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fix
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There is that and more…
Good Grief It happened again in the Diocese of Rochester, NY
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contemplative
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The following is from Story of a Soul (The autobiography of St. Therese of Lisieux) Third edition by John Clarke, O.C.D page 122Yes, and I will make this plea for prayers for our diocese repeatedly. We need many prayers. I have not said any thing disrespectful. Just a blanket ( heavey duty wool blanket)statement for prayers.
Thanks
The second experience I had relates to priests. Having never lived close to them, I was not able to understand the principal of the Reform of Carmel. To pray for sinners attracted me. To pray for the souls of priests whom I believed to be as pure as crystal seemed puzzling to me!
I understood my vocation in Italy and that’s not far in search of such useful knowledge. I lived in the company of many saintly priests for a month and I learned that, the dignity raises them above the angels; they are nevertheless weak and fragile men. If holy priests*, whom Jesus in His Gospel calls the "salt of the earth, " show in their conduct their extreme need for prayers, what is to be said of those who are tepid? Didn’t Jesus say too: * "If the salt loses its savor, wherewith will it be salted?”
How beautiful is the vocation, 0 Mother, which has as its aim the preservation of the salt destined for souls! This is Carmel’s vocation since the sole purpose of our prayers and sacrifices is to be the *apostle *of the *apostles. *We are to pray for them while they are preaching to souls through their words and especially their example.
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Yonnie
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I don’t know anything about this priest or this diocese, but we need to remember that in this country we are innocent until proven guilty. Just because someone is arrested and even charged with a crime doesn’t mean they are guilty. If this priest is guilty he should be prosicuted to the full extent of the law.
In this current climate the media is all to ready to try and convict Catholic priests without a trial. I for one am praying for him and this diocese.
In this current climate the media is all to ready to try and convict Catholic priests without a trial. I for one am praying for him and this diocese.
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contemplative
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At any rate, pray for the priest and diocese. Stay tuned and more will be posted as the story developes.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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And last I heard that is the case in Rochester.
If a parish priest does something, you can not blame the bishop, especially if you do not go to the bishop to report anything.
Anyways. Women giveing homilies is not heterodox. Its a matter of discipline.
As for this uncharitable comment…
I just look to the source.
If you have specific claims of heterodoxy then make them and take them to the proper authorities.
No you did not just ask for prayers for the diocese.OH NO! I’ve asked for prayers! ( gasp) Blasted Jrabs asked for prayers for her diocese again.
You said…
This was more than just asking for prayers. It was a slight against your bishop with no facts.
I am not a fan of the bishop of Rochester, but I am also no fan of those who run around questioning the orthodoxy of a Bishop with no facts. Until proven otherwise he is a Bishop of the Church and that deserves respect. This is not clericalism. If you have a fact of a crime then state it. You are not calling a spade a spade.
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contemplative
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A spade is a spade.
Do you have any comments about this March 1997 Homilydelivered by Bishop Matthew ClarK to 1100 Gay & Lesbians and thier supporters?
This Homily and setting seems liberal and unorthodox enough for me. What do you think? Do you want more?
How can I prove to you that I and many others have complained to the Bishop about women giving homilies on Sunday. Nothing is ever done about it. What proof do I have for you other than my word?
Enough about Bishop Matthew Clark. My question is how many more priests like Sewar will surface in the future. Folks here have plenty to pray about.
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contemplative
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↑This is not happening here.
**This is more like it. **↓
i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/ginnyroc/animleonineprayers.gif
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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I quickly skimmed the homily and yes it seems a bit liberal but I do not see anything that is unothodox in it.
And its from 1997. During my years here I have seen the bishop come a long way.
Ok, well I know for a fact that it has stopped at one parish and it had never gotten started at another. Actually that is the parish I usually go to. They still have the altar railing and the majority kneel to recieve and it is about 50/50 on the tongue/in the hand.
I was told by people who work for the diocese that the offical policy was that if you ask the bishop’s office if you can have a woman give the homily the answer would be no, so don’t ask. About a year ago I had heard that the bishop has said that this should stop now and that if you (a parish priest) wants someone other than clergy to give a talk that the priest should give a short homily and then to allow them to give a reflection. That is they are/were working around the rules but again that is not being heterodox just not following the rules.
Yes this is true. But you can not blame this on the Bishop and that is what these sort of pleas make it look like.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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It is one thing to ask for prayers for the Diocese of Rochester or for its bishop.
What I object to is the “pray that we get a more orthodox bishop”.
That can be seen in a number of ways, one of them that you want something to happen to the current bishop, but I know that is not the case.
This bishop was placed here by Pope John Paul II, if he is unorthodox in any way, then it was with the consent of the Pope. So some of the blame must go that way too.
What I object to is the “pray that we get a more orthodox bishop”.
That can be seen in a number of ways, one of them that you want something to happen to the current bishop, but I know that is not the case.
