Going back to male servers?

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Bluegoat said:
There have, I believe, for a very long time been female altar servers in convents and such. Which seems to me to indicate that it has long been the case that having a female altar server is preferable to none, and that the main purpose is not to create vocations, but to actually help the priest.
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That’s an interesting point. Who would have served at the altar in a convent? Particularly the Poor Claire’s in Assisi.
 
minkymurph said:
That’s an interesting point. Who would have served at the altar in a convent? Particularly the Poor Claire’s in Assisi.
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Interesting that in the Philippines, only males are allowed to be EMHCs. The exception are religious sisters who can also distribute the Eucharist. So the only female EMHCs are the ones wearing a habit. And this rule probably began from convents and monasteries where there are cloistered nuns and usually there are bars that separate the cloistered nuns from the public and the nuns sit close to the altar. So when it comes for communion, no one else can approach the altar to get the Hosts and give communion to the public except the nuns. Of course not every nun does this, I believe only a select few because the point of being cloistered nuns is they are cut off from the world. One particular monastery that does so is St. Clare.
 
minkymurph said:
And on what is this opinion based? The fact that it puts you off? Or the fact that it puts all boys off? And your way of dealing with the immature attitudes of young, or adolescent boys towards girls is remove girls from the scene so boys can feel better about it?
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Yes.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Yes.
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Well that’s okay, everyone has their own way of dealing with things 🙂 Those who don’t want girl altar servers can just go to Mass where there aren’t any. And those who like seeing boys and girls as altar servers can just go to Mass where there are. And all will be right in the world, because you know, it is big enough for both sides of the coin 🙂
 
Rence said:
Well that’s okay, everyone has their own way of dealing with things 🙂 Those who don’t want girl altar servers can just go to Mass where there aren’t any. And those who like seeing boys and girls as altar servers can just go to Mass where there are. And all will be right in the world, because you know, it is big enough for both sides of the coin 🙂
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What “thing” is there to “deal with?”
 
minkymurph said:
That’s an interesting point. Who would have served at the altar in a convent? Particularly the Poor Claire’s in Assisi.
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Nuns had priests or a priest that is assigned to them, and as stated before everything altar servers do can be done by one priest.
 
minkymurph said:
And on what is this opinion based? The fact that it puts you off? Or the fact that it puts all boys off? And your way of dealing with the immature attitudes of young, or adolescent boys towards girls is remove girls from the scene so boys can feel better about it?

I know plenty of men who were altar servers and didn’t become priests. I also know priests who were not altar servers. Is recruitment to the priesthood the only purpose of being an altar server? You shouldn’t do it for any other reason?

You’re absolutely right. Arguing won’t change anyone’s nature, not just young boys.
However, endorsing the views you have outlined above is another matter. I would also question attempting to make serving at the altar appear more ‘masculine’ by preventing girls from doing it as a strategy to attract boys. I have two sons, and if one of them told they didn’t want to become an altar server because girls do it as well and they are concerned about their manly image, and that doing something girls can as well as boys do feminizes them, I would be giving them a serious talking to. Not that that would happen because in their short memories both girls and boys have always been altar servers, so they wouldn’t equate being an altar server with one gender. In addition, they both play football and have not been put off it because there are girls in their teams. Neither do they, or any of the other boys who play, consider football ‘girlie’ thing to do because girls now play in their team, or think football ‘feminizes’ them because girls play in their team. Therefore, if they don’t hold these opinions in relation to football, not to mention many other activities that both girls and boys participate in together, one would have to ask why they would have these opinions in relation to being altar servers?

I would have serious concerns about a young or adolescent boy who holds the views you have outlined above wanting to become a priest. Not wanting to do something just because girls can do it as well boys, and because he’s concerned about his ‘manly’ image would suggest to me that for a prospective priest, his attitude and disposition leaves something to be desired.
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Good post, well said. I had not thought that having females as altar servers was an issue. It obviously is to some who are unhappy about changes after Vatican II.
 
minkymurph said:
That’s an interesting point. Who would have served at the altar in a convent? Particularly the Poor Claire’s in Assisi.
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In my all-girl Catholic high school, girls served at the altar in the convent…when my mom was a kid, the priest would bring two boys with him from all-boy schools. But they didn’t have to do that anymore since girls were allowed then too.
 
