Going to hell for leaving the Catholic church

[Stylites]

So this belief of going to hell, or if its theoretical, or what ever the explanation.
Where in the bible does it says that if one leaves the church (catholic or another) will be in danger.
I tend to see that what a mortal man (who is born a sinner) says does not have very much validity unless that view or comment is backed by biblical scripture! If this is not done then it cannot be the view of God but of man!
Me personally i am very afraid and have supreme respect on what it says in the bible…So as far as i see unless one can back the statement from the bible then any belief that does not exist or is endorsed by the bible which IS THE WORD of GOD that it has no validity…

And the conundrum for sola scriptura adherents is that the Catholic Church through the Holy Spirit wrote and assembled the canon of the New Testament, and alone has the authority to correctly interpret it.

.

 

[Cinette]

Does it matter then what one believes so long as they confess with their mouth that Christ is Lord? If I confess with my mouth that Christ is Lord yet I believe that the Catholic Church is Christ’s Church, does it matter? If I confess with my mouth that Christ is Lord does it matter if I believe in the, “sacramental system” as established by Christ? If I confess with my mouth that Christ is Lord does it matter if I believe in Papal infallibility?

God bless

*Catholics believe that Jesus is Lord. If you believe in what Jesus said to Peter and the promise he made that he will be with us always then it follows that you should believe in Papal infallibility!

*

 

[Cinette]

Hi Priscilla Ann; Do you pretend to know everything the Catholic Church teaches? I know I don’t and I have been Catholic all my life. I do know that if one can know everything the Catholic church teaches and then leaves or protests her teachings or reject them. Then this person is definitely going to “Hell”.

Why? glad you asked? You know God promised us a Kingdom? but all we got was the Catholic church since pentecost going on 2000 years. The Apostles taught and the scriptures teach that the Church is the body of Christ. The bible teaches that the Catholic (universal) Church is fully divine and fully human.

But most importantly the bible specifically teaches that the Catholic church is the Pillar and foundation of “TRUTH” (see 1Timothy 3:15) . Now we know no one can have Truth without the true presence of Jesus body, blood soul and divinity.

So if the Catholic church is the body of Christ, fully human and fully divine and is the Pillar and foundation of “TRUTH” and the Catholic Church has practiced her faith from following Jesus commandament in regards to his True presence body,blood, soul and divinity in his Eucharist thereby possessing “TRUTH” which is the true presence of Jesus in the Catholic Church.

So now understanding these biblical Truth’s in regards to the Catholic church and one leaves the foundation and pillar of Truth, the body of Christ, the true presence of Jesus Christ and to depart from his fully human nature in the Church and his full divinity in the person of the Holy Spirit. Then one can definitely go to “Hell” for leaving the Catholic Church.

good news is, I have never come across anyone who learned everything the Catholic Church teaches and leave her. I have learned of many who think they know what the Catholic church is? and teaches and have walked away from the Catholic church misinformed or mistaken from her teachings. I don’t believe these are qualifed for “Hell”, due to ingnorance.

Peace be with you

p.s if you need all the scriptures to these biblical Truth’s as I have introduced them, please give notice:thumbsup:

*I don’t think it means you must know EVERYTHING and turn your back on EVERYTHING. The core teachings are what count and I think you mentioned a few…

Ciao
Cinette*

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Me personally i am very afraid and have supreme respect on what it says in the bible…So as far as i see unless one can back the statement from the bible then any belief that does not exist or is endorsed by the bible which IS THE WORD of GOD that it has no validity…

The Catholic Church is the only 2000 year old Christian body of believers that can trace her roots by unbroken succession directly to Peter and the Apostles. The Catholic Church is the body of Jesus Christ.

Luke 10:16
**Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me." **

Here is the hell scripture for rejecting or leaving the body of Jesus Christ his Catholic Church

John 15:4
**Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. **
5
**I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. **
6
4 **Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned. **

 

[steve_b]

No one is saved because of the church they belong to. One is saved because of Christ.

Romans 10:9-11:

That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, '"anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Trust in the Lord. He is sufficient!

God Bless!

Jesus is NOT Lord, if you confess all this then leave His Church.

