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Prester_John
Guest
Tree Hugger, believe not, every spirit… to para-qoute from Paul.
And, O Beloved (to be specific, I quote me), DON’T BE SO CREDIBLE.
- Status
And, O Beloved (to be specific, I quote me), DON’T BE SO CREDIBLE.
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Prester_John
Guest
In reply to this very interesting string, and in response to Barrister…
Lighten up already! This person will not risk their immortal soul in greater extreme than any other person satisfying their curiosity. I see no unconscoious desire to solicit permission or whatever.
And the well-meant advice to carry holy water was good, but would the individuals who follow the creeds of Protestant-minded priests please at least "advertize " thier fidelity to stupidity with some kind of prelude( I don’t mean you, ***Barrister. ***).
You should be aware, that if by chance you meet a spirit, you may be honoured by a visit from a soul suffering in Purgatory. In this case, you are obliged to pray for this soul in need, offer masses in you can, and I recomend the Chaplet Rosary of St Michael the Archangel.
The person that thinks all ghosts are evil spirits obviously cannot walk and chew bubble-gum at the same time, but the discerning Catholic knows to reserve Judgement even for what seems to be the spirits of the dead until they can reason whether the encounter merits prayer for the apparition, or simply prayer for oneself. In either case, the Devil loses; prayer and grace are a truly extraordinary repellant to what is evil.
Take watever precautions you feel are prudent. Holy water is excellnt, but if you want to see some spooks, few will be able to appear in the presence of the implicit graces of the Blessed water, and you may find yourself being a kind of traffic sign to heaven - boring, really if you want to actually see a spirit.
If your tour takes you any where near a place alledged to contain the presence of a demon, avoid it completely. There 2 kinds of exorcism, that of persons and that of places, niether of which should be taken lightly
Lighten up already! This person will not risk their immortal soul in greater extreme than any other person satisfying their curiosity. I see no unconscoious desire to solicit permission or whatever.
And the well-meant advice to carry holy water was good, but would the individuals who follow the creeds of Protestant-minded priests please at least "advertize " thier fidelity to stupidity with some kind of prelude( I don’t mean you, ***Barrister. ***).
You should be aware, that if by chance you meet a spirit, you may be honoured by a visit from a soul suffering in Purgatory. In this case, you are obliged to pray for this soul in need, offer masses in you can, and I recomend the Chaplet Rosary of St Michael the Archangel.
The person that thinks all ghosts are evil spirits obviously cannot walk and chew bubble-gum at the same time, but the discerning Catholic knows to reserve Judgement even for what seems to be the spirits of the dead until they can reason whether the encounter merits prayer for the apparition, or simply prayer for oneself. In either case, the Devil loses; prayer and grace are a truly extraordinary repellant to what is evil.
Take watever precautions you feel are prudent. Holy water is excellnt, but if you want to see some spooks, few will be able to appear in the presence of the implicit graces of the Blessed water, and you may find yourself being a kind of traffic sign to heaven - boring, really if you want to actually see a spirit.
If your tour takes you any where near a place alledged to contain the presence of a demon, avoid it completely. There 2 kinds of exorcism, that of persons and that of places, niether of which should be taken lightly
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Prester_John
Guest
Rayne89, perhaps it is time to get your nose out of your scrapbooks, direct your predilections away from apologetics and broaden your horizons to include more of our Catholic Faiths’ beautiful multicultural and trans-generational fabric of lore and learning.
There is a big difference between being a boss, and just being bossy.
…and please, lighten up.
Sincerely and respectfully,
Prester John
There is a big difference between being a boss, and just being bossy.
…and please, lighten up.
Sincerely and respectfully,
Prester John
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JCPhoenix
Guest
Prester,
Your name-calling is not only out of place, but it’s competely disrespectful. Just as we are, you are entitled to your opinion but please refrain from insulting everyone in the forum.
Sure, it’s possible for a “spirit” to be a poor soul from purgatory…but all spirits SHOULD be tested. Discernment is the key, as you yourself have noted.
NOW! In case that “jackass” comment was ment for me as I tend to agree with the Ghost Hunters I cited, let me qualify my position by stating that IN MY OWN PERSONAL AND TERRIFYING EXPERIENCE ghosts have ALWAYS been evil spirits.
Amazing how someone can enter a thread in which people are voicing opinions in a concerned and peaceable way, and then some other person comes along and throws a bucket of rotten eggs into the mix just to start a fight.
Take your piss and vinegar elsewhere if that’s your intention. If you have something peaceable to say in a spirit of charitibility, then please continue to add your possibly valid opinion.
