Going to hell for leaving the Catholic church

[steve_b]

I was raised Catholic, am now in my early 20’s, and have recently made the decision to leave the Catholic church. I was curious about what the Catholic church itself would say about me leaving, and according to the Catechism, someone who has full knowledge of the church’s mission, beliefs etc, and then leaves the Catholic church, will not achieve salvation. It sounds like I’m going to hell.

This seems kind of weird. I suppose I can understand how the Catholic church got so big if it has a “you go to hell if you leave” clause in the Catechism.

Thoughts?

I’m not sure you’re still around. I’ve looked over the responses so far and I don’t think one of your points was answered.

:

It sounds like I’m going to hell. This seems kind of weird. I suppose I can understand how the Catholic church got so big if it has a “you go to hell if you leave” clause in the Catechism

Did you know the warning against leaving the Church and the consequences for leaving the Church comes from scripture? It’s not used as a scare tactic by the Church to grow membership, or keep people in the seats. Where is this warning and consequence in scripture?

Here’s what Paul says about dividing from the Church in the first century

He doesn’t give wiggle room at all.

Watch out for those who cause division, they don’t serve our Lord but their own selfish appetites. Division is evil, and I want you to be innocent of this. [Rm 16:17-18]

The acts of the sinful nature are these, … division, dissent…I warn you as I have done before, those who live like this won’t inherit the kingdom of heaven. [Gal 5:19:17…]

Is there any doubt where Paul says THAT person will go when they die who divides and stays divided? Any sin that keeps you from inheriting heaven by definition is a mortal sin. The Church teaches the same because that’s what she was taught directly by Paul in the 1st quote. Paul is writing to the Church of Rome. Does Paul’s warning apply for all times? Absolutely.

Therefore, If one doesn’t remain in the Catholic Church, or if one knows the truth and won’t enter the Catholic Church before they die, Paul says they won’t inherit heaven when they die. Another way of saying this is, outside the Church there is no salvation.

Re: ignorance
The Catholic Church as you know, makes allowances for personal ignorance. But a person can’t fake ignorance. They can’t ignore being educated. If they try to use ignorance as an excuse in that case, it may not work. the CCC says
**1791 **ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.” In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

 

[CMatt25]

We have discussed the quote you are referring to. Though I do not see it pertaining to you (in fact the poster who originally posted the quote understood what I was saying) you are convinced that it is referring to you. So be it, I will not be able to convince you otherwise.

Hi RC, I think you might be referring to me. I do indeed fully understand your interpretation of the quote as only applying to people who believe or still believe with full knowledge all the CC teaches about itself but then who do not enter or remain.

But dzheremi is correct in that I don’t understand why we even need such a statement in the first place. Because as more than one of us has asked, who is truly going to believe all and not enter or remain?

I also see no consensus on the statement by Catholics here. Unless I am reading some others incorrectly, there are others who seem to say it’s fried to a crisp if you were once a fully knowledgable believing Catholic and then later had a change in beliefs. I know you don’t fry 'em and I commend you greatly for that reasoning. But still some seem to.

You are correct that some might care because in the back of their minds they might still wonder what if the CC is true. But I also think some might just care simply in the discourse we have on religion, because they want to understand how some Catholics can pronounce the judgement of hell onto others when we are told by Christ not to judge another’s salvation. It’s just part of the normal discussion. Just as Catholics question or try to learn something about another faith group.

God bless you.

 

[dzheremi]

IDK dz you seemed, to me, to take it rather personal. If you go back and read your posts. I think it is more than the argumentation that concerned you. But oh well I must have been wrong:shrug:

Like I said in my first post in this thread, I can sympathize with what the OP is going through. As to the quote, I would think it applies to anyone who deliberately leaves the Church, but as you have shown, that is not the only interpretation of it.

Actually it wasn’t my reading of the quote, it was the quote itself. It was you who had to read into the quote to make it fit your interpretation (that it meant others than what it had said).

I was not the only one who had trouble making sense of it.

Whether or not you believe the distinction is useful or not, the distinction was made nonetheless. But as I already granted that I wasn’t going to be able to convince you that the quote was not saying what you wanted to I do not wish to continue that dialogue.

Not a problem.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

But dzheremi is correct in that I don’t understand why we even need such a statement in the first place. Because as more than one of us has asked, who is truly going to believe all and not enter or remain?

It is rare I am sure, but that is who the quote was referring to. Lets say though that we don’t need such as statement. Then just dismiss it. Consider a ridiculous statement that only applies to a very few rebellious individuals. Don’t, however, use it as proof that the Church condemns ALL those who leave the Church. There may very well be a statement out there from the CC in those regards (IDK?) but it is not that quote. I think that is a fair middle ground for us

I also see no consensus on the statement by Catholics here. Unless I am reading some others incorrectly, there are others who seem to say it’s fried to a crisp if you were once a fully knowledgable believing Catholic and then later had a change in beliefs. I know you don’t fry 'em and I commend you greatly for that reasoning. But still some seem to.

