Gonzaga University will cover contraception but promises to clearly communicate Church teaching

[jwinch2]

The HHS mandate doesn’t include the above.

Doesn’t really matter, though I agree there was no need to frame the argument that way. What is important is that the HHS mandate does include that which is intrinsically evil.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I never understood it either. In fact I’ve had difficulty with the degree of uproar over the mandate among Catholics in the first place.

Because this is a direct order from the federal government to violate our consciences. I don’t see how you can “have difficulty” with that.

Besides Catholics who do not tell their leaders they don’t want their tax money to fund intrinsic evil and non-negotiable issues could be committing **sin of omission.
**

I strongly suggest that all Christians and people of faith get acquainted with that phrase immediately.

Because there might be other Christians who believe there should be some uniformity among employer benefits. These same Christians might believe contraception should be included in healthcare benefit packages regardless of their low cost.

Catholics are not “other Christians”. “Other Christians” are largely seeing their churches split apart over certain social issues.

And a quick “google search” will uncover health matters where contraceptives are prescribed.

Catholic teaching is not opposed to birth control pills as a means for medicine. My wife and her friend took them when they were teenagers for that reason.

To such people of faith, this might not be evil.

Neither is so-called “gay marriage”, abortion, missing Mass on Sundays or giving to the poor.

There are actually some more mainline to liberal Christian denominations that have not opposed the mandate.

That’s because progressives successfully infiltrated their churches 80 years ago. They knew they’d never be able to make contraception acceptable without Church support.

Their efforts were largely successful, and as a partial result, Catholics now are by far the largest denomination.

The will or ineffective foresight of other Churches to breed themselves out of existence like atheism or humanist does not warrant an obligation on Catholic to buy them condoms whether we are pluralistic or not.

If you feel we must, then you cannot argue against a law that says everyone, including “other Christians” must attend a Catholic service or face prison time or a fine.

That is what big government turns into. You always have a bunch of people who think they are the smartest individuals in the room and they can tame the beast.

So to not have the mandate in healthcare coverage would be to affect someone else’s liberty. I guess I just find things are not always black and white though and can see where balancing rights in a society of plural beliefs can be difficult.

Are you kidding? Going along with the pluralism of society is one of the **easiest **choices to make.

To quote El Rusbho, that’s why** liberals,** whether they are Catholic, Protestant or non-religious have to make-up crises and trauma like global warming to white guilt to African grievance over the slave trade in order to get attention and find a purpose in life.

Frankly, it’s pitiful and pathetic.

I wonder what Jesus would say about how you are so willing to capitulate in the face of societal or pressure.

I’m sure He wouldn’t want people to sit around and feel sorry for themselves.

Trust me, the world has PLENTY of problems without liberal and democratic Americans trying to find a reason to feel bad.

The bottom line you’re never going to please everyone.

Well, government wouldn’t have that problem if it would GET OUT OF THE WAY!

And indeed people of faith and goodwill are going to disagree sometimes. That’s the reality of life on earth

That’s because of a lot of “people of faith” are more selfish than they could possibly realize.

 

[SuperLuigi]

That’s why I said “Catholic prior to the Land o’Lakes Statement,” of 1967, which effectively secularized what were, up until then, Catholic Universities.

Here’s an article about the man who was the driving force behind this movement: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Hesburgh

Were I Pope (as scary as that sounds) I would start stripping away the Catholic status of universities who do comply with Church teaching.

 

[iloveangels]

Were I Pope (as scary as that sounds) I would start stripping away the Catholic status of universities who do comply with Church teaching.

He can’t. That’s not how the system is set up.

These universities are now run by lay boards and most of them are legally not under the authority of the Church anymore, even remotely. They haven’t been for years. That’s why they can do the things they do and get away with it.

The word “Catholic” has also entered the public domain, and regardless of all the yelling and posturing over it, they can’t do anything about that either. And most cradle Catholics don’t care. 80% don’t even bother to show up at mass on a weekly basis.

 

[SuperLuigi]

He can’t. That’s not how the system is set up.

These universities are now run by lay boards and most of them are legally not under the authority of the Church anymore, even remotely. They haven’t been for years. That’s why they can do the things they do and get away with it.

The word “Catholic” has also entered the public domain, and regardless of all the yelling and posturing over it, they can’t do anything about that either. And most cradle Catholics don’t care. 80% don’t even bother to show up at mass on a weekly basis.