This bishop was placed here by Pope John Paul II, if he is unorthodox in any way, then it was with the consent of the Pope. So some of the blame must go that way too.
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contemplative
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felra
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“…I do not see anything that is unothodox in it.” …you have got to be kidding, right? How then do you define unorthodox. This sermon is more along the lines of heresy. The Bishop is confirming these poor brothers and sisters in Christ in their gravely sinful lifestyles at the peril of their eternal souls. Unbelievable and no excuse for such an abuse of his ordination vows.
“…I have seen the bishop come a long way.” …a long way in what direction? Has the Bishop publically renounced (let alone make a show of repentance/amends) the statements in his heretical sermon to our brothers and sisters in Christ whom he confirmed in their sinful lifestyle and the very personhood identity lens of “gay and lesbian brothers and sisters”.
Here is an excerpt from that sermon:
Mass for gay and lesbian Catholics, families and friends
Bishop Matthew Clark’s Homily
March 1, 1997 (Transcribed)
To my brothers and sisters, gay and lesbian brothers and sisters, …
I, my mail, my conversations are filled with what I can judge to be unfortunate presumptions about gay and lesbian people, a lot of stereotyping in a very negative way and a lot of lack of information that all of us need to have if we are to understand one another in ways that I really believe that God wants us to know one another’s hearts.
I think, for example, of how we all need to be as much in touch as we can possibly be with biblical scholarship as it applies to this question. Because I’m afraid the bible is used in ways that are not life-giving, but destructive as it’s quoted about gay and lesbian people. I think we need to learn from the human sciences the research of which has yielded a lot of new information that I believe we have not as yet integrated into our knowledge and value systems and which we do not appreciate as elements which can alter honestly held but incorrect assumptions about other persons in our community.
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fix
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felra said:
If one goes to the diocese newspaper web site and reads the bishop’s 1997 publication on the exercise on pastoral authority one sees even more questioning of Church teachings.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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felra said:
As I said, I skimmed the homily and now that you point that out I can see it but again that is from 1997 and seems the Holy Father has done nothing about it, neither this one nor the last one. I am not the authority to judge orthodoxy.
Since 1997 Bishop Clark has removed a priest and upheld the fireing of people in positions at that parish. This priest are removed for blessing same sex unions, inviting all to recieve the Eucharist, and allowing a woman (pastoral administrator who was one of the ones fired) to elevate the Chalice at Mass and allowing her to wear a stole.
He has also stood in public against the Death Penalty and wore his clerics while doing so which got him in some hot water as the local press thought he should not be dressed that way.
Call to Action opened an office in Rochester and the bishop refused to meet with them.
His stand against the ordination of women, the woman that was fired in the part above was ordained a “priest” with another woman being ordained a “deacon” in Nov. 2001. The bishop wrote a letter to all who worked for the Diocese and let them know that they were forbidden to attend this ordaination and let them know that people would be taking pictures of those who were attending and they would be checked. In Feb. of 2002 the woman “deacon” was ordained a “preist” and the bishop again forbid anyone working for the diocese to attend.
His recent change, as I have been told by certain people in the diocease, on non-clergy giving Homilies.
Again with 1997. That was 8 years ago.
But this thread is not about the Bishop of Rochester.
I apologize for my actions in hijacking this thread.
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contemplative
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Don’t apologize. It seems to be a natural part of the conversation but I think at this point enough has been said about Bishop Matthew Clark. I will say one thing. In the past year I have slowly learned of some Saints who were repeatedly trodden upon by heirarchy in the Church. These Saints had such great love and obedience to God that they remained silent and accepted what happened. One obedient soul I think of now is St. Padre Pio. St. Padre Pio didn’t get on the internet and start blasting priests or bishops. I don’t think we should here. This takes great discipline and complete trust in God.
Really I think enough has been said about the Bishop.
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fix
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Last year there was a VOTF meeting in town and Clark supported it. There is much more that can be posted.
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felra
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felra
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Please don’t under estimate yourself. You can know a tree by it’s fruit. Open, respectful, critical dialogue is edifying and healthy for the Church and one’s spiritual life.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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Yes there is, I said he has come a long way.
I did not say that he has come all the way.
Along the continuum, with Call to Action and Catholic For a Free Choice, VOTF isn’t the worst thing.
But again, there are issues but he is the bishop and to pray for his demise (which asking for prayers for a more orthodox bishop when there is currently no vacancy) is, IMHO, not the right thing to do.
Also, to bring this up in threads that have nothing to do with it, is also misguided.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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So if I am to do this, then what must I think of the pope who appointed him and allowed him to stay in this position as bishop? and then what am I to think of the Church that does the same?
It is a slippery slope.
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fix
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A distinction without a difference.
No one has said they are praying for his demise.
I guess that is a procedural point. Venial at best.
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