What does the quote say though? I am not sure what the Catholic Church’s stance is on those who leave the CC. I know how I, without knowing what the church teaches on it, feels about the matter and what the quote you offered said. Those other Catholics may or may not be correct as far as what the Church teaches ( I have been corrected often here, I am a convert and always open to correction.) but as far as the specific quote, well I do not believe I am reading it incorrectly.

One would also have to take into account what the Catholic Church teaches about what the ‘Church’ is and therefore what it means to ‘leave or refuse to remain in’ and what that would entail. That in itself has a lot of misconceptions. Misconceptions for a different thread though.

God bless

 

[CMatt25]

. Don’t, however, use it as proof that the Church condemns ALL those who leave the Church. There may very well be a statement out there from the CC in those regards (IDK?)

What does the quote say though? I am not sure what the Catholic Church’s stance is on those who leave the CC. I know how I, without knowing what the church teaches on it, feels about the matter and what the quote you offered said. Those other Catholics may or may not be correct as far as what the Church teaches ( I have been corrected often here, I am a convert and always open to correction.) but as far as the specific quote, well I do not believe I am reading it incorrectly.

God bless

Well I truly wish someone would produce such a statement then if there is one and settle for us the Church’s position. There seems to be some Catholics saying unequvocably such people will be fried and others not willing to go there. Thanks for all your help. God bless and peace.

 

[KC91]

Most Catholics who leave the Catholic Church leave because they have come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is not the church Christ started as described in the New Testament. They leave because they believe that the Catholic Church teaches doctrines that are not supported by scripture (for example purgatory, indulgences, transubstantiation, perpetual virginity of Mary, assumption of Mary. etc.). Do you honestly believe these sincere followers of Christ, who are no longer Catholic, are destined for hell because they left the Catholic Church?

It depends on whether those who leave fall for Protestant propaganda like the quote above despite knowing the Catholic arguments (the truth) against them.

Well, for one thing I am pretty sure Martin Luther is in hell.

The most important conclusion to draw from all this is heaven is a difficult place to enter, hell quite easily.

So the Lutheran friends I have in CAF who are former Catholics as well as the Anglicans who are former Catholics, etc. are all going to fry? Do you think fear is a stronger force than love and preaching the truth in love, as we are called to do? Shouldn’t an individual want to be Catholic because of the beauties they perceive in the teachings, the sacraments, authority, and growing in faith, not merely fear of hell?
Anyone else on your hell list?

Again, it depends on whether they know of those Catholic arguments (truths) reputing Protestant propaganda.

As for motivation, that is not important as long as the Catholic practices his faith, avoids mortal sin and receives the sacraments.

Other people on the hell list other than apostates are those who persecute the Church and Catholics, engage in anti-Catholicism, die in a state of mortal sin and those who belong to Satanic groups and ideologies.

 

[dzheremi]

And if they know the Catholic arguments and ultimately find them unconvincing, what then?

 

[KC91]

Then they’d had their chance, so I wouldn’t be optimistic about where they are going after they pass away, to put it lightly.

 

[earlysummer84]

why we have to leave our relief. It bring peace for our soul.

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Watch A Letters to Juliet Movie Online Free

 

[Answersplease]

Answersplease:

Lets get this straight once and for all.

There is ONLY ONE BODY OF CHRIST, period.

The Catholic Church believes that EVERY PROPERLY BAPTIZED person is a MEMBER OF THE BODY OF CHRIST, who are called Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Non-Denominational, whatever…if they are properly baptized then they are a member of The Body of Christ).

Some of those Christians have gained MORE TRUTH than other Christians, and have been “confirmed” AS WELL AS BAPTIZED.

The Truth is Jesus Christ, by rejecting The Truth, you reject Jesus Christ.
That will put you in a precarious salvation position.

---

Now lets ask WHY WOULD PEOPLE REJECT TRUTH after they had FULL UNDERSTANDING of The Truth?

To answer the above question, you would need to answer why people commit SIN when they KNOW full well that commiting that sin is going to send them to hell.

How many of you still commit SIN even when you KNOW the TRUTH?

---

Now I have to say that, YOU PROBABLY CAN SEND YOURSELF TO HELL EVEN IF YOU DON’T have FULL UNDERSTANDING OF THE TRUTH.

The FACT is, The Holy Bible says that the “ignorant” and “unstable” people “distort” scripture “to their own destruction” 2 Peter 3:16.