Your name-calling is not only out of place, but it’s competely disrespectful. Just as we are, you are entitled to your opinion but please refrain from insulting everyone in the forum.
Sure, it’s possible for a “spirit” to be a poor soul from purgatory…but all spirits SHOULD be tested. Discernment is the key, as you yourself have noted.
NOW! In case that “jackass” comment was ment for me as I tend to agree with the Ghost Hunters I cited, let me qualify my position by stating that IN MY OWN PERSONAL AND TERRIFYING EXPERIENCE ghosts have ALWAYS been evil spirits.
Amazing how someone can enter a thread in which people are voicing opinions in a concerned and peaceable way, and then some other person comes along and throws a bucket of rotten eggs into the mix just to start a fight.
Take your piss and vinegar elsewhere if that’s your intention. If you have something peaceable to say in a spirit of charitibility, then please continue to add your possibly valid opinion.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
You should go to Disneyland and check out the Haunted Mansion. There’s ghosts all over the place in there.
Alan
Alan
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_Toves
Guest
I came across the following info under the apologetics threads. This is what Peggy Frye thinks about the whole ghost issue. Just thought some of you might find it interesting 
~First, the Church forbids us to conjure up the dead (*Catechism *2116-2117). Peter Kreeft in his book *Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Heaven *(pgs 34-35) says the reason for “this stricture is probably protection against the danger of deception by evil spirits. We are out of our depth, our knowledge, and our control once we open the doors to the supernatural. The only openings that are safe for us are the ones God has approved: revelation, prayer, His own miracles, sacraments, and primarily Christ Himself…The danger is not physical but spiritual, and spiritual danger always centers on deception.”
“Nevertheless, without our action or invitation, the dead often do appear to the living. There is enormous evidence of “ghosts” in all cultures. What are we to make of them?” He goes on to say “We can distinguish three kinds of ghosts, I believe. First, the most familiar kind: the sad ones, the wispy ones. They seem to be working out some unfinished earthly business, or suffering some purgatorial purification until released from their earthly business. These ghosts would seem to be the ones who just barely made it to Purgatory, who feel little or no joy yet and who need to learn many painful lessons about their past lives on earth.
Second, there are malicious and deceptive spirits—and since they are deceptive, they hardly ever appear malicious. These are probably the ones who respond to conjurings at seances. They probably come from Hell. Even the chance of that happening should be sufficient to terrify away all temptations to necromancy."
“Third, there are bright, happy spirits of dead friends and family, especially spouses, who appear unbidden, at God’s will, not ours, with messages of hope and love. They seem to come from Heaven. Unlike the purgatorial ghosts who come back primarily for their own sakes, these bright spirits come back for the sake of us the living, to tell us all is well. They are aped by evil spirits who say the same, who speak ‘peace, peace, when there is no peace’. But the deception works only one way: the fake can deceive by appearing genuine, but the genuine never deceives by appearing fake. Heavenly spirits always convince us that they are genuinely good. Even the bright spirits appear ghostlike to us because a ghost of any type is one whose substance does not belong in or come from this world. In Heaven these spirits are not ghosts but real, solid and substantial because they are at home there: One can’t be a ghost in one’s own country.”
“That there are all three kinds of ghosts is enormously likely. Even taking into account our penchant to deceive and be deceived, our credulity and fakery, there remain so many trustworthy accounts of all three types of ghosts - trustworthy by every ordinary empirical and psychological standard - that only a dogmatic prejudice against them could prevent us from believing they exist. As Chesterton says, 'We believe an old apple woman when she says she ate an apple; but when she says she saw a ghost, we say ‘But she’s only an old apple woman.’ A most undemocratic and unscientific prejudice."
Recommeded reading:
Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Heaven
By Peter Kreeft
Ghosts and Poltergeists
By Herbert Thurston, SJ
Seven Kinds of Ghosts
Seven Kinds of Ghosts (article)
By Bro. John-Paul Ignatius~
~First, the Church forbids us to conjure up the dead (*Catechism *2116-2117). Peter Kreeft in his book *Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Heaven *(pgs 34-35) says the reason for “this stricture is probably protection against the danger of deception by evil spirits. We are out of our depth, our knowledge, and our control once we open the doors to the supernatural. The only openings that are safe for us are the ones God has approved: revelation, prayer, His own miracles, sacraments, and primarily Christ Himself…The danger is not physical but spiritual, and spiritual danger always centers on deception.”
