Going to Mass on Thursday.

[igator99]

**There was a time during the last two generations of CCD that the students participating were actually taught that since Vatican II, missing Mass on Sunday is no longer considered a mortal sin, so, we have two generations raised to believe this, which is unfortunate. Even the pastor of our parish continues to teach this. I told him that the CCC does not teach that. He told me that I should go back and re-read the Catechism because I am wrong.
Then I went back and read:

The Code of Canon Law (#1246) proscribes, “Sunday is the day on which the paschal mystery is celebrated in light of the apostolic tradition and is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church.” Moreover, “On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass…” (#1247). Therefore, the Catechism teaches, “Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit grave sin” (#2181), and grave sin is indeed mortal sin.

When I emailed him this, I didn’t get a response. And I asked him politely as to where in my reading was I misinterpreting what was printed.**

Does the church have something in between a vinal sin and a mortal sin? I will go to confession Saturday and Mass Sunday. It just seems a little crazy right now according to the church I’m a grave sinner right up there with a killer. What about those that have been told it is not a grave sin? I have made a vow to myself to follow the laws of the Church. I plan on doing just that. I hope I don’t die until Saturday because according to the Church I’m going to hell!?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Ignorance of God’s law, either through His Church or the Bible, is a daft excuse.

You would need to take that up with people far higher up than me. All I know is that this is from the Catechism:

1857
For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

 

[Chatter163]

IMHO, the OP wishes only to create controversy and does not truly seek to understand the teachings of the Church.

 

[scylla]

Does the church have something in between a vinal sin and a mortal sin? I will go to confession Saturday and Mass Sunday. It just seems a little crazy right now according to the church I’m a grave sinner right up there with a killer. What about those that have been told it is not a grave sin? I have made a vow to myself to follow the laws of the Church. I plan on doing just that. I hope I don’t die until Saturday because according to the Church I’m going to hell!?

That is a caricature of what Catholics really believe. And you can always find a Priest to confess to, and plenty of people do not receive communion so that should not be a problem. If you are repentant God understands if you cannot make it to confession, just don’t receive communion.

If you are unrepentant then there is a very good chance you will go to Hell. Catholics believe that God always gives us chances to repent and you wouldn’t go to Hell if you were repentant and were turning towards God’s mercy.

As for rejecting God and not going to Mass that would be horrible, about as bad as killing someone which both are bad. But there are many other evil things we can do similarly, just because materially it doesn’t quite as bad, spiritually rejecting Christ is quite wrong. We do not know your heart and if you willfully rejected worshipping Christ or not so who are we to say?

All we can do is implore you to seek the mercy of God and don’t think of Catholicism in a caricature of our faith but in a humble obedience to truth, which is what Catholicism is, obedience to the truth of Christ.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[igator99]

That is a caricature of what Catholics really believe. And you can always find a Priest to confess to, and plenty of people do not receive communion so that should not be a problem. If you are repentant God understands if you cannot make it to confession, just don’t receive communion.

If you are unrepentant then there is a very good chance you will go to Hell. Catholics believe that God always gives us chances to repent and you wouldn’t go to Hell if you were repentant and were turning towards God’s mercy.

As for rejecting God and not going to Mass that would be horrible, about as bad as killing someone which both are bad. But there are many other evil things we can do similarly, just because materially it doesn’t quite as bad, spiritually rejecting Christ is quite wrong. We do not know your heart and if you willfully rejected worshipping Christ or not so who are we to say?

All we can do is implore you to seek the mercy of God and don’t think of Catholicism in a caricature of our faith but in a humble obedience to truth, which is what Catholicism is, obedience to the truth of Christ.

In Christ
Scylla

Whoowww Nelly. I’m not rejecting God. As far as priest being everywhere I’m really surprised. There is a shortage of them and there is only one Church that has confession during the week and I can’t make it. I can easily do it on Saturday when every church around here has confession. I’m arguing an unwinnable point because I admit I’m wrong in accordance to the Church teachings. I have repented and said a rosary for the sin. I’m sorry and vow not to miss again if not for a very good reason. It just seems a little crazy to be stuck in limbo until Saturday. That is all.