Do the people mentioned in 2 Peter 3:16 have FULL understanding of the truth?

I don’t think the “ignorant” and “unstable” in 2 Peter 3:16 have FULL understanding of the truth, yet it seems they might go to hell anyway.

Why?
Because people with “invincible ignorance” have a duty to seek and understand The Truth to the best of their ability. Lazy, stubborn, and/or selfish people who shirk/refuse that duty will probably NOT be protected under “invincible ignorance”.

2 Peter 3:16

He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[Cinette]

Well, if by “fully catechized” you mean “brainwashed to believe that there is only one true religion”, then yes I was. 12 years of Catholic school. I think your response about me not being fully catechized truly shows how people of the Catholic faith try to invalidate the opinions of others through semantics.

I spent 12 years in Catholic boarding school and believe I was not fully catechised. I loved the nuns and I am grateful to them for many things… I left for 27 years and now that I am back I am learning so much. Before you leave Redman take a thorough look at the Church and the Sacraments.

Jesus founded His Church and sent the Holy Spirit to guide it into all truth. Throughout the ages there have been battles against heresies and then the so-called Reformation when Luther broke away and what did one see? The splintering of the Protestant churches into over 45 000 denominations teaching different “truths”. Now seriously, are you saying that all the Churches are teaching the truth? There can only be one - which one?

I believe Jesus kept his promise to be with us always and that the Holy Spirit does guide the Church.

God bless
Cinette

 

[Answersplease]

Answersplease:

There is ONLY ONE BODY OF CHRIST, period.

The Catholic Church believes that EVERY PROPERLY BAPTIZED person is a MEMBER OF THE BODY OF CHRIST, who are called Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Non-Denominational, whatever…if they are properly baptized then they are a member of The Body of Christ).

Some of those Christians have gained MORE TRUTH than other Christians, and have been “confirmed” AS WELL AS BAPTIZED.

The Truth is Jesus Christ, by rejecting The Truth, you reject Jesus Christ.
That will put you in a “precarious” salvation position.
I say “precarious” because ONLY GOD can say for sure who will go to hell or who is already in hell.
I use the word “precarious” to mean uncertain or unstable.

---

Now lets ask WHY WOULD PEOPLE REJECT TRUTH after they had FULL UNDERSTANDING of The Truth?

To answer the above question, you would need to answer why people commit SIN when they KNOW full well that commiting that sin is going to send them to hell.

How many of you still commit SIN even when you KNOW the TRUTH?

---

Now I have to say that, YOU PROBABLY CAN SEND YOURSELF TO HELL EVEN IF YOU DON’T have FULL UNDERSTANDING OF THE TRUTH.

The FACT is, The Holy Bible says that the “ignorant” and “unstable” people “distort” scripture “to their own destruction” 2 Peter 3:16.

Do the people mentioned in 2 Peter 3:16 have FULL understanding of the truth?

I don’t think the “ignorant” and “unstable” in 2 Peter 3:16 have FULL understanding of the truth, yet it seems they might go to hell anyway.

Why?
Because people with “invincible ignorance” have a duty to seek and understand The Truth to the best of their ability. Lazy, stubborn, and/or selfish people who shirk/refuse that duty will probably NOT be protected under “invincible ignorance”.

2 Peter 3:16

He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[Cinette]

Do not fear Hell. Fear God.

If you truly wish to be united to the truth, then I trust that God in his mercy will lead you back again to the Catholic faith.

I point you to the book of Romans, chapter 2:
…

I am not saying, “All that you have to do not to go to Hell is be a good person”. Far from it. I am merely saying that the Apostle Paul implied that those who did not hear the Gospel could still be saved by obedience to it. If, for some miraculous reason, you obey the Gospel having separated yourself from the Church and the Sacraments due to invincible ignorance, you may enter into His Kingdom.

I will pray for you. I exhort you, reconsider the matter, but do not fail to follow your conscience either.

*It helps if that conscience is a WELL FORMED CONSCIENCE!

*

 

[Cinette]

