skimming through more of the thread, it seems that this thread’s been derailed with different issues being thrown in to the mix and is no longer about “Allah’s plan”…
some issues that need to be clarified with regards to islamic beliefs:
- born perfect. we don’t believe this, at least not in the sense that you’re thinking. there are two types of perfection: the first, absolute perfection; and this is an attribute belonging to Allah alone. the second being relative perfection; and this is an attribute that is relative to whatever is being described with it. i.e., the creation is perfect in the sense that it does what Allah created it to do. everything is subservient to His commands and everything happens perfectly according to His universal commands. humans are perfect at being what they were created to be, i.e., humans. etc.
as for when we are born, islamic belief is that we are born with clean slates. just as Allah says in the Quran, “
say: is other than Allah sought as a lord while He is the Lord of everything? each soul will not earn except what is upon it and no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. then to your Lord is your return and you will be informed of what you used to differ in.” (6:164) and He says, “
whoever is guided, then certainly, he is guided for himself. and whoever went astray, then certainly, he goes astray according to it (i.e., his own self) and no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. and We are not punishers until We sent a messenger.” (17:15) and He says, “
no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. and one who is burdened calls to his load, nothing will be carried for him even if he was a relative.” 35:18 and He says, “
if you disbelieve, then surely, Allah is free of need from you and He is not pleased with disbelief for His slaves. and if you are thankful, He is pleased with it for you. no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. then to your Lord is our return and He will inform you of what you used to do. surely, He is Knowledgeable what the chests’ nature.” (39:7) and He says, “
that no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another and that it is not for the human being except what he endeavoured.” (53:38-39).
one who has just been born has not had the opportunity to do anything - whether good or bad. islamic belief is also that the pen is lifted for certain individuals. among these are children who have not reached the age of accountability. so those who haven’t reached this age are not held accountable for what they do. their good and bad deeds are not recorded until they reach this age, which is when they hit puberty.
regarding the second point in janG’s first post, islamic belief is that although adam and eve were the first humans to sin, sin did not enter the world when they were mislead by iblees (lucifer/satan). as for death, then as Allah says in the Quran, “
each soul is a taster of death. and certainly, you will be paid your rewards in full on the day of standing. so whoever is torn from the fire and entered into paradise, then he has succeeded. and the wordly life is only enjoyment of self delusion.” (3:185). death is a part of this worldly life, which is a temporary life for us in which we are tested. death is not a punishment that was given to all of mankind for the sin of two people.
as for this:
janG:
You have ZERO proof that the Koran is a recitation of a revelation from God. You only have Mohammed’s word on that. You have just blindly accepted the word of that one man. You have not learned the truth from God…you have learned what you think is the truth from Mohammed.
i find it quite amusing how you limit it to the testimony of a single person, despite the hundreds of companions who walked, ate, slept and accompanied him day and night, those who testify to his truthfulness and who witnessed the revelation being revealed first hand. their statements and testimonies, as well as their biographies, are preserved and verifiable in a way that no other nation has ever seen before. the same can’t be said about those whose testimonies you claim to go by.
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