Good Bye Crime-Law & Privacy, Hello Military-Ruled World (about Terrorism as a Military Excuse)

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francisca

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The recent development after Paris attack: leaders of the world gather discussing intelligence coop, war, and so on… Since when armed criminals (ie two brothers in Paris attack) get the authoirity to change the whole world?

In my opinion, ISIS/ ISIL/ DAESH in middle east and Paris Attack are two different matters, despite they claim “organization” and religion as their excuse.

Military intelligence use terrorism as an excuse to spy on innocent targets without any warrants, detain civilians without trial, our privacy information is so prone to crime because our gadgets are designed with spying-policy in mind. Our privacy is insecure because spying on innocents are allowed.

It is not impossible to create completely secure gadgets. It’s a matter of whether the policy makers allow gadget designers to do so. Rightnow they are not allowed to do so. By who? By US Military. All encryption methods are ruled under US policy. All encryption are up to the number of digits allowed by US. Individual privacy is less important than “national security” aka “military victory”.

No morality neither ethic principle can give any right to a military to deal with civilians (even if they are armed and dangerous) in a military way. Intercepting innocent people is a crime in itself.

We are creating a military-ruled world, where the strong dictates.

And here is the morality to uphold: “THOU SHALL NOT STEAL (INFORMATION)” !

Last year I was trying to become property agent. Before long I realized that if you are gadget savvy, you can steal others contacts which means clients. Even our chats/ text messages are not secure. And who to blame? US Intelligence policy on allowing immorality to happen all the time. Btw, I quit without closing any deal. I knew property agency was not my fate.

I receives anonymous messages/ missed calls from around the world. and I never have got any social media whatsoever. People are curious about my email address and so on. I fear gadgets. In the past (back in 2002-2005 in my old address) my home phone rings in the middle of the night (2-4am) everynight when I was fast asleep. When I picked it up it was either wrong number or the person spoke in foreign laguage that I dont understand. At first I didn’t know who persecuted me. I bought a fax machine and activate it at night. so that persecution stopped.

If we have no privacy, we can’t have freedom of speech neither security. It is all about the military winning the war.

If I speak against some immorality, others who disagrees with me-- groups of activists, individual haters, or even terrorists-- they are able to persecute me in my own home, simply because of opinion difference. My ISP can read my forum threads. If my privacy is not important, some of the ISP staffs may have extreme difference of opinion with me and persecute me using my own phone, If they are an organization, defenseless me have to be dealing with the terrorists extremists myself in my own home & phone. And the thing is this: they own my phone, I don’t have it. They haven’t steal money from me because they know if they do, that will be the end. So these people are secret activists. So you see, US military power abuse trickle down to “whoever have power, they use that power to dictate”.

Good bye crime-law & privacy, welcome military-ruled world where dictators (power abuse, economic giants, unfair activism, invisible crime, terrorism) thrives.
 
Since the king sent his men to spy on the peasants to make sure no one was plotting against him, or grumbling too much, we’ve had no privacy. Shortly after the first telephone, radio or transatlantic cable, “national security” meant the military made sure all could be tapped. Things have just sped up to keep track of all the latest electronic communications devices, and “bugging” devices are more complex now too.

“There’s no money in peace.” Who benefits?

Ed
 
It is also immoral to use drone to execute people without trial, even if he is a dangerous armed criminal. All people deserves a fair trial, even a former nazi.

If a military capable to spy on a soldier using drone, then it is capable to arrest him without killing him. If you can’t win your enemy because of international law prevents you and/or economic reasons prevents you to put your boots on the ground, so then you use easy way: you shoot people using drones in their winning territory, I am sure this situation is an unfair violation of international law in some way and desputably a war crime. The law of use of drone has yet been drafted. I am sure there should be restriction to it. How to use it morally both in war and in peace.

Assad is a bad person because he bought european weapon instead of signing US-weapon-franchise! Quite similar a story with Sadam Hussein story. It looks bad on US military in the way all of these started with W. Bush marched to Iraq without any proper paper work on his hand and still insist that US military on the side of justice. W Bush still sleeps on his bed, after doing the attrocity of refusing UN recommendation. UN should put sanction on US Military!

I am not defending ISIS. I am defending a moral way to win a good war against terrorism. If you are in the wrong you are not supposed to win. God forbid. Therefore, the way you win matters.