 

[thistle]

It is just such a trap. This is what made drift away from the Church in the first place. I knew not going to Church on Sunday was wrong. I will not have a chance to attend confession before Thursday. Why must a priest give me absolution? Why can’t I confess to God and pray the rosary? Go to Mass Thursday receive communion (People would think it was really strange if I didn’t) go to confession on Saturday and go to Mass on Sunday. When we were kids confessional periods were all the time. Now where I live it is a one hour block in the afternoon and a two hour block on Saturday.

Why are you getting so indignant? It is clear you know little about your Faith and its about time you learned before blaming the Church for your ignorance. It very much seems you want to bend God to your will instead of obeying his will.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

igator, don’t go to communion on thursday. And to answer your question about being on par with a killer…You would be. Have you ever heard the term “being guilty of the body and blood of Christ”? It’s bad enough to have somebody’s blood on your hands (i.e. murder), so how much worse to have God’s blood on your hands!!!

If you don’t go to communion on Thursday, who cares? Are you afraid people will perceive something bad about you? Let them! They’re sinners, and so are you. You make mistakes and sin, and if somebody wants to assume that you’re a sinner…get it? Don’t worry about human respect. Worry about God’s. I would hate to have everybody believe I am a living saint (through deception) and then be found unworthy of heaven because of my secret sins and pride. See what I mean.

Don’t go to communion on Thursday unless you have already confessed to a priest. The intention to confess at a later time isn’t good enough, and praying the rosary and ‘really being sorry’ aren’t either. We are required to confess to a priest in order that we can receive absolution, in order that we can once again begin to receive God’s graces in the sacraments.

 

[igator99]

Why are you getting so indignant? It is clear you know little about your Faith and its about time you learned before blaming the Church for your ignorance. It very much seems you want to bend God to your will instead of obeying his will.

Not getting indignant. I really was not a practicing Catholic till about a year ago. I am learning more about my faith and trying to be a good Catholic. As I’m learning I’m finding out things I didn’t know. I find this problem I’ve created to be scary and crazy. I’ve committed a mortal sin. It can only absolved by a priest. I can’t receive communion until confession. If I die tonight I go to Hell! I will go to confession on Saturday and Mass on Sunday. Not trying to bend anything just amazed at this Catholic doctrine of the church. Why can’t we pray for forgiveness to God until confession? It just seems a bit extreme for something people do very often.

 

[Corki]

Whoowww Nelly. I’m not rejecting God. As far as priest being everywhere I’m really surprised. There is a shortage of them and there is only one Church that has confession during the week and I can’t make it. I can easily do it on Saturday when every church around here has confession. I’m arguing an unwinnable point because I admit I’m wrong in accordance to the Church teachings. I have repented and said a rosary for the sin. I’m sorry and vow not to miss again if not for a very good reason. It just seems a little crazy to be stuck in limbo until Saturday. That is all.

Well, obviously you are where there is a priest available on Thursdays since he says the Mass you go to. Just ask him to hear your confession.

OR, as has been said several times - just don’t go to Communion on Thursday. You mentioned in an earlier thread that you have been away from Mass for some time and hesitant to go to Confession. If missing Mass on Sunday is your only sin, it shouldn’t matter if your confession is anonymous or not. If you have other things to confess, you shouldn’t receive Communion until you have gone to Confession anyway. This isn’t that complicated. It is not really a big deal to go to Mass but not Communion.

And the teaching is not so extreme. 50 years ago, no serious Catholic would miss a Sunday Mass unless there was a very serious reason. And lots of people go to Confession monthy or even more frequently.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

Why can’t we pray for forgiveness to God until confession? It just seems a bit extreme for something people do very often.

You certainly can, and should pray for forgiveness to God, even from the moment you err. However, assuming you’ll receive God’s mercy without also relying on His perfect justice is a dangerous thing. We are all required to confess to a priest of God. This isn’t protestantism anymore (not that you necessarily came from that direction, though it sounds like it). A big difference between Catholicism and non-Catholic Christianity is the amount of humility required of Catholics. You’ll never hear one say “I’m saved” (as stated above, that’s a big fat assumption) or “I was sorry and Jesus forgave me”, an assumption again. The humility required to confess to another person, i.e. a priest acting in the place of Chist, stands in stark contrast to the pride of many protestants who assume that nothing they do, no matter how evil or how many times without trying to fix the problem, will separate them from the beatific vision.

