Gonzaga University will cover contraception but promises to clearly communicate Church teaching

[iloveangels]

The thing is who helped make it law? Who voted in such a way that it would remain law rather than be challenged?

Catholics did… many of which are part of these Catholic institutions. If the same Catholics didn’t care that it would remain law or didn’t think it was that big of a deal to make Catholic institutions provide contraception, sterilization and abortifacients, why would they all of a sudden care about listening to the Pope now?

So I still disagree. This issue is political as well as religious.

No, from a Catholic point of view, it’s actually NOT political. The fact that the USCCB has had a huge political bias has been a terrific problem, and a gross error. Perhaps they’re realizing that now, and perhaps not yet. They will as time goes on. This is only going to get worse now.

Many Catholics are more secular than Catholic and can’t tell the difference between religion and politics. I won’t argue with you on that one. It’s true.

Just remember: The Church pre-dates American politics by 1800 years, and doesn’t depend on it for anything. If the US were to disappear today, the Church would go on–and with the same basic principles it’s always had.

 

[Lucky7]

No, from a Catholic point of view, it’s actually NOT political. The fact that the USCCB has had a huge political bias has been a terrific problem, and a gross error. Perhaps they’re realizing that now, and perhaps not yet. They will as time goes on. This is only going to get worse now.

Many Catholics are more secular than Catholic and can’t tell the difference between religion and politics. I won’t argue with you on that one. It’s true.

Just remember: The Church pre-dates American politics by 1800 years, and doesn’t depend on it for anything. If the US were to disappear today, the Church would go on–and with the same basic principles it’s always had.

We probably agree more than we disagree; however, if American politics disappeared we wouldn’t have universities following Obamacare and therefore we wouldn’t be talking about this at all.

 

[iloveangels]

We probably agree more than we disagree; however, if American politics disappeared we wouldn’t have universities following Obamacare and therefore we wouldn’t be talking about this at all.

It’s not possible for politics to disappear, so that’s a non-argument. However, that doesn’t make it a religious entity. It just makes it a property of human societies, like the necessary presence of toilets (or something that does the same job as a toilet).

The problem is that many Catholics think that religion = politics, and politics = religion. They can’t tell the difference between the two.

 

[fix]

Eh, I happen to agree that calling Fluke a degenerate is uncharitable and judgmental. However, when pointing that out one can also sound judgmental themselves depending upon how it is done.

He did not call her that at all.

 

[Lucky7]

It’s not possible for politics to disappear, so that’s a non-argument. However, that doesn’t make it a religious entity. It just makes it a property of human societies, like the necessary presence of toilets (or something that does the same job as a toilet).

The problem is that many Catholics think that religion = politics, and politic = religion. They can’t tell the difference between the two.

My point was that if it did disappear, we wouldn’t be talking about the fact that “Catholic” universities are following Obamacare.

Anyway, I’m more for talking about the religious aspects of this topic. I’m just not willing to get upset with anyone for bringing up the politicial connections.

We’ll just haev to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[iloveangels]

My point was that if it did disappear, we wouldn’t be talking about the fact that “Catholic” universities are following Obamacare.

Anyway, I’m more for talking about the religious aspects of this topic. I’m just not willing to get upset with anyone for bringing up the politicial connections.

We’ll just haev to agree to disagree on this one.

Politics can’t disappear, Lucky. Any more than toilets can. That’s exactly my point. But that doesn’t mean it EQUALS religion. Because it doesn’t.

 

[Lucky7]

He did not call her that at all.

As much as I would like that to be the case, this is his exact quote:

Catholics are being forced to violate the normative moral order in order to make life marginally easier for aggressive and remorseless degenerates like Sandra Fluke.

But none of us are perfect.

 

[Lucky7]

Politics can’t disappear, Lucky. Any more than toilets can. That’s exactly my point. But that doesn’t mean it EQUALS religion. Because it doesn’t.

Uggh. So it would be some other politics that would affect our Catholic institutions. And I never said it was equal to religion! I am just allowing for bringing it up.

Done with this.

 

[fix]

As much as I would like that to be the case, this is his exact quote:

Catholics are being forced to violate the normative moral order in order to make life marginally easier for aggressive and remorseless degenerates like Sandra Fluke.

But none of us are perfect.

I sorry I was referring to post 92. That is when I entered the discussion.

 

[NeedsMercy]

I’m not sure what you are talking about when you say this is OT.

And yes, when folks go on a diatribe on how we should not judge, they are judging as well. Or is this not a true statement? I’m not even disagreeing with you that that particular statement was uncharitable and that we should try not to act like that, but your long post goes beyond just saying that.

“OT” = off topic

Well, I accept that blame must be shared all around. My first post (#104) just wanted to point out something in one–ONE–previous post. Unfortunately, it didn’t end there. I do take exception to your labeling my response a “diatribe”, however, which, by definition, is a “bitter, abusive attack”. My response was neither. Is everyone OK now? :hypno:

 

[Lucky7]

“OT” = off topic

Well, I accept that blame must be shared all around. My first post (#104) just wanted to point out something in one–ONE–previous post. Unfortunately, it didn’t end there. I do take exception to your labeling my response a “diatribe”, however, which, by definition, is a “bitter, abusive attack”. My response was neither. Is everyone OK now? :hypno:

Perhpas diatribe was a bit off. I’m not sure what the best word would be to describe that particular post, but it was more than just letting someone know they were being uncharitable. It was more than just a post to correct fraternally. Vocabulary choices are not my strong suit, so I’ll probably do this again somewhere down the road.