As a neutral person, I prefer a ballance of power as compared to one immoral military rule the whole world. Somebody should teach the strongest military in the whole world some moral lesson.
 
francisca said:
All military in the whole world will benefit from capability to dictate

Long live dictatorship !!
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Da! Comrade. Oh wait, the Soviet Union fell…

Ed 🙂

I’ll have to take down my Che Guevara poster.
 
francisca said:
It is also immoral to use drone to execute people without trial, even if he is a dangerous armed criminal. All people deserves a fair trial, even a former nazi.

If a military capable to spy on a soldier using drone, then it is capable to arrest him without killing him. If you can’t win your enemy because of international law prevents you and/or economic reasons prevents you to put your boots on the ground, so then you use easy way: you shoot people using drones in their winning territory, I am sure this situation is an unfair violation of international law in some way and desputably a war crime. The law of use of drone has yet been drafted. I am sure there should be restriction to it. How to use it morally both in war and in peace.

Assad is a bad person because he bought european weapon instead of signing US-weapon-franchise! Quite similar a story with Sadam Hussein story. It looks bad on US military in the way all of these started with W. Bush marched to Iraq without any proper paper work on his hand and still insist that US military on the side of justice. W Bush still sleeps on his bed, after doing the attrocity of refusing UN recommendation. UN should put sanction on US Military!

I am not defending ISIS. I am defending a moral way to win a good war against terrorism. If you are in the wrong you are not supposed to win. God forbid. Therefore, the way you win matters.

As a neutral person, I prefer a ballance of power as compared to one immoral military rule the whole world. Somebody should teach the strongest military in the whole world some moral lesson.
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Should the allies have given every Nazi soldier in mid-combat a “fair trial” before shooting back? Striking with a drone is no different then striking with a bullet.
 
francisca said:
The recent development after Paris attack: leaders of the world gather discussing intelligence coop, war, and so on… Since when armed criminals (ie two brothers in Paris attack) get the authoirity to change the whole world?

In my opinion, ISIS/ ISIL/ DAESH in middle east and Paris Attack are two different matters, despite they claim “organization” and religion as their excuse.

Military intelligence use terrorism as an excuse to spy on innocent targets without any warrants, detain civilians without trial, our privacy information is so prone to crime because our gadgets are designed with spying-policy in mind. Our privacy is insecure because spying on innocents are allowed.

It is not impossible to create completely secure gadgets. It’s a matter of whether the policy makers allow gadget designers to do so. Rightnow they are not allowed to do so. By who? By US Military. All encryption methods are ruled under US policy. All encryption are up to the number of digits allowed by US. Individual privacy is less important than “national security” aka “military victory”.

No morality neither ethic principle can give any right to a military to deal with civilians (even if they are armed and dangerous) in a military way. Intercepting innocent people is a crime in itself.

We are creating a military-ruled world, where the strong dictates.

And here is the morality to uphold: “THOU SHALL NOT STEAL (INFORMATION)” !

Last year I was trying to become property agent. Before long I realized that if you are gadget savvy, you can steal others contacts which means clients. Even our chats/ text messages are not secure. And who to blame? US Intelligence policy on allowing immorality to happen all the time. Btw, I quit without closing any deal. I knew property agency was not my fate.

I receives anonymous messages/ missed calls from around the world. and I never have got any social media whatsoever. People are curious about my email address and so on. I fear gadgets. In the past (back in 2002-2005 in my old address) my home phone rings in the middle of the night (2-4am) everynight when I was fast asleep. When I picked it up it was either wrong number or the person spoke in foreign laguage that I dont understand. At first I didn’t know who persecuted me. I bought a fax machine and activate it at night. so that persecution stopped.

If we have no privacy, we can’t have freedom of speech neither security. It is all about the military winning the war.

If I speak against some immorality, others who disagrees with me-- groups of activists, individual haters, or even terrorists-- they are able to persecute me in my own home, simply because of opinion difference. My ISP can read my forum threads. If my privacy is not important, some of the ISP staffs may have extreme difference of opinion with me and persecute me using my own phone, If they are an organization, defenseless me have to be dealing with the terrorists extremists myself in my own home & phone. And the thing is this: they own my phone, I don’t have it. They haven’t steal money from me because they know if they do, that will be the end. So these people are secret activists. So you see, US military power abuse trickle down to “whoever have power, they use that power to dictate”.

Good bye crime-law & privacy, welcome military-ruled world where dictators (power abuse, economic giants, unfair activism, invisible crime, terrorism) thrives.
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The parish attacks and ISIL are directly related… They committed the attacks. I don’t think a correlation can be any more direct than that.