“Nevertheless, without our action or invitation, the dead often do appear to the living. There is enormous evidence of “ghosts” in all cultures. What are we to make of them?” He goes on to say “We can distinguish three kinds of ghosts, I believe. First, the most familiar kind: the sad ones, the wispy ones. They seem to be working out some unfinished earthly business, or suffering some purgatorial purification until released from their earthly business. These ghosts would seem to be the ones who just barely made it to Purgatory, who feel little or no joy yet and who need to learn many painful lessons about their past lives on earth.
Second, there are malicious and deceptive spirits—and since they are deceptive, they hardly ever appear malicious. These are probably the ones who respond to conjurings at seances. They probably come from Hell. Even the chance of that happening should be sufficient to terrify away all temptations to necromancy."
“Third, there are bright, happy spirits of dead friends and family, especially spouses, who appear unbidden, at God’s will, not ours, with messages of hope and love. They seem to come from Heaven. Unlike the purgatorial ghosts who come back primarily for their own sakes, these bright spirits come back for the sake of us the living, to tell us all is well. They are aped by evil spirits who say the same, who speak ‘peace, peace, when there is no peace’. But the deception works only one way: the fake can deceive by appearing genuine, but the genuine never deceives by appearing fake. Heavenly spirits always convince us that they are genuinely good. Even the bright spirits appear ghostlike to us because a ghost of any type is one whose substance does not belong in or come from this world. In Heaven these spirits are not ghosts but real, solid and substantial because they are at home there: One can’t be a ghost in one’s own country.”
“That there are all three kinds of ghosts is enormously likely. Even taking into account our penchant to deceive and be deceived, our credulity and fakery, there remain so many trustworthy accounts of all three types of ghosts - trustworthy by every ordinary empirical and psychological standard - that only a dogmatic prejudice against them could prevent us from believing they exist. As Chesterton says, 'We believe an old apple woman when she says she ate an apple; but when she says she saw a ghost, we say ‘But she’s only an old apple woman.’ A most undemocratic and unscientific prejudice."
Recommeded reading:
Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Heaven
By Peter Kreeft
Ghosts and Poltergeists
By Herbert Thurston, SJ
Seven Kinds of Ghosts
Seven Kinds of Ghosts (article)
By Bro. John-Paul Ignatius~
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rayne89
Guest
Prester John:
I also find your remark about being bossy quite humorous considering the way you rant at other people.
Blessed are the humble in spirit - you my friend are not blessed in this way. You are just the fountain of knowledge aren’t you? Perhaps it’s time you got nose out of the air you could see yourself in the mirror. May I suggest you direct your predilections away from spreading the gospel according to Prestor John and broaden your horizons to include less of your ownself importance.
Sorry that was not very charitable but then again calling a person a jack *** isn’t either. I make no apologies for what I believe. If I didn’t worry about the dangers here I wouldn’t be so firm in my statements.
Sincerely and respectfully,
Rayne
I find it interesting that you that you would tell me to lighten up. I read some of your other posts and you have no problem ripping into people when it suits you. You have no problem calling people names and making pejorative remarks when it suits you.
I also find your remark about being bossy quite humorous considering the way you rant at other people.
Blessed are the humble in spirit - you my friend are not blessed in this way. You are just the fountain of knowledge aren’t you? Perhaps it’s time you got nose out of the air you could see yourself in the mirror. May I suggest you direct your predilections away from spreading the gospel according to Prestor John and broaden your horizons to include less of your ownself importance.
Sorry that was not very charitable but then again calling a person a jack *** isn’t either. I make no apologies for what I believe. If I didn’t worry about the dangers here I wouldn’t be so firm in my statements.
Sincerely and respectfully,
Rayne
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rayne89
Guest
**
Topic: Ghosts & Catholicism
Question:** The following question arose during a discussion at a faith study group of which I am a participant. I am hopeful you will be able to shed some light on the matter. The question: What exactly is the Church’s teaching on the existence of ghosts? Firstly, do they exist? If so, what exactly are they? Disembodied souls that…??? My understanding is that they do not exist. A disembodied soul is either in Heaven, on it’s way there (Purgatory) or that other place. I’m reminded of St. Paul’s statement in 2 Corinthians 5 when he says that being away from the body is being at home with the Lord. Therefore, my gut feel is that it doesn’t jive with Catholic theology to say that ghosts exist. I could very well be dead wrong is saying that but that is the very reason I’m sending you the question, to set me straight in my understanding of the topic.