I wasn’t aware of that.

 

[SouthCatholic]

While Gonzaga hasn’t gone as far off the deep end as many of the Universities that were Catholic prior to the Land o’ Lakes Statement, and still retains somewhat of a Catholic culture, I’m afraid they are starting to go the way of Georgetown, Boston, etc.

When their law school has myriad student groups for various left-leaning causes, secular political causes, and groups for Protestant and Mormon students, but NO St. Thomas More Society for Catholic students, that says something right there.

If they don’t have a St. Thomas More Society it is because the students have not requested one. Unless you can demonstrate that the students requested one and were denied recognition, it’s on the students to form one and ask for recognition as an official student group just like every other group that has received recognition.

 

[CMatt25]

The HHS mandate doesn’t include the above.

Maybe not but I find that can be beside the point here. I find it’s not all that uncommon for apples and oranges to be mixed. If someone speaks of an issue, someone else might bring up “infanticide up to 3 months post-birth by all employers” or slavery or the Holocaust or polygamy, and so forth. None of which might have been the topic being discussed. Or someone might speak of liberals believing the government is the almighty. Mainline to liberal Christians and other liberal believers in God, I think might be offended by such a thing. To them it would be blasphemy for them to believe the government was almighty. Yet some conservatives seem to think they know “liberal 101” and think they can speak for liberals of faith. Anyway the last I knew Gonzaga was located in the United States of America which has laws of the land. The mandate being one. As with any law we might not agree with, you still either choose to follow the law or pay the consequences for breaking it. Gonzaga apparently has chosen to comply but while still teaching Catholic belief. .

 

[CMatt25]

Catholic teaching is not opposed to birth control pills as a means for medicine.

Neither is so-called “gay marriage”, abortion, missing Mass on Sundays or giving to the poor.

That is what big government turns into. You always have a bunch of people who think they are the smartest individuals in the room and they can tame the beast.

Well, government wouldn’t have that problem if it would GET OUT OF THE WAY!

Based on the uproar over the mandate, it appears to me though it’s opposed to the pills being covered in employer healthcare plans.

Right those other issues may not be considered as evil in some faiths as you believe them to be. Not everyone in the United States of America shares the Catholic faith’s beliefs.

Uh huh. I can think of some issues where you might like big government being involved. But they’re not the topic of this thread. Peace.

 

[sw85]

They’re not necessarily in the wrong here. The HHS mandate isn’t going anywhere, so their choice is either to cover contraception or cover nothing. Since covering contraception is, on their part, an unintended and unwilled consequence of the good of offering insurance, I think they’re morally inculpable for it, especially since they did their duty by resisting the mandate initially and are even now doing it only reluctantly.

It’s not the fault of Gonzaga that this is happening. It’s the fault of our President, and in part the Catholics who voted him back into office.

 

[JMJSHJ]

They’re not necessarily in the wrong here. The HHS mandate isn’t going anywhere, so their choice is either to cover contraception or cover nothing. Since covering contraception is, on their part, an unintended and unwilled consequence of the good of offering insurance, I think they’re morally inculpable for it, especially since they did their duty by resisting the mandate initially and are even now doing it only reluctantly.

It’s not the fault of Gonzaga that this is happening. It’s the fault of our President, and in part the Catholics who voted him back into office.

It may not be Gonzaga’s fault for the implemention of the HHS mandate but they could take a page from other Catholic institutions and sue the government. Why is it that Liberty University is doing it but not a Catholic institution?

 

[Suudy]

The HHS mandate doesn’t include the above.

No, but it demonstrates the flaw in reasoning used earlier. Apply that principle you outlined to any other coverage the Church finds evil, such as abortion, and it is apparent it is flawed. For example, the state of Washington has considered a bill to mandate abortion coverage. If it were passed, would your reasoning be the same for Catholic institutions in WA?

 

[CMatt25]

They’re not necessarily in the wrong here. The HHS mandate isn’t going anywhere, so their choice is either to cover contraception or cover nothing. Since covering contraception is, on their part, an unintended and unwilled consequence of the good of offering insurance, I think they’re morally inculpable for it, especially since they did their duty by resisting the mandate initially and are even now doing it only reluctantly.

Exactly. The mandate is the law of the land. And the option of Gonzaga covering nothing I fail to see as a Christian how that would fit into our Lord’s call to care for the sick. The Supreme Court has spoken. The American people spoke last month when we had an election.

