Going to hell for leaving the Catholic church

[eucharisteo]

You don’t really answer Triune’s question, eucharisteo. He’s asking how and why the Bible is inadequate to be God’s Word and how the Church is God’s Word? He didn’t ask about authority or binding/loosing, he’s asking about the Word, as did I. You’re getting really upset and emotional in your argument, especially in the first few sentences. The Bible and Dime store?

The Early Fathers referred to Scripture as God’s Word right and left. For goodness sakes John opens with “in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God” and Scripture contains the Gospels, the “Good News.” Authority aside, how is the NT not enough Word? How is it lacking? I think that was the original question…

I guess you both don’t get it. I’m not entering into dialogue with him/her or you. I should have kept my mouth shut. I believe that both of you have been on her long enough to know what the Catholic Church teaches and therefore I believe that both of your questions are insincere. I was just blabbering and didn’t expect someone to pick apart every statement I made. I’ve a convert,revert. I’ve studies the bible for over 34 years. I don’t need someone to tell me what the bible says either. But I do find that the Catholic Church’s interpretation of scripture to be the only one that actually fits like a glove. Sacred Tradition is not written down, yet it is what Jesus passed down through the Apostolic lineage. It is just as sacred at sacred scripture. What I’ve learned is that Protestants are in denial that their own churches have there own version of sacred tradition that is actually short of truth or completely just out right wrong…heresy. And with that I do not mean to offend I’m just spelling it out in black and white as to what I believe now as a bible only Christian that converted to fullness of truth 3 years ago.

Now back to the topic: **Going to hell for leaving the Catholic church

I do not believe that you or TU are headed for hell unless you rejected the Catholic Church’s teachings based on full knowledge of the truth. So lets stick to the topic and I apologize for entering my initial comment “unfortunately the bible is not the complete word of God”. But I do believe with this post I have clearly answered that. Everything else is a red herring.
**

 

[Darron_Steele]

I was raised Catholic, am now in my early 20’s, and have recently made the decision to leave the Catholic church. I was curious about what the Catholic church itself would say about me leaving, and according to the Catechism, someone who has full knowledge of the church’s mission, beliefs etc, and then leaves the Catholic church, will not achieve salvation. It sounds like I’m going to hell.

This seems kind of weird. I suppose I can understand how the Catholic church got so big if it has a “you go to hell if you leave” clause in the Catechism.

Thoughts?

I have not read any posts beyond the first few, but I wanted to answer you directly.

I am not Catholic, and I may be wrong, but I doubt the Catholic church would officially teach you are necessarily going to Hell.

From Catechism of the Catholic Church 846

Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

If I understand it right, in essence, you must be non-Catholic despite full `knowledge’ that you should be Catholic. If you leave the Catholic church in part because you do not think you have an obligation to be part of it, this would not apply to you.

I think cases of people who leave the Catholic Church while believing they have an obligation to be part of it are an extreme rarity. Most people who are absolutely convinced they ought to `go to church’ in a certain group do it.

If you `know for a fact’ you have an obligation to be Catholic, but you are leaving anyway, I think the Catholic church would teach that you are not necessarily unsaved.

Otherwise, if you think it is not necessary to be Catholic to be a Christian, I think the general idea would be that you do so not “knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God” and not meeting the above criteria.

 

[crazzeto]

***i frankly believe its difficult for anyone to love God with all his heart if he does not spend time (frequently) away from ALL humnas… except maybe children under the age… .say 9

humans are conduits of satan… whether intentionally or not…

just a fact of life… When i get away from everything/everyone… i see how far from God … uh… parts of me are… as it were…

gotta go…

God bless… ***

Sounds dangerously close to the old Gnostic Heresy…

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

From Catechism of the Catholic Church 846

If I understand it right, in essence, you must be non-Catholic despite full `knowledge’ that you should be Catholic. If you leave the Catholic church in part because you do not think you have an obligation to be part of it, this would not apply to you.

Another person who sees the quote as I do. And I see you had not read the rest of the posts and therefore were not influenced by any of my posting.

God bless

 

[Monica4316]

I was raised Catholic, am now in my early 20’s, and have recently made the decision to leave the Catholic church. I was curious about what the Catholic church itself would say about me leaving, and according to the Catechism, someone who has full knowledge of the church’s mission, beliefs etc, and then leaves the Catholic church, will not achieve salvation. It sounds like I’m going to hell.

This seems kind of weird. I suppose I can understand how the Catholic church got so big if it has a “you go to hell if you leave” clause in the Catechism.

Thoughts?

the reason the Church says this is because Christ only started one Church, and HIs graces come to us through the Church. Even non Catholics who receive grace, still get it in relation to the Church.