 

[andrewv33]

And the conundrum for sola scriptura adherents is that the Catholic Church through the Holy Spirit wrote and assembled the canon of the New Testament, and alone has the authority to correctly interpret it.

.

I did not know that simple words needed interpretation, i guess if we were to talk on the chapter of revelation than i might understand. i guess by your answer then i really do not know what we are doing discussing biblical topics since we are not able to correctly interpret any part of the bible as per your statement. Understanding your point means that us average folk have no capacity to comprehend the bible. In essence God has given us a book that cannot be understood therefore i have wasted my time the past 15years.

I am sorry if i am direct.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I did not know that simple words needed interpretation, i guess if we were to talk on the chapter of revelation than i might understand. i guess by your answer then i really do not know what we are doing discussing biblical topics since we are not able to correctly interpret any part of the bible as per your statement. Understanding your point means that us average folk have no capacity to comprehend the bible. In essence God has given us a book that cannot be understood therefore i have wasted my time the past 15years.

I am sorry if i am direct.

The Catholic church has always taught that revelation ceased with the last living apostle John.

We are free to read the scriptures and interpret them for our personal inspiration and revelations from God personally. But we are never free to take our personal interpretations and teach them as biblical doctrine especially if they conflict with Catholic doctrine revealed in the scriptures.

Because revelation ceased with John, the Catholic Church possesses the full deposit of faith which consists of both Sacred (Apostolic) Tradition and Sacred Scriptures. The Catholic Church gave us the world the cannon of scripture, her teachings never conflict with the whole of scripture which includes both Old and New Testament books.

You have not wasted your time reading scriptures, the Church encourages us to read scriptures always with prayer. The Church is the Rock which never changes, and we can trust to compare our readings and personal interpretations to the Catholic Church’s 2000 year old teachings and be assured that they come from God in the Holy Spirit as long as personal interpretations do not conflict with the full deposit of the Apostolic Catholic Faith.

 

[andrewv33]

The Catholic Church is the only 2000 year old Christian body of believers that can trace her roots by unbroken succession directly to Peter and the Apostles. The Catholic Church is the body of Jesus Christ.

Luke 10:16
**Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me." **

Here is the hell scripture for rejecting or leaving the body of Jesus Christ his Catholic Church

John 15:4
**Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. **
5
**I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. **
6
4 **Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out **like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned.

I really appreciate the way in which you answered to me, you made your point and used scripture. I commend you.
BUT, i do not reject God or Christ. But what you quote in reference to the vine is Christ, again i do not deny Christ in any way, but i use the Bible as my personal guide when people talk on the subject of Theology. Hence i answer in direct biblical quotes that refer to what we speak of,

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Through the bible old and new testament the Bible seems to be consistent in all. It does not contradict. I am only says that i can only believe what is said in this book.

If you for example say to me that Christ flew, guess what i am going to do?
I will take out my KJV Bible and ask you where did you get that info from. If it is in there then i believe you if you tell me your great great great grand dad said it was so and it is not in the bible please tell me why should i believe you? This is my conundrum.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Please, like i said do not take me the wrong way, how can a person discern what is right and what is wrong? believe in man? or do we turn to the bible for guidance?

Ephesians 5:17 - Do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is. Does a just, loving, gracious God require what is impossible?

2 Timothy 2:15 - To be approved of God and not ashamed, we must handle rightly the word of God. How can one handle rightly a message he cannot understand?

Mark 7:14 - Jesus’ teachings were intended for the common people (multitudes), and He expected and commanded them all to understand His teachings.

Luke 8:11; Matthew 13:19-23 The seed of the gospel is the word of God. Those whom the Lord considers to be good and fruitful are those who understand the word. Those who do not understand are unacceptable.

So God requires and commands all people to understand, and we must understand to have His approval and to have faith. Yet how can God be just, loving, and gracious in these requirements, if in fact understanding is impossible?

Do you see the problem with what you are saying, it is contrary to biblical teaching, God through Christ gives us insight, do you agree?

 

[Cinette]

Jesus is NOT Lord, if you confess all this then leave His Church.

*You must still be in the cradle Steve! How on earth can you say such a thing that Jesus is NOT Lord? We have hymns about the Lord Jesus Christ - we have prayers to the Lord. If Jesus is not Lord then who is???