If the Catholic brother desires to leave to search for answers that the Church where he is cannot give him then I believe he should be able to. Now my Catholic brother who desires to leave I will say this not to you but to the others. ( I am not comparing you to the prodigal son but only using the story to teach others on letting others go ). The story of the Prodigal son was willing to go and the father permitted him. This is how the father will win him back. Probably the reason for his leaving came from an elder brother who when he did return back complained so we see there was not much a great relationship between the two to start off with. Had their relationship been the same as the father had with his younger son the younger son probably will not of left. But the father did was required for him to do. He loved his son by letting him go. The elder brother became more obstinate and more complaining which was brought more to the open when his younger brother returned home. I wish we can all love like the father but we need to learn as well because that is how God loves us. The story of an excellent Roman Catholic priest comes to my mind, Father John Corapi. Here is a man who left the Church at a young age and through his many experiences some good but alot bad ( read his story there is a website under his name ) he came to know himself better and later on was ordained by the Late Holy Father John Paul II and is considered today the most qualified Catholic preacher for he has to his credit I believe 3 to 4 doctor degrees and has been given the gift of Apostolic Preaching. A remarkable man with a remarkable story. He always gives from his heart especially through his preaching. I wonder if he would had been the same man had he not left the Church. Read his story and find out yourself what I learn from him. This priest stills continues to amaze me and teach me what God can do. To my Catholic brother I wish you will find those answers you are searching for. I am Greek Orthodox who at a very young age developed a severe Bipolar condition. I could not find any answers in my Church until I went out and oddly enough found them in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has so many answers to the problem of suffering. However your quest may lead you elsewhere and may lead you to the Eastern Church. The Eastern Church do have answers to the many questions today. Not that the Catholic Church do not possess them but the Eastern Church does see at times from a different angle and can help us see better if we only take the time to inquire to this Church. Her Saints and Church Fathers and Mothers has helped build her just as the Catholic saints did for the Catholic Church. Try not to do big stuff like Fr.John Corapi and get into trouble. But read his story when you can. He can definitely explain the catholic faith better than anyone and just to let you know that when he came back to the Catholic Faith he purposely studied Eastern theology for the first 3 years. So Eastern theology can be a great help to understand better the Catholic Faith. ( though for me it was the Catholic faith that gave me answers to my own problem of suffering ). God Bless!

Good post - your observations about the Prodigal Son are interesting. Have you read "The Return of the Prodigal Son by Henri Nauwan?

 

[Reuben_J]

I spent 12 years in Catholic boarding school and believe I was not fully catechised. I loved the nuns and I am grateful to them for many things… I left for 27 years and now that I am back I am learning so much. Before you leave Redman take a thorough look at the Church and the Sacraments.

Jesus founded His Church and sent the Holy Spirit to guide it into all truth. Throughout the ages there have been battles against heresies and then the so-called Reformation when Luther broke away and what did one see? ** The splintering of the Protestant churches into over 45 000 denominations** teaching different “truths”. Now seriously, are you saying that all the Churches are teaching the truth? There can only be one - which one?

I believe Jesus kept his promise to be with us always and that the Holy Spirit does guide the Church.

God bless
Cinette

The last count which was only a while back, it was 35,271. At the rate the number has proliferated to such staggering quantum that you quoted, it would be really hard to keep track of how many they are.

 

[chypmonk]

I find it odd that the original poster has not commented since post #10

Why is that? It isn’t clear what his objection are/were. Is there any particular teaching other than leaving the Cath.Church motivating him?

I can understand the challenge of staying Catholic in a Church that seems to scandalize way to often. But I liked what Puzzleannie on post #14.

I would only add that we have no right to heaven. All would go to hell if Jesus hadn’t come to save us. He is our life line in a sea that wants to swallow us up.

Without Christ it is similar to the last scene in the movie a “Perfect Storm” when the man swims to the surface and without help he is doomed. So we are without Christ and to reject the Church is to reject Christ.

 

[ralphy]

I find it odd that the original poster has not commented since post #10

Why is that? It isn’t clear what his objection are/were. Is there any particular teaching other than leaving the Cath.Church motivating him?

I can understand the challenge of staying Catholic in a Church that seems to scandalize way to often. But I liked what Puzzleannie on post #14.

I would only add that we have no right to heaven. All would go to hell if Jesus hadn’t come to save us. He is our life line in a sea that wants to swallow us up.

Without Christ it is similar to the last scene in the movie a “Perfect Storm” when the man swims to the surface and without help he is doomed. So we are without Christ and to reject the Church is to reject Christ.

I believe you are a little mixed up with this last statement. If you reject Christ, you are not in His church, as those who come to Him and receive Him as their Savior are part of the “Body of Christ”, which is his church. The RCC cannot save you, only the Blood of Christ can do that. In Christian love, Ralph.

 

[KC91]

I don’t see the point of seperating the two, one has to accept Christ as their saviour in order to be a Roman Catholic.

 

[Cinette]

The last count which was only a while back, it was 35,271. At the rate the number has proliferated to such staggering quantum that you quoted, it would be really hard to keep track of how many they are.

I got those figures from an article. About 4 years ago I heard it was 40 000 in the US alone on EWTN. Imagine if one were to get the figures of denominations throughout the world!!

 

[ralphy]

I don’t see the point of seperating the two, one has to accept Christ as their saviour in order to be a Roman Catholic.

Could you tell me how you accepted the savior into your life please, and when did this happen. Thanks, in Christian love, Ralph