“Military intelligence” is made up of many individual people working all working on different things, it’s not a dictatorship lead by a single person with everyone under him working for a singular, sole purpose.

The US military is not “out to get you,” or anything similar. I haven’t seen any examples of military leadership using the average Joe’s information against him, and the actual military intelligence officers don’t spend their time in their day-to-day work trying to take away their fellow citizens freedom of speech.

Anything connected to the Internet is not gauranteed to be private or secure no matter how good security is, that’s how it is and how it will always be (atleast in the foreseeable future.)

It would be beneficial to meet someone who is an MI and ask them about what they do.
 
This was the plan all along, thats why we see the militarization of the police, even in small towns, with each new mass shooting, terrorist attack, etc, more and more things are taken away, if it keeps going at this rate, in 20 years, you will have to carry ‘your papers’ whenever taking a walk to the store, accounting for your whereabouts at all times, surveillance cameras going up in more and more places too, eventually no place will be truly private.

I have to laugh whenever I hear politicians telling people "we are not going to let the terrorists win, we will not change our lives’, but then, the very next day, there are so much LE presence, it looks a military platoon, they dont realize they are doing the very thing the terrorists set out for, they are patient, they know after so many attacks/shootings, they will disarm the public, and put up so much security, the US wont be the US anymore.

Also, so many LE officials instructing people to call in if it looks suspicious, no matter what, that is disturbing to me.
 
Here i n the USA we resist any form of “big brotherism”. We like our privacy. that is why we are the freest nation on earth and hopefully will continue so.
 
eazyduzit said:
Here i n the USA we resist any form of “big brotherism”. We like our privacy. that is why we are the freest nation on earth and hopefully will continue so.
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Really?

Why then did so many people get so upset when Edward Snowden revealed the secret spying the US Govt has been doing on all of us over the years?

If this dirty little secret was taking place, its a pretty good bet, there are many other things being kept from the public as well.

If something like this has been revealed to the public decades or even centuries ago, we would have seen armed mobs in the streets heading towards the whitehouse, but sadly, in our times, people have been ‘conditioned’ to take the Govts side, even when it goes completely against the Constitution.
 
mikekle said:
This was the plan all along, thats why we see the militarization of the police, even in small towns, with each new mass shooting, terrorist attack, etc, more and more things are taken away, if it keeps going at this rate, in 20 years, you will have to carry ‘your papers’ whenever taking a walk to the store, accounting for your whereabouts at all times, surveillance cameras going up in more and more places too, eventually no place will be truly private.

I have to laugh whenever I hear politicians telling people "we are not going to let the terrorists win, we will not change our lives’, but then, the very next day, there are so much LE presence, it looks a military platoon, they dont realize they are doing the very thing the terrorists set out for, they are patient, they know after so many attacks/shootings, they will disarm the public, and put up so much security, the US wont be the US anymore.

Also, so many LE officials instructing people to call in if it looks suspicious, no matter what, that is disturbing to me.
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Law enforcement is about protecting the people, including their own families. Military Intelligence exists for two reasons: 1) To prevent technological surprise (which began during World War II, and 2) Threat assessment and appropriate response scenarios.

I would like someone to list the specific privacies they wish protected. If you are not engaged in criminal or terrorist activities, what are you worried about? They won’t break down your door unless they have reasonable cause. So, for those involved in criminal activity, members of organized crime and terrorists, yes, I would want law enforcement to not disrupt my marijuana grow house activity, my distribution and sale of illegal drugs or my prostitution enterprise and other activities. Watch out for a recorded message on your phone that tells you that you owe the IRS money and to call their number right away or face legal action. The IRS scam line is backed up with so many reports, you can only submit one online.

It would be wrong to spot a suspicious aircraft, say a single engine type, performing odd aerial maneuvers near an airport. Should something happen and no one said anything beforehand, then what?

Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Law enforcement is about protecting the people, including their own families. Military Intelligence exists for two reasons: 1) To prevent technological surprise (which began during World War II, and 2) Threat assessment and appropriate response scenarios.

I would like someone to list the specific privacies they wish protected.** If you are not engaged in criminal or terrorist activities, what are you worried about? They won’t break down your door unless they have reasonable cause.** So, for those involved in criminal activity, members of organized crime and terrorists, yes, I would want law enforcement to not disrupt my marijuana grow house activity, my distribution and sale of illegal drugs or my prostitution enterprise and other activities. Watch out for a recorded message on your phone that tells you that you owe the IRS money and to call their number right away or face legal action. The IRS scam line is backed up with so many reports, you can only submit one online.