 

[scipio337]

Exactly. The mandate is the law of the land. And the option of Gonzaga covering nothing I fail to see as a Christian how that would fit into our Lord’s call to care for the sick. The Supreme Court has spoken. The American people spoke last month when we had an election.

The Supreme Court Decision covered the individual mandate, not the HHS mandate for -]free/-] insurer/insured paid contraceptions, including abortofacients.

See “remote material cooperation with an intrinsic evil”. Not sure how anyone could do enough mental gymnastics to consider anything a “proportionate reason” here.

Obama giveth, Obama taketh away, blessed be the name of Obama!

 

[ProVobis]

Exactly. The mandate is the law of the land. And the option of Gonzaga covering nothing I fail to see as a Christian how that would fit into our Lord’s call to care for the sick. The Supreme Court has spoken. The American people spoke last month when we had an election.

The HHS mandate isn’t the same thing as the mandate the Supreme Court ruled constitutional under our tax laws. It is my understanding that it’s a simple* executive order which Obama could withdraw anytime. He already has had at least one compromise on it.

• perhaps not so simple if there were discriminatory issues involved.

 

[jwinch2]

The American people spoke last month when we had an election.

The American people do not get to vote on the truth of what is, or is not, intrinsic evil or a violation of religious freedom. Nor do the American people get to vote on what is, or is not, a violation of my conscience.

 

[iloveangels]

This doesn’t surprise me at all, coming from Gonzaga. They’ve probably been covering it all along and they’ve just decided not to change their coverage for now.

Gonzaga is not run by the Church. They’re a business. The local bishops should just make them declare that they’re not affiliated with the local diocese and be done with it, because they’re not. And then be done with it. If there’s answering to God to be done at the end, then whoever it is at Gonzaga who makes these policies will do it. It’s just that simple.

There are people for whom politics is a religion, but what is their eternal reward? A vacation to Washington, DC where they get the cheap tour of Congress, complete with a hamburger from the basement cafeteria? Or do they even get that?

 

[CMatt25]

The Supreme Court Decision covered the individual mandate, not the HHS mandate for -]free/-] insurer/insured paid contraceptions, including abortofacients.

Right and I pray individuals mandated to be covered whose employers still offer health care coverage have that option with the HHS mandate included. Although I suppose if we see and end to employer coverage, we could go always go with the option of single payer. But as Obama said when he took single payer off the table, we weren’t starting over as our system has been geared towards employer based coverage.

 

[scipio337]

Right and I pray individuals mandated to be covered whose employers still offer health care coverage have that option with the HHS mandate included. Although I suppose if we see and end to employer coverage, we could go always go with the option of single payer. But as Obama said when he took single payer off the table, we weren’t starting over as our system has been geared towards employer based coverage.

As I pray “freedom of religion” also means “freedom of conscience”. Unfortunately, this administration you support limits it to mere freedom of worship.

 

[CMatt25]

The American people do not get to vote on the truth of what is, or is not, intrinsic evil or a violation of religious freedom. Nor do the American people get to vote on what is, or is not, a violation of my conscience.

The American people did vote. I don’t understand why Catholics can’t seem to understand though that not every American agrees with the Catholic faith on what is “intrinsic evil”. I do not reside in Vatican City. I reside in the United States of America. And not providing contraceptive coverage since they can be needed for health care would violate my conscience and religious freedom. The bottom line is this earth is an imperfect world. Balancing rights and freedoms in a society of plural beliefs can be difficult and is not always black and white. Not everyone is always going to be pleased with every law of the land in which they live.

 

[JimG]

The American people did vote. I don’t understand why Catholics can’t seem to understand though that not every American agrees with the Catholic faith on what is “intrinsic evil”. I do not reside in Vatican City. I reside in the United States of America. And not providing contraceptive coverage since they can be needed for health care would violate my conscience and religious freedom. The bottom line is this earth is an imperfect world. Balancing rights and freedoms in a society of plural beliefs can be difficult and is not always black and white. Not everyone is always going to be pleased with every law of the land in which they live.

The bottom line is that the federal government should not be telling employers whether and what kind of health insurance they must provide. The federal government should not be mandating that any employer must provide insurance coverage which violates his religion or go out of business. If freedom of religion means anythng, it means the freedom to practice one’s religion. And the US Conference of Catholic Bishops agrees.