Answer:
Your “gut feel” is quite right. According to the Council of Florence’s Decree “Laetentur caeli” (6 July 1439), the souls of those who have been purified from all sin (either in this life or in Purgatory) are immediately (mox) received into heaven and enjoy the clear vision of the triune God (DS 1305), which makes them perfectly happy. As for the souls in Purgatory, the tradition of the Church affirms that they experience a “cleansing fire,” which is meant to prepare them for entry into heaven (cf. CCC, par. 1031). The idea of disembodied spirits wandering about the earth–for the purpose of visiting their loved ones, of seeking worldly retribution for the injustices they suffered, etc.–is incompatible with the Christian faith, which affirms that God is the ultimate end of man, such that the faithful departed desire only to be united with him, + have no concern for earthly joys or worldly retribution.
Any paranormal phenomena which allegedly support the existence of “ghosts” should be treated with a healthly dose of scepticism by Christians (+ indeed, by any thinking person). It is not impossible that some of these incidents may be caused by evil spirits, the existence of which is affirmed by the Christian faith. Finally, it should be remembered that the Church condemns all forms of divination and spiritism (CCC, par. 2116-2117). Father Pierre Ingram
August 21, 2001
Topic: Ghosts & Catholicism
Question:** The following question arose during a discussion at a faith study group of which I am a participant. I am hopeful you will be able to shed some light on the matter. The question: What exactly is the Church’s teaching on the existence of ghosts? Firstly, do they exist? If so, what exactly are they? Disembodied souls that…??? My understanding is that they do not exist. A disembodied soul is either in Heaven, on it’s way there (Purgatory) or that other place. I’m reminded of St. Paul’s statement in 2 Corinthians 5 when he says that being away from the body is being at home with the Lord. Therefore, my gut feel is that it doesn’t jive with Catholic theology to say that ghosts exist. I could very well be dead wrong is saying that but that is the very reason I’m sending you the question, to set me straight in my understanding of the topic.
Answer:
Your “gut feel” is quite right. According to the Council of Florence’s Decree “Laetentur caeli” (6 July 1439), the souls of those who have been purified from all sin (either in this life or in Purgatory) are immediately (mox) received into heaven and enjoy the clear vision of the triune God (DS 1305), which makes them perfectly happy. As for the souls in Purgatory, the tradition of the Church affirms that they experience a “cleansing fire,” which is meant to prepare them for entry into heaven (cf. CCC, par. 1031). The idea of disembodied spirits wandering about the earth–for the purpose of visiting their loved ones, of seeking worldly retribution for the injustices they suffered, etc.–is incompatible with the Christian faith, which affirms that God is the ultimate end of man, such that the faithful departed desire only to be united with him, + have no concern for earthly joys or worldly retribution.
Any paranormal phenomena which allegedly support the existence of “ghosts” should be treated with a healthly dose of scepticism by Christians (+ indeed, by any thinking person). It is not impossible that some of these incidents may be caused by evil spirits, the existence of which is affirmed by the Christian faith. Finally, it should be remembered that the Church condemns all forms of divination and spiritism (CCC, par. 2116-2117). Father Pierre Ingram
August 21, 2001
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preyoflove
Guest
I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately and it seems to me that if the greatest pain our brothers and sisters feel in purgatory is not being with God in heaven immediately, why would they have to walk around here on Earth? I mean, they had a moment with God, face-to-face, in the Beautific Vision and I believe they got only one thing in their mind–to get to heaven as soon as possible.
Of course, it is also possible that they may appear to us to ask us to pray for their complete purification and release from purgatory into heaven. But walking around, making appearances to people–without even pleading for prayers from the living–I don’t think anyone should anywhere around these, whatever they are.
Shalom, amen.
Of course, it is also possible that they may appear to us to ask us to pray for their complete purification and release from purgatory into heaven. But walking around, making appearances to people–without even pleading for prayers from the living–I don’t think anyone should anywhere around these, whatever they are.
Shalom, amen.
U
UKStudent
Guest
It’s possible ghosts are trying to get prayers to helpthem into heaven, except being in purgatory stops them from talking. And as they leave purgatory, to try and make someone ELSE get them into heaven, it’s like they don’t trust God enough, and so they are cast out, back into the world, until they are purified by exorcism or prayer.Could that be possible?
I believe once this discussion degenerated from the answering of Tar’s question into a general debate, the rules of this forum give every member the right to their opinion, as long as they are respectful. And to me it looks like BlessedBe was perfectly respectful.
Prester, go get a life outside of flaming people on the internet. It’s not really funny - well it’s not funny because you haven’t got the wit to make it satiric - and it’s not clever.
