God's mercy and animals?

[uglygal]

Hello, I have asked this question in the Moral Theology section for a Catholic perspective, but am also interested in non-catholic views on the following:

Why has God sentenced billions of living creatures to unending slaughter, generation after generation without end - such as pigs, cows, lambs, chickens? Why is this his will for billions of living and feeling creatures, who experience fear and pain, to exist purely for human consumption and abuse?
How is this not evil?

I appreciate your comments

 

[Trishie]

Genesis 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Note that God is directing humankind to eat whatever was available in the trees, [fruits, nuts], but makes no mention of eating flesh.

Genesis 2:19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

We don’t have to eat animals. Many make the choice to do so, others make the choice not to. God doesn’t command us to eat animals. I have a great deal of compassion for animals also and it worries me that they suffer as they do.

It is up to us to have compassion on the animals that God placed in our care, in Genesis 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

 

[vsedriver]

Hello, I have asked this question in the Moral Theology section for a Catholic perspective, but am also interested in non-catholic views on the following:

Why has God sentenced billions of living creatures to unending slaughter, generation after generation without end - such as pigs, cows, lambs, chickens? Why is this his will for billions of living and feeling creatures, who experience fear and pain, to exist purely for human consumption and abuse?
How is this not evil?

I appreciate your comments

I suppose it is no different from the unending slaughter of millions of animals by millions of other animals. So I guess if it is OK for an animal to eat another animal then I have no moral qualms about me eating another animal. Fortunately I have the luxury of eating home raised livestock, and corn feed deer. So I know how my animals are treated.

We are morally obligated to minimize an animal’s suffering and pain during the slaughter process but that is more for our benefit than the animal’s.

It’s one of the reasons I was opposed to the ban on horse slaughter in the USA. Horses suffer far more now that they have to be transported such long distances to out of country slaughter houses.

 

[Newbie2]

Hello, I have asked this question in the Moral Theology section for a Catholic perspective, but am also interested in non-catholic views on the following:

Why has God sentenced billions of living creatures to unending slaughter, generation after generation without end - such as pigs, cows, lambs, chickens? Why is this his will for billions of living and feeling creatures, who experience fear and pain, to exist purely for human consumption and abuse?
How is this not evil?

I appreciate your comments

God made them. He can make them for any purpose he chooses.

They don’t exist for human “abuse”; I think your term here is loaded… …but I’ll take your meaning to mean “abused in some cases”, which is morally objectionable from either a Catholic or non-Catholic perspective.

 

[Barbkw]

Be aware, that Earth and animal worshippers, (the Harm None societies) are generally militantly pro abortion.

How is that not evil?

 

[Shin]

Hello, I have asked this question in the Moral Theology section for a Catholic perspective, but am also interested in non-catholic views on the following:

Why has God sentenced billions of living creatures to unending slaughter, generation after generation without end - such as pigs, cows, lambs, chickens? Why is this his will for billions of living and feeling creatures, who experience fear and pain, to exist purely for human consumption and abuse?
How is this not evil?

I appreciate your comments

Life itself is a precious gift, no matter how difficult or brief, it is worth more than all the difficulties.

 

[vera_dicere]

Christ likely ate fish.

And the Bible has mentioned He ate passover with his Apostles. So, he would have been eating lamb.

If the Son of God can eat lamb, then there’s no reason why we shouldn’t.

But as having grown up on a farm, I don’t think its moral to abuse animals, ie. factory farms. I like to know my meat had a nice life and was free to run around and do animal things and not be crammd in a pen inside all day with 2000 others being fed antibotics and growth hormones.

 

[Newbie2]

Christ likely ate fish.

And the Bible has mentioned He ate passover with his Apostles. So, he would have been eating lamb.

If the Son of God can eat lamb, then there’s no reason why we shouldn’t.

But as having grown up on a farm, I don’t think its moral to abuse animals, ie. factory farms. I like to know my meat had a nice life and was free to run around and do animal things and not be crammd in a pen inside all day with 2000 others being fed antibotics and growth hormones.

Kosher slaughter is not exactly the most humane way to kill an animal either…

 

[Trishie]

Be aware, that Earth and animal worshippers, (the Harm None societies) are generally militantly pro abortion.

How is that not evil?

