically , I would put it in this fashion. God creates as God is, thus God created us with the free will that allows for love (the giving of ones self to the other). Thus we participate most fully in His creation when we choose to return love to God and when we love one another.

Yes, I agree! “God creates us as God is” or perhaps, “God is creating us to be more like He is” must be true if we are to have any hope of imitating Him!



And when you and I love, are we to do so with no emotion at all, or should there be compassion to our action?



Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

(Ephesians 4:32)

 

[spockrates]

Every act of God is an act of Love, because GOD is love. We define Love by GOD himself, not by our conception of love.

Do we also define Truth by God Himself, Fide?

 

[Bluegoat]

Western Christianity does tend to define God as emotion-less. This is discussed in some length by St Anselm in the Proslogion. He says we attribute emotions such as mercy to God because we feel the effect of mercy, but not because it is an emotion God has.

The same would be true of love understood as an emotion. But Christianity does not really understand love as an emotion at all - although it recognizes that emotional state which tends to induce people to behave in a loving, or self-giving, way.

As I understand it, some Orthodox theologians take a somewhat different approach, where there is God in himself, who is beyond any description or human category, including even attributes like omnipotence. and then God who has attributes which we can in some way relate to. But in fact these are not two Gods in any way, simply God somehow making himself knowable to us and relating to creation… I can’t say more as I don’t know much about this approach, and I have probably not presented it quite correctly.

 

[spockrates]

Western Christianity does tend to define God as emotion-less. This is discussed in some length by St Anselm in the Proslogion. He says we attribute emotions such as mercy to God because we feel the effect of mercy, but not because it is an emotion God has.

The same would be true of love understood as an emotion. But Christianity does not really understand love as an emotion at all - although it recognizes that emotional state which tends to induce people to behave in a loving, or self-giving, way.

As I understand it, some Orthodox theologians take a somewhat different approach, where there is God in himself, who is beyond any description or human category, including even attributes like omnipotence. and then God who has attributes which we can in some way relate to. But in fact these are not two Gods in any way, simply God somehow making himself knowable to us and relating to creation… I can’t say more as I don’t know much about this approach, and I have probably not presented it quite correctly.

Thank you, Blue. Please let me ask you this: Exactly how are we to imitate God?

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

(Ephesians 5:1-2)

 

[Bluegoat]

Thank you, Blue. Please let me ask you this: Exactly how are we to imitate God?

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

(Ephesians 5:1-2)

By aspiring to be completely self giving. It does not matter that you do not feel love toward your neighbour, or even to God - you must be loving. Act in your annoying neighbour’s interest, desire the good for him, and keep an open heart toward all people. Always try to understand other people which aids empathy and allows you to act in a helpful way, and don’t hang your own issues on other people. Both take them as they are in love and hope that they fulfill all their potential in love.

 

[spockrates]

By aspiring to be completely self giving. It does not matter that you do not feel love toward your neighbour, or even to God - you must be loving. Act in your annoying neighbour’s interest, desire the good for him, and keep an open heart toward all people. Always try to understand other people which aids empathy and allows you to act in a helpful way, and don’t hang your own issues on other people. Both take them as they are in love and hope that they fulfill all their potential in love.

So we should do our best to act in a way that benefits others but avoid feeling any compassion for them? Spoken like a true Vulcan!

 

[Bluegoat]

So we should do our best to act in a way that benefits others but avoid feeling any compassion for them? Spoken like a true Vulcan!

Not at all. There is nothing wrong with feeling compassion or other emotions. It can even be appropriate to try to arouse emotion within ourselves if that helps us to behave in a certain way. But, we cannot allow lack of emotion, or negative emotions, to prevent us from right behavior.

 

[spockrates]

Not at all. There is nothing wrong with feeling compassion or other emotions. It can even be appropriate to try to arouse emotion within ourselves if that helps us to behave in a certain way. But, we cannot allow lack of emotion, or negative emotions, to prevent us from right behavior.

Then should we not consider the truth about our feelings about whether God feels any compassion? Logic appears to require that we do, for the Sacred Scriptures tell us to imitate God. Consider this:

w = how we are to love others

G = how God loves others

If we are to imitate God, then

w = G

does it not?