It would be wrong to spot a suspicious aircraft, say a single engine type, performing odd aerial maneuvers near an airport. Should something happen and no one said anything beforehand, then what?

Ed
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This is the attitude that makes us lose our civil rights.

When one group loses their rights, we all do.
 
frangiuliano115 said:
This is the attitude that makes us lose our civil rights.

When one group loses their rights, we all do.
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My thoughts exactly.

Remember the number of people who fought and died for us to even have the Constitution we have, if they saw fit to put safeties against such things in this document, there was a reason for it.
 
edwest2 said:
I’m confused. No individual citizen has the right to break the law or to seek the destruction of others.

Ed
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Almost missed this.

This is the problem. The many and good people have to pay for the few and dishonest ones.

But when they pass a law making it legal to break down that door to get a criminal that’s inside, the law will also apply to YOU. Even if you’re a law abiding citizen and have done nothing wrong. Because mistakes happen. You’ve never heard this in the news, for instance? Mistaken identity, mistaken house. People scared to death, dragged out of their beds.

So it has to be done to get the drug traffiker that lives next door, but the honest persons in the wrong house have also lost their liberty. There are many examples of this. If you grasp the concept, you’ll be paying more attention to this from now on. Taxes is another perfect example. We want to do the right thing, the govt needs to be able to spend, but the rates are getting higher and higher and we’re having more and more problems supporting ourselves and our families. This is encrouchment upon our liberty to work and retain the money we have earned for our self-sufficiency. I could go on and on.

Here’s a good poem that I learned in high school, back in the dark ages, but have never forgotten - thank goodness for Professor Google!:

(1892–1984) was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.

Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Hope this clarifies.

Fran
 
I’ll answer the question about the use of drone first.

If a soldier who shoot somebody using a drone, the target can shoot back to the drone, but the shooter (drone controller)-- is sitting on comfy chair, can’t be harmed. Drone can follow a target for days. It can wait indefinitely in places impossible by humans to hide. If a military capable to follow a target with drone, theoretically it also capable to arrest the target instead of killing him. The incapability to arrest the target may come from international law that forbid him to go there and/ or it’s own economic calculation. Therefore it is unfair to shoot a target who live in the land by a foreign power in this manner, especially if this foreign power has attacked the land before, and pulled back.

Can the queen of England send a drone to shoot US president? She has pulled back her army a long time ago. Now she decides that US belong to the queen. So she secretly place her drones in washington dc area and shoot whoever rebels. If she capable to do so, does it also mean that she is permitted to do so? Why?

If the argument is IS in middle east commits war crime/ genocide, then stop them to do what they are doing without trying to meddle with local politics. Do it neutrally, as police-job does. Nope. Can’t be done so. Military always incessantly trying to win for its own interest. The delay is because “Assad need to be pulled down first”. So the issue now is no longer about IS only. Saving the victims isn’t the priority here. The delay is because of the military and politic talks.

The IS issue in Syria now is like this: your neighbours next door-- husband and wife-- is quarreling. So you go to their house offer help (weapons) to the husband (represent Assad-Sunni) and build alliance between you and the husband to get his wife (IS- who is also Sunni) into submission. But then the husband after received your help, he decided not to comply with your instructions. So now you quarrel with the husband too. So the husband decides to build alliace with other people. Now you are not in good terms with both husband (Assad) and wife (IS). So now what do you do? you want both of them to be thrown out from their house, and you are not even the owner of the house.

Iraq’s Sunni- Shiah issue is also similar: husband and wife case, their own land, local aspiration supposedly to decide and not weapon agreement between US-Russia. Neither intelligent coop. Anybody concern about the victims? How long will the military talks/ politics will delay the rescue?

Paris Attack is different matter, but it is used as excuse to keep meddling with husband-wife issue in Iraq and Syria.