Yes there are extremists in most areas of human thought, but the OP was expressing a simple hurt and concern.

A concern for God’s creatures is not animal worshipping. It is merely a concern for God’s creatures.

Is it your feeling that St Francis was an animal worshipper because he loved and protected God’s animal creatures? Francis of Assisi: “If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.”

And the Carmelite Orders have as a part of their Rule that meat is not to be consumed in ordinary daily life?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2416 Animals are God’s creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory.196 Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a7.htm

 

[Shin]

The reason meat is not consumed, is because of mortification of the appetite and body.

It is better to live, however briefly, and experience difficulties, than never the exist at all. Life itself always strives to live. The pains experienced do not outweigh the virtue of the gift of life itself.

So God can create as He pleases.

 

[Trishie]

Be aware, that Earth and animal worshippers, (the Harm None societies) are generally militantly pro abortion.

How is that not evil?

Yes there are extremists in most areas of human thought, but the OP was expressing a simple hurt and concern.

A concern for God’s creatures is not animal worshipping. It is merely a concern for God’s creatures.

Is it your feeling that St Francis was an animal worshipper because he loved and protected God’s animal creatures? Francis of Assisi: "If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men."

The Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**2416 Animals are God’s creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory.196 Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals.
**
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a7.htm

 

[Sufjon]

Dear Friend Uglygal: You have shown a good deal of kindness to have concern for animals. I think there are some people who, no matter how they struggle with themselves are just good to the core. They seldom see themselves that way, but that’s what they are. Just good to the core. In spite of their struggles, such people can trust their own intuition on matters of ethics and good vs bad better than most. Their internal hardships cause them such deep introspection that they question the essence of things that others take for granted or simply fail to properly consider. That said, my sense is that you are one of these people who can trust their own intuition. So what does your intuition tell you on this matter?

Oh, I did forget that you asked for a non-Catholic answer as well. Yes, in my faith it is wrong do such things to animals or any sentient being. It follows that I do not eat animals, or wear belts, shoes or anything made from animals, but this is a common practice for us. Not universally observed by all of my fellow devotees by any means, but very common nonetheless.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Dee_Katia]

The laws of kashrut were at least partially created out of sensitivity for the feelings of animals - for example, that’s the only rational explanation for why the Torah says we cannot “boil a kid in its mother’s milk” - the feelings of the animal are to be taken into account.

I’ve also heard the view that the “best case scenario” would be for everyone to be vegetarian, but that G-d realized humans weren’t perfect and so allowed meat-eating, but only under these proscribed rules.

I used to be vegan, so I hear you on this. At the end of the day, however, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m ok with meat eating as long as I know that the animal has had a normal (grass-eating, wing-flapping) life and that it didn’t suffer when it died.

 

[pipper]

I have three dogs and they are beloved pets. When the fourth one died she died with her head in my lap being stroked to the end. But in the Jewish tradition and other cultures dogs are disrespected. I have Greek Orthodox friends who will not even let their dogs in the house, and have heard of G.O. churches that don’t even let seeing-eye dogs in the church. Everyone must have heard the bible saying 'a dog returns to it’s own vomit.

I live on a small farm and feed the birds, don’t shoot them and God help anyone who does on my property.

But I can’t be vegan since I am hypo-glycemic and need protein.

 

[uglygal]

God made them. He can make them for any purpose he chooses.

They don’t exist for human “abuse”; I think your term here is loaded… …but I’ll take your meaning to mean “abused in some cases”, which is morally objectionable from either a Catholic or non-Catholic perspective.

i don’t find “abuse” to be a loaded term at all. It’s unpleasant and confronting but an honest description of how many of them are treated.

You say that God made them and could do so for any reason. So following from this, how is their purpose reconciled to the divine mercy??

 

[uglygal]

Be aware, that Earth and animal worshippers, (the Harm None societies) are generally militantly pro abortion.

How is that not evil?

Hmm, I’m not sure whether this was directed at me or just a general comment. As for myself, I am not an earth or animal worshipper and I am not militantly pro-abortion. The reason why I don’t support abortion is, the very same reason why, I ask this question. A concern for how the weakest and seemingly “useless” lives are treated by those who are somewhat considered “superior”.

the crux of my question really is to gain some understanding of how catholics, and other religions, reconcile the divine mercy of God and his will (or design) for those creatures whose sole purpose (‘because God willed it to be so’) is to be born, slain and devoured for a human?