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puzzleannie
Guest
darn, you took my song, now I will try and have to remember the Caspar theme
Caspar the friendly ghost the friendliest ghost you know
i forget the rest
Take a St. Benedict jubilee medal or cross, have it blessed by a Benedictine priest, which is a special blessing that contains a minor exorcism, since Benedict was, well, bedevilled by demons from time to time.
I wouldn’t count on seeing any actual ghosts, since you say this tour is “marketed” and you paid for it, it is obviously a scam, but hey, it’s your money.
Caspar the friendly ghost the friendliest ghost you know
i forget the rest
Take a St. Benedict jubilee medal or cross, have it blessed by a Benedictine priest, which is a special blessing that contains a minor exorcism, since Benedict was, well, bedevilled by demons from time to time.
I wouldn’t count on seeing any actual ghosts, since you say this tour is “marketed” and you paid for it, it is obviously a scam, but hey, it’s your money.
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kage_ar
Guest
My advice is to take the money, have dinner at Sambuca Jazz Cafe - the zebra pasta is to die for, the music is haunting (I’ve spent a bit of time in Houston…)
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gprescott
Guest
If anyone would have asked me a couple years ago if I believed in ghosts…I probably would have said maybe…its probably quite possible, given the amount of people who claim to have seen, heard, etc…the Catholic Church DOES agree that they exist! Who, What are they, that is something I think we will never answer…I already answered something in a similar thread under misc…exorcism…
I doubt you will see a real ghost given the circumstances…and there is quite a difference between searching them out and falling into a circumstance where they reside!
Regards,
Gwen
I doubt you will see a real ghost given the circumstances…and there is quite a difference between searching them out and falling into a circumstance where they reside!
Regards,
Gwen
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TarAshly
Guest
I appreciate everyones responses and advise. i didnt mean to start such a nasty debate, however this is a Catholic and Christian forum so please guys be nice to each other. BlessedBe i have to ask and please dont take it personally because im only curious. are you a wiccan? if so welcome to this site and i hope this helps bring you to God, please dont judge our faith by the few torch bearers we have in this forum, there are some really nice and kind people here, i my self am new to catholocism but if you have any questions i would be more than happy to help you. PM or post anything you have. im not as “Bible Beating” as some are in this forum i wont attack you with scripture and doctrine, but i love the Catholic faith because of its beauty and tradition and reverence it has for God. i tend to stay away from the “we’re all going to hell and theres no excuses or forgiveness for it” aspect or what some call the Catholic Guilt. anway to everyone else who posted thanks for the prayers and the advice, i am going on my trip and truly looking forward to it! and TOVES thanks for the insight, i think im going to go into this with a whole new understanding to explore thanks again all and PLEASE stop calling each other names and be kind.
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TarAshly
Guest
thanks for the advice but i think im gonna stick to this trip. its a hobby of mine and i actually have a chance to physically go and ghost hunt. i cant pass this opportunity up. and besides my Fiance put a lot of thought into this present for me and i can turn it down. hes excited to. we’re both Catholics with strong faith, so we’re not worried, just excited! by the way i miss posted we’re going on SUNDAY halloween night, not saturday.
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Michael_C
Guest
There are definately ghosts there and you’re gauranteed to see them everytime!!
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BlessedBe13
Guest
How does that prove your point if I don’t consider what the Church teaches to be absolute, infallible truth. All it proves is that’s what you believe and that not everyone in the world agrees. The Church is also led by men - who can say whatever they’d like.
I’m afraid not - sorry.
A little contradictory?
Not necessarily. Not every occurence of spirits is something “out to get you”
Quite true. However, that is something scientifically proven. The supernatural, God, etc. is not.
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BlessedBe13
Guest
I grew up Catholic, but yes, I am currently Wiccan. No offense taken.
Thank you for your welcome.
I appreciate your kindness and your offer. I have received my fair share of unkind comments here, but there are also several kinder people, so I plan on sticking around for a while.Have fun on the ghost hunt. Wish I could go.
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Minerva
Guest
I’m confused as to why you’d want to go on the ghost tour when you’re asking if there are any prayers you can pray for “protection” beforehand. If you worry there is danger involved, why go? If you think it’s just for fun, then why ask for prayers?
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TarAshly
Guest
the prayer is for “just in case” i dont know what to expect so i want to be protected. i also pray to saint Christopher before i drive any long distance, same difference, same purpose. i want to go because its gonna be fun and something different.
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