If you leave, you’ll miss out on the Sacraments and on an incredible amount of graces, which will make your salvation much more difficult to achieve. Also if you know Church teachings are true and you reject them, that’s a sin.

If I may ask, why are you leaving? are you completely certain you don’t have any misunderstandings about the Church? maybe it would help to do more research and prayer?

God bless.

 

[eucharisteo]

Originally Posted by distracted

THAT IS SCARY.

 

[Catholicnow]

What I should have included is that there is nothing the Church teases that is contrary to scripture… I haven’t found it. .

You haven’t looked hard enough

 

[eucharisteo]

You haven’t looked hard enough

I believe you need to listen to a couple of Scott Hahn CD’s and other who say exactly what I say. Sacred Tradition does not go against scripture, it can’t. What you think contradicts may simply be disciplines. I"ve been studying scripture since I was 14 and not only on my own but in college as well. I didn’t mean that to sound pompous because every time I go to the scriptures I find something else that builds upon my faith. But none of it goes against Church teaching. Sorry for the previous misspelling.

 

[Catholicnow]

I believe you need to listen to a couple of Scott Hahn CD’s and other who say exactly what I say. Sacred Tradition does not go against scripture, it can’t. What you think contradicts may simply be disciplines. I"ve been studying scripture since I was 14 and not only on my own but in college as well. I didn’t mean that to sound pompous because every time I go to the scriptures I find something else that builds upon my faith. But none of it goes against Church teaching. Sorry for the previous misspelling.

Hmm, Mary doctrines go completely against Scripture, Purgatory goes against Scripture, Popes infallibility and complete authority go against Scripture there’s some for you to digest.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Hmm, Mary doctrines go completely against Scripture, Purgatory goes against Scripture, Popes infallibility and complete authority go against Scripture there’s some for you to digest.

All different threads which have been covered in great detail.

God bless

 

[Rv_Cain_Spencer]

You will not go to hell for leaving the Church.

 

[eucharisteo]

Hmm, Mary doctrines go completely against Scripture, Purgatory goes against Scripture, Popes infallibility and complete authority go against Scripture there’s some for you to digest.

Your obviously not a bible scholar. In fact you’re absolutely incorrect and the ones I can easily dispute are the last 2…peace of cake. The first one is not so plain as day. BUT you have to have hung on to sacred tradition to get it when you read it.

 

[CMatt25]

Because that makes absolutely no sense?

And again I ask where are these people who believe that “Christ made the Church necessary” and yet actively avoid communion with it?.

I finally understood what poster Roman Catholic meant. He or she says all of this only applies if you STILL believe and don’t remain. But I agree it’s hard to make sense out it and why then such statements are even in the catechism. Because I agree who would still fully believe and not remain?

 

[CMatt25]

Another person who sees the quote as I do. And I see you had not read the rest of the posts and therefore were not influenced by any of my posting.

God bless

While I now understand how you see it, if it only applies to people who believe or still believe, why even have it? How many would believe or still believe and not enter or not remain?

 

[MrZetterlund]

Hey, if you leave the Catholic church then pleeeeeeeeez keep Jesus. A relationship with Him isn’t doctrines and religious acustoms. If you’re seeking more then go do more. It could be that Jesus wants more out of you then just sitting at a local church. Plz don’t leave Jesus. Promise Me? pretty plz??

 

[Answersplease]

…headed for hell unless you rejected the Catholic Church’s teachings based on full knowledge of the truth.

"Answersplease:

I was thinking about defending you (since you were right) until you said the above statement.

Who would actually leave when the had full knowledge of the truth?

Who would send themselves to hell on purpose?

The FACT is, The Holy Bible says that the “ignorant” and “unstable” people “distort” scripture “to their own destruction” 2 Peter 3:16.

Do the people mentioned in 2 Peter 3:16 have FULL understanding of the truth?

I don’t think they do, yet it seems they are going to hell anyway.

Why? Because people with “invincible ignorance” have a duty to seek and understand The Truth to the best of their ability. Lazy, stubborn, and/or selfish people who shirk/refuse that duty will probably NOT be protected under “invincible ignorance”.

2 Peter 3:16

He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Sure, the Catholic Church NEVER infallibly declares that someone has gone or is going to hell. That is probably because nobody can read another person’s mind or heart.
Or some people might change their mind or heart at the very last second.

So it’s true that nobody except God can say for sure who will go to hell, or who is already in hell.

"Answersplease:

You were actually correct when you said the following.

…“unfortunately the bible is not the complete word of God”.

There is biblical evidence that supports that.

You should’nt have reversed your position, but I understand it is tough when two or more posters pile up against you.

 

[Catholicnow]

Your obviously not a bible scholar. In fact you’re absolutely incorrect and the ones I can easily dispute are the last 2…peace of cake. The first one is not so plain as day. BUT you have to have hung on to sacred tradition to get it when you read it.