I hope this clarifies my thoughts

 

[uglygal]

Dear Friend Uglygal: You have shown a good deal of kindness to have concern for animals. I think there are some people who, no matter how they struggle with themselves are just good to the core. They seldom see themselves that way, but that’s what they are. Just good to the core. In spite of their struggles, such people can trust their own intuition on matters of ethics and good vs bad better than most. Their internal hardships cause them such deep introspection that they question the essence of things that others take for granted or simply fail to properly consider. That said, my sense is that you are one of these people who can trust their own intuition. So what does your intuition tell you on this matter?

Oh, I did forget that you asked for a non-Catholic answer as well. Yes, in my faith it is wrong do such things to animals or any sentient being. It follows that I do not eat animals, or wear belts, shoes or anything made from animals, but this is a common practice for us. Not universally observed by all of my fellow devotees by any means, but very common nonetheless.

Your friend
Sufjon

Hi sufijon,
What faith do you follow, if you don’t mind me asking. I am aware that there are several faiths with a high emphasis on compassion for animals - buddhism, hinduism, jainism.
I don’t want this post to become about me but to answer your question, my conscience tells me that the way animals are treated and even perceived, is wrong. Personally, I do not eat animals, or wear clothes, leather etc made from them.

 

[uglygal]

The laws of kashrut were at least partially created out of sensitivity for the feelings of animals - for example, that’s the only rational explanation for why the Torah says we cannot “boil a kid in its mother’s milk” - the feelings of the animal are to be taken into account.

I’ve also heard the view that the “best case scenario” would be for everyone to be vegetarian, but that G-d realized humans weren’t perfect and so allowed meat-eating, but only under these proscribed rules.

I used to be vegan, so I hear you on this. At the end of the day, however, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m ok with meat eating as long as I know that the animal has had a normal (grass-eating, wing-flapping) life and that it didn’t suffer when it died.

Hi Dee-Katia, thankyou for your reply.
I have also heard that the Jewish Yahweh created humans as vegetarians but then following the floods (think Noah!) allowed meat eating. I also believe that some Christian groups (7th day adventist perhaps?) also have the view that vegetarianism is God’s will but meat eating is allowed in time of famine - namely, for survival!

The key thing I was wondering when I asked the question, was how animal slaughter, and I guess in the context of Judaism animal sacrifices, are reconciled with the divine mercy of God?
A jewish perspective would be great!
Thankyou for participating

 

[Sufjon]

Hi sufijon,
What faith do you follow, if you don’t mind me asking. I am aware that there are several faiths with a high emphasis on compassion for animals - buddhism, hinduism, jainism.
I don’t want this post to become about me but to answer your question, my conscience tells me that the way animals are treated and even perceived, is wrong. Personally, I do not eat animals, or wear clothes, leather etc made from them.

Dear Uglygal: I am a Hindu yogi who hopes to become a sadhu eventually. Simply put - just a man burning away his baggage so that I might more clearly see. My apologies if I made it seem that I thought the post was about you. My point was that I trust you and your conscience. I clearly see your dilemma in trying to reconcile God’s mercy with the cycle of misery that is heaped on innocent animals. I used to struggle with that question and many related ones as well. I hope you find your answers.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[uglygal]

Dear Uglygal: I am a Hindu yogi who hopes to become a sadhu eventually. Simply put - just a man burning away his baggage so that I might more clearly see. My apologies if I made it seem that I thought the post was about you. My point was that I trust you and your conscience. I clearly see your dilemma in trying to reconcile God’s mercy with the cycle of misery that is heaped on innocent animals. I used to struggle with that question and many related ones as well. I hope you find your answers.

Your friend
Sufjon

thankyou Sufijon.
Please don’t apologise. I didnt mean to come across as rebuking you etc, just that I didn’t want this thread to become about my personal choices. I want to explore the place of God in the lives and destiny of animals - his very own creatures!
You say “I clearly see your dilemma in trying to reconcile God’s mercy with the cycle of misery that is heaped on innocent animals”.
may I ask whether your faith reconciles this in some way?

I would also appreciate answers from any other creeds.
Thankyou