 

[igator99]

You certainly can, and should pray for forgiveness to God, even from the moment you err. However, assuming you’ll receive God’s mercy without also relying on His perfect justice is a dangerous thing. We are all required to confess to a priest of God. This isn’t protestantism anymore (not that you necessarily came from that direction, though it sounds like it). A big difference between Catholicism and non-Catholic Christianity is the amount of humility required of Catholics. You’ll never hear one say “I’m saved” (as stated above, that’s a big fat assumption) or “I was sorry and Jesus forgave me”, an assumption again. The humility required to confess to another person, i.e. a priest acting in the place of Chist, stands in stark contrast to the pride of many protestants who assume that nothing they do, no matter how evil or how many times without trying to fix the problem, will separate them from the beatific vision.

I was born Catholic but grew up in a church with a strange order of priests that did not believe much in confession. I know it seems really strange but it is one reason why I was pretty much oblivious to how important confession is to a practicing Catholic. My mom never missed a Sunday but she never went to confession. You make a good point about how Protestants confess to God and assume they are forgiven. How sure are we that we are forgiven after confessing to priest? Like I said I’m trying to stick to a vow I made and become a good Catholic. I’m finding this whole mortal sin thing over something small scary. If I decide to stay home and watch an NFL game and don’t make it to confession before I die I go to hell? If I decide to blow someones head off but make it to confession before I’m arrested I’m forgiven? How many holy days of obligation you think people miss during the year? I would imagine a lot. I wasn’t even sure what that meant until a year ago. However because they didn’t do it intentionally and are ignorant about it then they are okay. It is pointless because I’m not going to change the Church. It is just as I’ve said before very scary and extreme. However this is the doctrine of the Church so I will abide by it. It is much easier to go to Church on Sunday than worry about this.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

I was born Catholic but grew up in a church with a strange order of priests that did not believe much in confession. I know it seems really strange but it is one reason why I was pretty much oblivious to how important confession is to a practicing Catholic. My mom never missed a Sunday but she never went to confession. You make a good point about how Protestants confess to God and assume they are forgiven. How sure are we that we are forgiven after confessing to priest? Like I said I’m trying to stick to a vow I made and become a good Catholic. I’m finding this whole mortal sin thing over something small scary. If I decide to stay home and watch an NFL game and don’t make it to confession before I die I go to hell? If I decide to blow someones head off but make it to confession before I’m arrested I’m forgiven? How many holy days of obligation you think people miss during the year? I would imagine a lot. I wasn’t even sure what that meant until a year ago. However because they didn’t do it intentionally and are ignorant about it then they are okay. It is pointless because I’m not going to change the Church. It is just as I’ve said before very scary and extreme. However this is the doctrine of the Church so I will abide by it. It is much easier to go to Church on Sunday than worry about this.

That’s the point you’re missing, however; it’s NOT “something small”. Missing Mass is serious. Football is not serious. Mass is serious. The laws of the Church are serious. They are not because some dudes 1800 years ago thought it’d be funny to put a cramp in your social life, party life, or hang-over recovery day etc. The supreme law of the Church is the salvation of souls. Everything the Church legislates is toward that end.

Aside from the 10 commandments, there are also 6 precepts of the Church:

1. To go to Mass and refrain from servile work on Sundays and holy days.

2. To go to Confession at least once a year (traditionally done during Lent).

1. To receive the Eucharist at least once a year, during the Easter Season (known as the “Easter duty”).
2. To observe the days of fasting and abstinence.
3. To help to provide for the needs of the Church according to one’s abilities and station in life.
4. To obey the marriage laws of the Church.

Please also re-read number 2. I’m not sure what you meant when you said your mom “never” went to confession, but it is our duty, even if we do not commit a single mortal sin the entire time, to go to confession at least once a year.