:tsktsk:
*

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

*I don’t think it means you must know EVERYTHING and turn your back on EVERYTHING. The core teachings are what count and I think you mentioned a few…

Ciao
Cinette*

If only the core teachings apply? Then what constitutes the core teachings? It goes without saying the believing person fully understands and has practiced them, then rejected them, thereby rejects Jesus Christ. On this note, I still have never come across any Christian who has fully understood the Apostolic Catholic “core” Teachings and left them for another gospel or man made theology. From ignorance I don’t believe they qualify “hell” although outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.

 

[andrewv33]

The Catholic church has always taught that revelation ceased with the last living apostle John.

We are free to read the scriptures and interpret them for our personal inspiration and revelations from God personally. But we are never free to take our personal interpretations and teach them as biblical doctrine especially if they conflict with Catholic doctrine revealed in the scriptures.

Because revelation ceased with John, the Catholic Church possesses the full deposit of faith which consists of both Sacred (Apostolic) Tradition and Sacred Scriptures. The Catholic Church gave us the world the cannon of scripture, her teachings never conflict with the whole of scripture which includes both Old and New Testament books.

You have not wasted your time reading scriptures, the Church encourages us to read scriptures always with prayer. The Church is the Rock which never changes, and we can trust to compare our readings and personal interpretations to the Catholic Church’s 2000 year old teachings and be assured that they come from God in the Holy Spirit as long as personal interpretations do not conflict with the full deposit of the Apostolic Catholic Faith.

Unfortunately humans are very fallible, we are sinners, do i need to remind you of the child abuse at the hand of some priests?
The crusades?
The inquisition? Some of the most amazing and diabolical torture devices originated from the church?
How about the changing of the biblical sabath saturday to sun-day? Even Rome cannot say it has biblical authority.
biblelight.net/st-cath.htm

please read the above internet link…

So the examples i gave are facts, how can you tell me that those actions are endorsed by the God that gave us the bible? To burn people to the stake for the sheer belief that the earth was round and not flat as it was then endorsed by Rome! Do you follow? No one on earth is perfect Satan has proved that through his deception (Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. ) Satan plays on our weakness, he is very good at twisting things.

I believe as per bible that we are mortal, and we as men and women sin, a church or country is made of men and women. As per what the bible says and not man, God judges us according to our works - Eze 24:14 I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD.

May God bless us all

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I really appreciate the way in which you answered to me, you made your point and used scripture. I commend you.

BUT, i do not reject God or Christ. But what you quote in reference to the vine is Christ, again i do not deny Christ in any way, but i use the Bible as my personal guide when people talk on the subject of Theology. Hence i answer in direct biblical quotes that refer to what we speak of,

Catholics do not disagree with the scriptures that you posted. What I am introducing is biblical, besides the Catholic Church was in existance for the first 400 years before the bible was canonized by the Catholic Church. So how did Christians come to believe in the Gosple of Jesus Christ? both Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture which is the full deposit of Christian faith, here is scripture;

John 21: 24 It is this disciple who testifies to these things and has written them, 25 There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.

2Thessalonians 2:13 But we ought to give thanks to God for you always, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits 7 for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in truth. 14** To this end he has (also) called you through our gospel to possess the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. **

2Thess.3:5 May the Lord direct your hearts to the love of God and to the endurance of Christ. 6 We instruct you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and** not according to the tradition they received from us.**

1Timothy 3:14 I am writing you about these matters, although I hope to visit you soon.
15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave **in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. **

1Corinthians11:1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. 2 ** I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.**

1Peter 1:23 You have been born anew, not from perishable but from imperishable seed, through the living and abiding word of God, 11 24 for: “All flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flower of the field; the grass withers, and the flower wilts; 25 **but the word of the Lord remains forever.” This is the word that has been proclaimed to you. **

2Peter 3: 15 And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, 16 **speaking of these things 12 as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures. 17 Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability. **

 

[steve_b]

None of this has anything to do with leaving the Catholic Church.

how is it you’re not connecting the dots? The Church of Rome who Paul wrote to IS the Catholic Church. The chair of Peter. It’s that way in the 1st century and it’s that way in the 21st century…
PA:

You have simply given the typical Catholic rhetoric. The Catholic Church is never mentioned in scripture; and in fact, you will not find a sacramental system or papal infallibility in scripture. In short, the Catholic Church does not resemble the New Testament Church. Apparently you have been well indoctrinated to believe otherwise.