Another not in Scripture Sacred Tradition

 

[eucharisteo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eucharisteo forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*
…headed for hell unless you rejected the Catholic Church’s teachings based on full knowledge of the truth.*

 Quote:
                                                                  Originally Posted by **Answersplease**                                      
             *

I was thinking about defending you (since you were right) until you said the above statement.

Who would actually leave when the had full* knowledge of the truth?

Who would send themselves to hell on purpose?

The FACT is, The Holy Bible says that the “ignorant” and “unstable” people “distort” scripture “to their own destruction” 2 Peter 3:16.

Do the people mentioned in 2 Peter 3:16 have FULL understanding of the truth?

I don’t think they do, yet it seems they are going to hell anyway.

Why? Because people with “invincible ignorance” have a duty to seek and understand The Truth to the best of their ability. Lazy, stubborn, and/or selfish people who shirk/refuse that duty will probably NOT be protected under “invincible ignorance”.

 Quote:
                                             2 Peter 3:16

He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Answersplease forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*
Sure, the Catholic Church NEVER infallibly declares that someone has gone or is going to hell. That is probably because nobody can read another person’s mind or heart.
Or some people might change their mind or heart at the very last second.

So it’s true that nobody except God can say for sure who will go to hell, or who is already in hell.
*

I think you are missreading what I wrote and what and what I meant. Reread it. The statement is very controversial I know, but the Church has always taught this. It does not mean absolutely with full knowledge that you are going to hell. It means the if you know the truth and reject it [my belief is that the Catholic Church is the fullness of truth] the, yes, you would go to hell. When we were members of the “Church of Christ” they taught that anyone that heard or read the “word of God” is going to hell if they did not do as they said. The spoke in absolutes. The Church speaks clearly on this matter and the teaching is the same. If you know, and fully know and still reject that is the same as rejecting Christ. I’m not sure why you wouldn’t understand this teaching. Sure, my words may not be perfect, but I never claimed to be perfect or in full knowledge of absolutely everything. Many Catholics and our Protestants brothers and sisters do in fact speak in absolutes. You see I embrace the Divine Mercy of God. We pray that all people will be saved and hope that they are not culpable for their misguided ways. We ALL sin and we ALL sin profanely against God. But there are some sins that cut us off from God. But a serious sin has 3 elements that must be met before it is considered moral, condemning, cutting us off from God.

1. The offense must be grave matter.
2. The offender must fully know that it is a grave sin.
3. The offender must not have been coerced against his or her will. Or stated differently he/she must have willfully done it.

Sorry if that doesn’t make sense to you. Sometimes the words I choose are not the best.

 

[eucharisteo]

Quote:Originally Posted by Answersplease

You were actually correct when you said the following.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eucharisteo forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
…“unfortunately the bible is not the complete word of God”.

There is biblical evidence that supports that.

You should’nt have reversed your position, but I understand it is tough when two or more posters pile up against you.

I know that was correct, but in order to attempt to reach the person I was speaking to I was also trying to show that all evidence of Sacred Tradition is actually contained in the sciptures, not that all the information is contained in it. Again, poor choice of words. If you speak to some of the bible scholars, converts from Protestantism, they’ll tell you something similar…up to a point. But you see the reason I believe I’m correct is because the scriptures also talk about the “sacred” traditions, which are binding. Read Mathew 23, about the “seat of Moses”. There are many passages that outside of the teachings of the Church of Christ, Catholic, that are unclear to the avid reader. But once you have been exposed to it then it only begins to really makes sense and more sense than the other. If you read anything about my conversion experience you’d see what I’m talking about. I used to be a bible only Christian. It was studying scripture that brought me to the truth. I know I don’t know everything and far from it. But now that I know without a doubt which church is which and why I know that I must be either Catholic or Orthodox. The only thing I have issues with at times is just how far does the primacy of the Bishop of Rome have authority over the entire Church. But I do believe there is some at minimum. I also firmly hold to the belief that the Bishop of Rome in communion with all the bishops is infallible, structurally based. And since I am of the Latin rite I am under their hierarchical rule of law. If I were Orthodox it would be the same and the only issue they really seem to have is just how much primacy the Bishop of Rome actually possesses. Of course its much more complex than this. That was my breaking point with the Orthodox Church. I believe it was pride that caused them to break from the Catholic Church. They argue the opposite, but I believe now that the historical truth of the matter is in the hands of the Catholic Church with the bishop of Rome that holds primacy or the first of many. Too much to get into and not part of this thread.

 

[eucharisteo]

Another not in Scripture Sacred Tradition

That is true because you not knowing scripture is not actually in the bible. So I have to concede to you on this.