Mortal sin is never over ‘something small’. Take care!

 

[CassiusLonginus]

Oh yeah, and as to your other question: “How sure are we that we are forgiven after confessing to priest?”

If you accuse yourself of all your sins, especially the mortal ones, without purposefully omitting any of them, or wording it to make it seem less bad than it is, and the priest gives you (proper) absolution, you’re in good shape. Remember, don’t explain aawy your sins to the priest, simply accuse yourself. “I sinned in this manner on four occasions”. If you truly forgot to confess a mortal sin that time but remembered later, you’d have to confess that sin (though you wouldn’t be back in a state of mortal sin upon remembering it…you’d only return to a state of mortal sin if, having remembered it and gone back to confession, you then omitted it purposefully).

Also, you asked: “If I decide to blow someones head off but make it to confession before I’m arrested I’m forgiven?”

You’d be forgiven of the sin, but not the crime. Also, if the priest gave you absolution, whether it was before or after you were arrested, it’d be forgiven but you’d still owe your debt to society, so to speak.

Then there was: “How many holy days of obligation you think people miss during the year? I would imagine a lot.”

Correct me if I’m wrong, since my last OF was years ago, but actually, in the modern Novus Ordo structure most, if not all of the holy days except Christmas are (or ‘can be’?) translated to the closest Sunday. Any practicing Catholic who does his duty and follows the 1st precept of the Church, won’t miss holy days of obligation.

Besides, there aren’t that many holy days of obligation. Here in the US it’s Circumcision, Ascension, Assumption, All Saints, Immaculate Conception, and Christmas.

And “However because they didn’t do it intentionally and are ignorant about it then they are okay.”

Actually, this is not true in most cases (or at least it shouldn’t be).

“It is pointless because I’m not going to change the Church.”

Why would you want to? Anyway, the Church itself has made being a practicing Catholic much easier in the last 40 years anyway.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

How sure are we that we are forgiven after confessing to priest?

That’s part of the beauty of the sacrament. We know we’re forgiven because the priest tells us we are. We don’t have to guess or wonder about it…we know.

I don’t know if you’ve really listened to the prayer of absolution. I think it’s beautiful:

God, the Father of mercies,
through the death and the resurrection of his Son
has reconciled the world to himself
and sent the Holy Spirit among us
for the forgiveness of sins;
through the ministry of the Church
may God give you pardon and peace,
and I absolve you from your sins
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

I’m finding this whole mortal sin thing over something small scary.

In our minds missing Mass may be trivial. But if you look at the Ten Commandments, one of them says to keep holy the Lord’s Day. Obeying that law isn’t something minor. You might find it interesting to read the section of the Catechism that talks about the sabbath: usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt1art3.shtml

Correct me if I’m wrong, since my last OF was years ago, but actually, in the modern Novus Ordo structure most, if not all of the holy days except Christmas are (or ‘can be’?) translated to the closest Sunday. Any practicing Catholic who does his duty and follows the 1st precept of the Church, won’t miss holy days of obligation.

In addition to Sunday, the days to be observed as holy days of obligation in the Latin Rite dioceses of the United States of America, in conformity with canon 1246, are as follows:

January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God;
Thursday of the Sixth Week of Easter, the solemnity of the Ascension;
August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary;
November 1, the solemnity of All Saints;
December 8, the solemnity of the Immaculate Conception;
December 25, the solemnity of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Whenever January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God, or August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption, or November 1, the solemnity of All Saints, falls on a Saturday or on a Monday, the precept to attend Mass is abrogated. Source]

In most dioceses I believe the Ascension is moved to Sunday. So that leaves five that are observed.

 

[igator99]

Oh yeah, and as to your other question: “How sure are we that we are forgiven after confessing to priest?”

If you accuse yourself of all your sins, especially the mortal ones, without purposefully omitting any of them, or wording it to make it seem less bad than it is, and the priest gives you (proper) absolution, you’re in good shape. Remember, don’t explain aawy your sins to the priest, simply accuse yourself. “I sinned in this manner on four occasions”. If you truly forgot to confess a mortal sin that time but remembered later, you’d have to confess that sin (though you wouldn’t be back in a state of mortal sin upon remembering it…you’d only return to a state of mortal sin if, having remembered it and gone back to confession, you then omitted it purposefully).