Now THAT’s rhetorical nonsense. This is not the thread to have that discussion but if you’re interested you’ll get plenty of takers if you start your own thread on any of those topics of sacraments or papal infallibility etc etc…

The book of Romans is written to the same Church of Rome that is here today? The one you say you left. You quote Romans… right?

The scriptures we have are from the Catholic Church. Do you doubt the writers of the NT are inside the Church written to, by and for the Catholic Church.

1st century and apostolic bishop like Ignatius of Antioch, disciple of St John the apostle, writes where the bishop is, there is the Catholic Church. letter to Smyrna ~107 a.d.]

In the same series of letters to the Church in various locations, Ignatius writes, the Church of Rome holds the presidency. [Letter to the Romans ~107 a.d.]

BTW have you looked up “Catholic epistles”. They are NT books. If you don’t know them google them under Catholic Epistles.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Unfortunately humans are very fallible, we are sinners, do i need to remind you of the child abuse at the hand of some priests?

The crusades?
The inquisition? Some of the most amazing and diabolical torture devices originated from the church?
How about the changing of the biblical sabath saturday to sun-day? Even Rome cannot say it has biblical authority.
biblelight.net/st-cath.htm

Thank you for your position; When Jesus walked the earth Peter denied him 3 times, his dicsiples left him alone in his persecution, Judas left Jesus and betrayed him to his face. What you introduce here is not the Catholic Church instituted by Jesus Christ, but sinners in the body of Jesus Christ. Or to be clear, Catholic Christians who sinned, not the Church. Without bringing to lite your incorrect assertions by applying sins of men to what God has joined together in his CatholicChurch.

I only ask you, when you view this Catholic documented history which pulls no punches, to Judge what belongs to Ceasar ( Catholic kingdoms, kings, rulers outside the Catholic Church) give to Ceasar, and what belongs to God give to God.

Those who read history from afar draw incorrect conclusions from those who lived through history.

 

[steve_b]

You must still be in the cradle Steve! How on earth can you say such a thing that Jesus is NOT Lord? We have hymns about the Lord Jesus Christ - we have prayers to the Lord. If Jesus is not Lord then who is???

:tsktsk:

Good grief Cinette!!!

If someone says Jesus is Lord but they leave His Church, is that person just paying lip service to Jesus is Lord?

I didn’t think that needed explaining

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

*Catholics believe that Jesus is Lord. If you believe in what Jesus said to Peter and the promise he made that he will be with us always then it follows that you should believe in Papal infallibility!

*

Cinette my question was posed to a non-Catholic Christian. Either you misunderstood my post or I am misunderstanding yours. Either way you are preaching to the choir since I am Catholic.

God bless

 

[Stylites]

I did not know that simple words needed interpretation, i guess if we were to talk on the chapter of revelation than i might understand. i guess by your answer then i really do not know what we are doing discussing biblical topics since we are not able to correctly interpret any part of the bible as per your statement. Understanding your point means that us average folk have no capacity to comprehend the bible. In essence God has given us a book that cannot be understood therefore i have wasted my time the past 15years.

I am sorry if i am direct.

No need to be sorry. I am only describing Reality, and anyone is free to disagree with Reality if they want to.

What you say are “simple words” are replete with nuance and are rife to misinterpretation when a person takes to Scripture outside of the authority of the Church. Just look at the plethora of “the world will end again next Thursday instead last week Tuesday” predictions of the past 200 years, or all the denominations out there who claim to be following Scripture when they disagree on important theological and moral issues.

Christ established one Church, not 40,000 pride-filled denominations.

“Average folk” undoubtedly benefit from Public Revelation" (wherein Scripture is one part). But in order to receive the fullness of grace they have to adhere to the Church established by Christ, which is holy, catholic and apostolic.

.

 

[CMatt25]

The Catechism states that Catholics who do not attend mass on Sundays, etc commit mortal sin and if one dies in a state of mortal sin they go to hell. Although of course if just before the non practising Catholic dies he genuinely repents in confession and receives the last rites he can go to heaven, although he will have to spend quite a while in purgatory.