Paris Attack is about religious fanatism inspired by “the bravery/ heroism” of IS in Iraq/ Syria. The “glory of war” is given to them by the way religious fanatims is handled militarily. It supposedly a Police job to handle civilians armed crimes, not the military. (911 for example, can’t be investigated further because it was handled only by the military. Crime-law method was being ignored so now we can’t know the truth. We are not supposed to know the truth according to military intelligence. Now Paris attack is used as excuse too)

The second time boots touch the ground, it should not be the same mistake: You shouldn’t march there, meddle with local politics, and leave. That will be repeating the same mistake twice. You gotta go there, stay long term, as neutral police- not as soldiers, to get them cease fire- not to sell them weapons, police them in a period like 30years, 50years or 100years, re-build what you destroyed. Establish peace. If you can’t do this, then… shoot them all with drones? C’mon… doing nothing is better than that. if this is the way to go (genocide for genocide, an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, tick for tack), then we know now that there is no peace. God’s mercy is nothing but a lie in our hearts, and IS & terrors are what we deserve. Military-ruled world is what we want.

Another question should be answered is this: should all people give up their privacy to serve military ambition? Is my privacy less important than national security? Gov interest? Institutions interest? Companies interests? In my opinion, my privacy is more important than all other things. A good gov/ institution/ company is the one who respect individual privacy and uphold each individuals privacy right and security.
 
Help them rebuild their life: the houses, schools, hospitals, feed them… Instead of spending billions on weapons and military intelligence, use all resources to rebuild what was destroyed.

And that is how IS & terrorism will be defeated.
 
*I am sure this situation is an unfair violation of international law in some way and desputably a war crime. The law of use of drone has yet been drafted. I am sure there should be restriction to it. How to use it morally both in war and in peace. *

There is a law that exists. It is a higher law than man made laws.

The Catechism states what constitutes valid use of arms(forget the paragraph number, sorry). It states that no nation can use “evils and disorders” greater than the opposition. So in this case a drone is an advanced technology that their enemy does not possess. So for the time being the Church considers the US in the wrong.

In fact the US is wrong on other points of Divine law as well.

But I think you have a point in principle. Let’s take for instance Palestine.

Palestine was a possession of the British. It’s people were not an administrative people busied by paper work and comforted by a high standard of living, that allowed meddling in the affairs of others, has the West was. It was enough for these people that they had a country, knew it’s defined boarders and they went on with their nomadic life as peaceful Bedouins. But a peoples, the Jews, not a nation, wanted a country of their own, so the British told them they could settle in Palestine.

We need to stop and determine the justification of what just happened. We know a country could be a possession of another, or in this case the latter being a parliamentary monarchist hybrid system. These systems don’t use a democratic decision making process. The British people, thru parliament, wish to have something for the common good, so the King/Queen had better follow up with allowing it, the morality of it be damned. After all, Israel needs a nation. (Even here, true traditional Israeli radical groups of that time disagreed with this take over policy).

So we can see an age old rule being breached, and that is,** No authority should be allowed to decide to overrun their possessed nation/colony with a mass influx of people**. This rule should be taken out of the rule of the authority and placed in the vote of the resident subjects.The reason is because no other social action is a disruptive force on an established nation. It endangers the culture and very foundation of the collective, as well as cause practical disruption in the areas such as shared expenses, like health systems,etc. It throws the food distribution and agriculture systems in disorder, land title problems, and many other problems that require decades to adjust.

So to return to our history of Palestine from this point on, we find the Palestianians slowly realizing what was happening to their land. The Jews, just out of a war, and with world wide sympathy still in the mindset of all, got to receive a lot of aid and weapons. The rest is history. The plea of Palestine falling on deaf ears of comfortable nations. The United Nations, the pet of the United States, pressed to pass sanction of the policy. Whenever there is a lull in the war, the people consider it a peace. When the Palestinians continue the next stage in the battle of a long drawn out just war, it’s as if it is a new declaration of war against Israel.

No one desires to understand the cause of the effects of the chaos in the world today.

The Palestinians need to have their lands returned to them. Britain had no right, nor did it truly represent, the will of the Palestinian people in this case, and it knew it. The Isreali case was an exceptional case that needed to be addressed as such.
 
francisca said:
Help them rebuild their life: the houses, schools, hospitals, feed them… Instead of spending billions on weapons and military intelligence, use all resources to rebuild what was destroyed.

And that is how IS & terrorism will be defeated.
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Is your theory that terrorists become terrorists because they come from poor conditions, and are protesting? I think that idea has been debunked, though I can’t cite quotes. Many terrorists come from wealthy or comfortable middle class homes – look at Jihadi John, who grew up in London and attended the University of Westminster, then worked as an IT salesman. Something besides poverty and illiteracy causes terrorists. Sin, maybe?

.
 
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