Also, you asked: “If I decide to blow someones head off but make it to confession before I’m arrested I’m forgiven?”

You’d be forgiven of the sin, but not the crime. Also, if the priest gave you absolution, whether it was before or after you were arrested, it’d be forgiven but you’d still owe your debt to society, so to speak.

Then there was: “How many holy days of obligation you think people miss during the year? I would imagine a lot.”

Correct me if I’m wrong, since my last OF was years ago, but actually, in the modern Novus Ordo structure most, if not all of the holy days except Christmas are (or ‘can be’?) translated to the closest Sunday. Any practicing Catholic who does his duty and follows the 1st precept of the Church, won’t miss holy days of obligation.

Besides, there aren’t that many holy days of obligation. Here in the US it’s Circumcision, Ascension, Assumption, All Saints, Immaculate Conception, and Christmas.

And “However because they didn’t do it intentionally and are ignorant about it then they are okay.”

Actually, this is not true in most cases (or at least it shouldn’t be).

“It is pointless because I’m not going to change the Church.”

Why would you want to? Anyway, the Church itself has made being a practicing Catholic much easier in the last 40 years anyway.

Some of those holy days of obligation fall during the week and people can’t make them. I’ve been to my local church for confession which is in a huge parish and believe me the line for Saturday confession was not very long. All of this is pointless because if I want to be good Catholic I must follow its doctrine which I’m clearly not. So I’m in the wrong and I will make it right. I’m just shocked at how missing Church on a Sunday being a deadly sin. It is right up there with murder in the Church. Sorry I don’t see it but then I don’t have to. I just got to obey. Thank you telling me the Church’s position.

 

[SenorSalsa]

It is just such a trap. This is what made drift away from the Church in the first place. I knew not going to Church on Sunday was wrong. I will not have a chance to attend confession before Thursday. Why must a priest give me absolution? Why can’t I confess to God and pray the rosary? Go to Mass Thursday receive communion (People would think it was really strange if I didn’t) go to confession on Saturday and go to Mass on Sunday. When we were kids confessional periods were all the time. Now where I live it is a one hour block in the afternoon and a two hour block on Saturday.

most priests will meet you at the church for confession any time of the day if you just give them a call. I have even known some that will meet you at your house if you cannot make it to the church.

Believe me it is humbling when everyone else is going up to receive Jesus and you cannot, but I think this serves as a worthwhile penance. Perhaps before the next week you will remember that yearning you had to get in line and make sure that you are properly disposed for the next Mass you attend.

And just to repeat it, if you need to, feel free to give your parish a call about setting up a confession appointment. You could even talk to the priest about getting to the church 15 minutes early on Thursdays to hear your confession.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

Some of those holy days of obligation fall during the week and people can’t make them.

That happens. Sometimes it’s legit, other times probably not so much. Plus, a lot of places have reaaally early or late Masses on those weekdays that are holy days because, believe me, the Church and the clergy understand that people work. If possible, request the day off months ahead of time. That’s what I do.

I’m just shocked at how missing Church on a Sunday being a deadly sin.

As I said, it’s a law of the Church in order that you can save your soul. If it wasn’t mandatory, then almost NOBODY, especially not the men, would go to Mass EVER. Consider this…“Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s”. So, 167 hours out of every week we ‘give to caesar’, (or, at least 40 hours a week if you’re simply talkin’ profession), and yet the Church basically only requires that 1 hour in a week for Mass. Why would missing Mass on Sundays NOT be a mortal sin???

It is right up there with murder in the Church. Sorry I don’t see it but then I don’t have to.

When you consider that you may be murdering your soul, and setting a bad example for other souls by a lackadaisical attitude toward getting up and going to Mass. Even if missing Mass in and of itself weren’t a mortal sin, you’d still be putting your soul in grave danger of being eternally ‘murdered’ by your lukewarmness. Remember, going to Mass is the single most important thing anybody can do in a week.