KC, am I correct you are applying this judgment to no longer fully practicing Catholics even if they no longer still believe all of what the Catholic Church teaches?

If for instance in your example someone who like me no longer believes missing Mass on Nov 1 is a mortal sin just because one resides in the US and the US bishops declare it so while the Canadians do not.

Or what if someone were to no longer believe you must confess to a priest or be anointed by a priest or someone who might no longer believe in purgatory? So they do not confess to a priest and are not anointed by one just before they die, you are saying that person goes to hell?

What about a Catholic who attends or even actually joins a non-Catholic church?

There certainly seems no consensus among the Catholics here. Either that or some others don’t wish to be as brutally honest as you in regards to whom the Church says is hellbound. But thank you for your answers and God bless. Peace.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You hear different things from different people. If you don’t buy the entire product then you’re labeled a “Cafeteria Catholic” and the whole idea of not living in our own works so that none may boast goes out the door, plenty of boasting kicks in: “I’m towing the line, how bout you!”

Some Catholic priests would tell you to stay Catholic and just roll your eyes and keep quiet about the parts with which you seriously disagree. Don’t bail. Then some, most in CAF, would say to hit the bricks. They believe, and I think I probably do as well, that unless one can accept what GKC calls “the particulars” then you’re only lying to yourself and should go where you feel you are called and where you believe. Catholicism, and it has every right to do so, teaches that you must believe all of its teachings and your individual conscience must stay in line with what they teach. Whether it’s birth control or a divorce without paying the $3000 that I’ve known some people have had to pay for an annulment, or doubts about infallibility or papal supremacy, indulgences, etc. you must believe all these or you are really far from being Catholic. These areas of conscience the Church says must be a “well-formed conscience,” and such a conscience only exists when it’s formulated around Catholicism from what I’ve analyzed, read, and gathered.

Like the song, “Should I stay or should I go!” you’ll hear “stay” and “beat it!” from different folks within Catholicism.

KC, am I correct you are applying this judgment to no longer fully practicing Catholics even if they no longer still believe all of what the Catholic Church teaches?

If for instance in your example someone who like me no longer believes missing Mass on Nov 1 is a mortal sin just because one resides in the US and the US bishops declare it so while the Canadians do not.

Or what if someone were to no longer believe you must confess to a priest or be anointed by a priest or someone who might no longer believe in purgatory? So they do not confess to a priest and are not anointed by one just before they die, you are saying that person goes to hell?

What about a Catholic who attends or even actually joins a non-Catholic church?

There certainly seems no consensus among the Catholics here. Either that or some others don’t wish to be as brutally honest as you in regards to whom the Church says is hellbound. But thank you for your answers and God bless. Peace.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

You hear different things from different people. If you don’t buy the entire product then you’re labeled a “Cafeteria Catholic” and the whole idea of not living in our own works so that none may boast goes out the door, plenty of boasting kicks in: “I’m towing the line, how bout you!”

Some Catholic priests would tell you to stay Catholic and just roll your eyes and keep quiet about the parts with which you seriously disagree. Don’t bail. Then some, most in CAF, would say to hit the bricks. They believe, and I think I probably do as well, that unless one can accept what GKC calls “the particulars” then you’re only lying to yourself and should go where you feel you are called and where you believe. Catholicism, and it has every right to do so, teaches that you must believe all of its teachings and your individual conscience must stay in line with what they teach. Whether it’s birth control or a divorce without paying the $3000 that I’ve known some people have had to pay for an annulment, or doubts about infallibility or papal supremacy, indulgences, etc. you must believe all these or you are really far from being Catholic. These areas of conscience the Church says must be a “well-formed conscience,” and such a conscience only exists when it’s formulated around Catholicism from what I’ve analyzed, read, and gathered.

Like the song, “Should I stay or should I go!” you’ll hear “stay” and “beat it!” from different folks within Catholicism.

Are you honestly saying that there is not judgement and disapproval from different Protestant folks? That this only a Catholic thing? Cause I’ve faced plenty for not believing what different Protestant churches believe and teach. Although knowing what that is sometimes is ALL over the board! Try having a small group study at your house next to your wine collection…

I however have not faced that in my local Catholic church since coming home…