Rence said:
In my all-girl Catholic high school, girls served at the altar in the convent…when my mom was a kid, the priest would bring two boys with him from all-boy schools. But they didn’t have to do that anymore since girls were allowed then too.
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Yes, at my Catholic schools too or the nuns served. What about masses at home? Never had any priest say only the males could serve.
 
:mad::mad::confused:I’m all for male alter servers. We have a six year old girl serving our priest and she does not do a very good job, she can’t even reach to light the candles on the alter, and I think this is too young to be an alter server.
 
Renko said:
:mad::mad::confused:I’m all for male alter servers. We have a six year old girl serving our priest and she does not do a very good job, she can’t even reach to light the candles on the alter, and I think this is too young to be an alter server.
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I’d say that’s more due to the age than her being a female. I don’t doubt that girls have the intellectual ability to serve mass. That’s not the point.
 
Renko said:
:mad::mad::confused:I’m all for male alter servers. We have a six year old girl serving our priest and she does not do a very good job, she can’t even reach to light the candles on the alter, and I think this is too young to be an alter server.
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Well, depends really. There are many roles for altar servers and definitely this age (male or female) can fulfill some roles, but not all. The lighting of candles should be done by older servers. Someone this young should be a candlebearer for processions. Thats it.
 
If one looks at the progression of vocations from altar server to lector then cantor then deacon and later priest, you can see that there is very much a succession of the minor orders to the major orders.

In allowing female servers, there is a strongly implied consent favoring female priesthood, which is expressly disalowed in the Catholic Church.

The age at which boys start serving at the altar is a time when they are piecing together how society as a whole works. In essence a mixed message is sent regarding the role of the priesthood, starting with the minor order of acolyte, which they then avoid altogether.

To say that that attitude extends into the adult workplace, as has been suggested, is ridiculous. At adolescents we think as adolescents, through wisdom and experience we grow into adulthood and experience life in a different way. (1 Corinthians 13:11)"When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things. "
 
RE: Boys don’t want to alter serve with girls because it makes alter serving “girly”.
  1. I assume that means you can’t have co-ed anything at that point, or something might become “too girly” for someone.
  2. You’d think some teenage boys would WANT to do things with girls their own age, not be cowed away by “girly things because a girl wants them”.
Unless they failed to abrogate the Canon Law.that denotes “cooties” are the defined punishment for a mixed girly event.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Yes. Young boys are immature. Even adolescents would react, to an extent, the same way. I myself am an adolescent.

I think the use of altar girls is one of the reasons that has led to a decline in priestly vocations. When girls volunteer for serving at the altar, boys, whether out of immaturity or something else, don’t volunteer nearly as much, unless they’re voluntold by their parents or something. When boys don’t serve at the altar, they’re missing a critical step in making the decision to become a priest. If a boy is on the edge and he is offered serving at the altar to “try it out” and he actually does it, then that boy may very well go through and become a priest. It’s like job shadowing. However, if the young boy is like “eewie” and doesn’t do it because his sister is doing it, then he loses that experience, an experience that may well, as I said, make him want to become a priest.

This is primarily the concern of the nature of young boys. ** They don’t want to do things that girls are doing, because either directly or indirectly, it feminizes them in a way. I’d venture to say that, as a male myself, this continues for a male’s entire life, but perhaps lessening a bit with age. Males are concerned with maintaining a manly image. **Serving at the altar with girls, in some ways, threatens this image, especially for young boys. Now we can argue that this is just pride and blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is that we aren’t going to change the nature of young boys by arguing about it.

Therefore, I stand by my opinion that the institution of altar girls is one of the reasons that there has been a drop in priestly vocations, because, through their own nature, it makes boys not want to do it, depriving them of the one experience they can have of doing some of the things the priest does.
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So I take it — when you marry and have children – you would not change your baby’s diaper, push your child in a stroller, help your wife – with housework. Help her out by cooking a meal.
 
Giuseppe_Gavino said:
Nuns had priests or a priest that is assigned to them, and as stated before everything altar servers do can be done by one priest.
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Then perhaps we don’t need altar servers at all.

Was one of the arguments you presented not, ‘women aren’t needed?’
 
Walking_Home said:
So I take it — when you marry and have children – you would not change your baby’s diaper, push your child in a stroller, help your wife – with housework. Help her out by cooking a meal.
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No, I will not. Cause I have no intention on getting married because I intend to be a Priest, whichh should be an ultimate goal for Altar BOYS. (One of many fruits of going to an all-male server Parish).

~ Pius :knight1:
 
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