 

[yinekka]

It seems to me that you are making a much bigger deal out of this than you need to.

As I understand it you have missed Sunday Mass a few times and thought you could substitute Thursday Mass for Sunday Mass.

You have been correctly told that you can’t substitute Mass on another day for Sunday Mass. Note that Sunday Mass includes Saturday Evening Vigil Mass.

Objectively you committed a mortal sin when you missed Sunday Mass but subjectively there may have been factors which mitigated your culpability. We read in the Catechism of the Catholic Church

CCC 1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

If you did not meet any of those conditions your sin is not mortal and you can receive Holy Communion although it would be a good idea to confess the missing of Mass next time you go to Confession.

If you knew that missing Sunday Mass is grave matter and you knew that Thursday Mass could not be substituted and you did it anyway then it would seem that you have committed a mortal sin. If you have any doubts about any one of the above conditions you didn’t commit a mortal sin.

You worry that people will think it odd if you don’t receive Holy Communion on Thursday.

Why are you receiving Holy Communion - to receive an increase of sanctifying grace in your soul or to impress people? If you broke your fast you couldn’t go to Holy Communion and people will just assume you broke your fast. If it bothers you not receiving Holy Communion on Thursday don’t go to Mass on Thursday.

If you are sure that you have committed a mortal and and you make a perfect act of contrition - sorrow for offending God and not worry about going to hell - then yes you could receive Holy Communion on Thursday and confess your sin on Saturday. The trouble is though we don’t know for sure when we have made a perfect act of contrition. We Catholics are so lucky to have the sacrament of reconcilliation; imperfect contrition - sorrow because of possible penalties - is ok for reconcilliation.

We go to Holy Mass to offer praise and worship to the God Who created us and Who holds us in existence. As one person said - going to Sunday Mass is the most important thing we do all week. It has also been pointed out to you that Holy Mass lasts an hour at most and that is less than one percent of the week - is it too much to devote that time to God? Just as you have to obey the laws of the state in which you live so too you have to obey the laws of the Church of which you are a member. To put yourself above the Church Jesus founded sounds like pride to me. Obedience is the most difficult virtue particularly in our ‘I do it my way’ times.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

If you are sure that you have committed a mortal and and you make a perfect act of contrition - sorrow for offending God and not worry about going to hell - then yes you could receive Holy Communion on Thursday and confess your sin on Saturday. The trouble is though we don’t know for sure when we have made a perfect act of contrition.

Good (name removed by moderator)ut, yinekka. I’d like to reinforce the point you made that you can’t know if you’ve made your ‘perfect act of contrition’. I personally think it’s a terrible idea to rely on this exception, especially since you could potentially be committing another mortal sin etc…

Just as you have to obey the laws of the state in which you live so too you have to obey the laws of the Church of which you are a member.

Nice point, I like what you wrote! There are those who, both with societal and church laws, try to see how much they can get away with rather than just obeying as best they can. I even observe the former type here in some of the other forum areas, such as the unmarried fellow who french kisses his girlfriend, supposedly not for physical enjoyment, but rather to further his emotional connection with her and who, of course, isn’t tempted in the least to ‘do more’ (in regard to the physical aspect of things)…I know, it sounds confusing, and like bad excuses to put oneself in the near occasion (if not right in actual) sin etc…incredible…ridiculous…I’ll tell you what, when I was trying to strengthen my emotional connection wth the woman who became my wife, we’d talk the sun down the sky, not start licking each other…

Bottom line, do your best to live right in the middle of the Faith, rather than trying to push the outer boundaries of it while trying to stay inside of it. You can’t serve two masters. God bless, igator!

 

[RLT]

igator99, you’re making this more difficult than it should be.

Make a good act of contrition for starters, and like others have suggested go to mass but refrain from receiving communion until you confess.

If you can’t make it at the designated time for reconciliation make an appointment with a priest, try to do it before mass on Thursday. Simple.

As for what other might think about you not receiving, forget them. What’s worse, those folks thinking its strange you not receiving or offending our Lord by putting their sensibilities over Him and receiving Him in a possible state of mortal sin?

Think about what yinekka said in post 38.

Dominus Tecum.