Anyway, I think a big part of the problem here is that the thread is very long and it is close to impossible for any of us to be able to read/remember/comprehend every word someone says. I also dislike that you can only quote one person at a time (unless you copy and paste and jump through hoops!). It is much cleaner, but it makes it very hard to follow previous statements.

 

[Digitonomy]

This doesn’t surprise me at all, coming from Gonzaga. They’ve probably been covering it all along and they’ve just decided not to change their coverage for now.

I have heard that schools that have overseas campuses in some parts of Europe have been complying with laws there similar to the HHS mandate.

 

[_Abyssinia]

I have heard that schools that have overseas campuses in some parts of Europe have been complying with laws there similar to the HHS mandate.

Which countries?

 

[Linusthe2nd]

catholicworldreport.com/Blog/1778/jesuit_gonzaga_university_will_cover_contraception.aspx

I think it interesting that the Bishops have not said exactly how a Catholic institution must respond in these instances. At least I haven’t heard anything.

 

[iloveangels]

Perhpas diatribe was a bit off. I’m not sure what the best word would be to describe that particular post, but it was more than just letting someone know they were being uncharitable. It was more than just a post to correct fraternally. Vocabulary choices are not my strong suit, so I’ll probably do this again somewhere down the road.

Anyway, I think a big part of the problem here is that the thread is very long and it is close to impossible for any of us to be able to read/remember/comprehend every word someone says. I also dislike that you can only quote one person at a time (unless you copy and paste and jump through hoops!). It is much cleaner, but it makes it very hard to follow previous statements.

You can quote more than one person at a time. There’s a little icon in the extreme bottom right corner, to the immediate right of the “Quote” button, and you can just go along collecting them. Then when you’re ready to post, you just hit the button at the bottom on the left called “Post Reply.”

Mind you, you have to pay attention to the / quote] tags in order to put your comments between the quotes. But other than that, it’s very easy.

 

[iloveangels]

Which countries?

Germany, for one.

 

[iloveangels]

I think it interesting that the Bishops have not said exactly how a Catholic institution must respond in these instances. At least I haven’t heard anything.

Well, not exactly. Up to this point, all this has been done on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes the bishops have insisted on Catholic teaching, and even taken Catholic status away from institutions for not teaching correctly. A good example was the hospital in Arizona of a couple of years back who insisted on performing an abortion. On the other hand, many instances of universities and so on have been simply ignored by bishops pretty much whatever they did. And there are some states that have state laws that infringe on this too, and they’ve also been ignored.

What makes it different this time is the extent of the problem. It’s never been presented to the Church on a nationwide basis by the federal government before, in quite this manner.

 

[NeedsMercy]

Perhpas diatribe was a bit off. I’m not sure what the best word would be to describe that particular post, but it was more than just letting someone know they were being uncharitable. It was more than just a post to correct fraternally. Vocabulary choices are not my strong suit, so I’ll probably do this again somewhere down the road.

I will temper my comments in the future. :yup:

 

[CaptFun]

Sigh. I miss former Gonzaga President Fr. Robert Spitzer. And wonder if his decision would be the same as this.

Here’s a remedial idea. On the contraceptives’ box (or whatever) put the equivalent of
the Surgeon Generals’ warning to smokers which must grace every cigarette pack in the US. Oh … something like:

WARNING: THE VICAR OF CHRIST AND HIS HOLY CHURCH HAS DETERMINED THAT THE USE OF ARTIFICIAL CONTRACEPTIVES CAN BE EXTREMELY HARMFUL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL HEALTH CAN CAUSE THE LOSS OF SAVING GRACE AND CAN RESULT IN ETERNAL CONSEQUENCES UNINTENDED BY THE USER(S). US LAW AND FREE WILL ALLOW FOR THE SALE OF THIS PRODUCT ON CATHOLIC GROUNDS OR BY CATHOLIC ORGANIZATIONS BUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN NO WAYS ENDORSE OR RECOMMEND THIS PRODUCT AND IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HARM DONE TO THE SPIRIT(S) OR BODIES OF THOSE PURCHASING IT DUE TO ITS “PROPER USE” OR CONSEQUENCES LIKE THE TRANSMISSION OF DISEASES PER INFECTED USERS WHO WERE TOLD THE METHOD(S) WERE “SAFE” THOUGH FAILURE RATES AS HIGH AS 20% HAVE BEEN REPORTED BY REPUTABLE GOVERNMENT PUBLICATIONS.

Something like that. Improve this rough draft if you will dear readers.

Lest you think this extreme … have you heard a TV commercial for over the counter medicines lately? The list of possible side-effects is half the commercial! Gonzaga (and/or whomever else decides on this compromise strategy) maybe ought to do AT LEAST this. Although "Just Say NO … " and maybe join the lawsuits (… and I HATE lawsuits mostly!) is the better policy IMO.

 

[iloveangels]

Sigh. I miss former Gonzaga President Fr. Robert Spitzer. And wonder if his decision would be the same as this.

Here’s a remedial idea. ,

Right. And you and what army are going to put all this together? CaptFun. Reality check:

A little over 20% of the country says they’re Catholic. Of that 20%, only about 20% show up at mass weekly. 20% of 20% is 4%. Do you even realize this?

10% of the population says it’s ex-Catholic.

“Catholic” statistics for birth control, abortion, divorce and other social behaviors are roughly the same as the general population. Wake up.