good points of islam

[Byzantine_Wolf]

do you now know why I use this guy… :takeoff: when talking about planten’s posts??? I mean, he can’t even click on your links to review them!

Planten’s take on history is really out there… oh oh, I gotta do this… :takeoff:

I’m more amazed by the fact he claims he never knew of a guy by that name when…there are threads…in the forum…showing…they debated…

I guess there’s some vast conspiracy here at CAF to forge entire threads to make planten look bad.

 

[jakasaki]

do you now know why I use this guy… :takeoff: when talking about planten’s posts??? I mean, he can’t even click on your links to review them!

Planten’s take on history is really out there… oh oh, I gotta do this… :takeoff:

I love that dude AGabriel… love him… I get a kick everytime you use him…

Now… ahem… back to the “good points of islam”…

 

[Agabriel]

I love that dude AGabriel… love him… I get a kick everytime you use him…

Now… ahem… back to the “good points of islam”…

ok ok - I am thinking… hhmmm, let me see… good points of Islam… well, hhmmm… I can’t think of any… adieu adieu.

Yes, I will pray for our fellow Muslims, and everyone - including me. And yes, planten is included in those prayers.

 

[jakasaki]

ok ok - I am thinking… hhmmm, let me see… good points of Islam… well, hhmmm… I can’t think of any… adieu adieu.

Yes, I will pray for our fellow Muslims, and everyone - including me. And yes, planten is included in those prayers.

Right now I’m **praying **for all of those people in Iran seeking their freedom and democracy.

 

[planten]

I’m more amazed by the fact he claims he never knew of a guy by that name when…there are threads…in the forum…showing…they debated…

I guess there’s some vast conspiracy here at CAF to forge entire threads to make planten look bad.

**B W, No. No. There may have been some one as samaan. I do not remember. I cannot keep track of all people here, specially if he/she left the forum more than a year ago. What use is remembering some one. sanaan must be same as other catholics here, no better no worse. They are all samaan.

If I did not reply to these present samaan’s then they can object. But I am replying to all these Catholics fully with full power. In return they have nothing except idle talk or irrelevant matter. Algabriel has post above without anything meaningful.

I and other Muslims have learnt a lot about Catholicism. I am not here to distract any one. WE know what Algabriel is doing, going to colleges. We Muslims should also be allowed to go in the temples (churches) of the Catholics to know what they are teaching there. There is some one who wrote about the doctrination of the christian children from the birth and in church and in schools and colleges. Is that fair??

The christian boys and girls are taught that Jesus is God. that there are three gods in one and one in three. That Jesus died on the cross for the sins of others. That he got up from the dead after three days. Such things re fed into the minds of the poor christian boys/girls which could be very harmful to their free thinking and future life.

Now about Sedonaman, who gave a bad translation of the Quran. See below:

Qur’an of Medina 8:12: Then your Lord spoke to His angels and said, “I will be with you. Give strength to the believers. I will send terror into the unbelievers

**’ hearts, cut off their heads and even the tips of their fingers!”

That word “unbelievers” is entirely wrong translation of the word “Kaafir”. Kaafir is a hostile non-believer who is bent upon war against Islam. He niether believes in Allah and Muhammad nor does he allow any one to believe. He/she is an open enemy of Islam. Kaafir is not a peaceful person.
So after passing on this information, i give you the right translation of the verse 8:12 of Quran as follows:

Qur’an of Medina 8:12: Then your Lord spoke to His angels and said, “I will be with you. Give strength to the believers. I will send terror into the hearts of the disbelieving hostile enemies of Islam, cut off their heads and even the tips of their fingers!”

 

[libbybeth]

We are human, so our understanding of God will always be limited. Islam does not lead to an understanding of God. Islam leads away from understanding God. Islam misleads people about who God is. It leads to confusion about God.

Yes, it is misleading as it deliberately restricts the revelation sent by God himself. However, those people who are Muslims will include people who are searching for God; we do see some conversions to Christianity, and some Muslims who will enter conversation with us. We should always give reasons for our faith - Peter. Who knows, the things that we say may be the little seeds that enable a flourishing at a time we do not know. All we can do is practice our faith, trust in the Lord, and not back off from asserting the truth, especially to Muslims, who do not have the whole truth

.

You are right, it would be amazing if God would move among the Muslims and remove the ignorance which has shackled them.

If Islam is what I’m saying it is, why would we attempt to find redeeming qualities in it? Sure it has some things in it that will appear good on the surface, but they are there to lure people in. As we admire those things, will we become misled?

No, we should not be misled. We have been advised by Paul to hold fast to the things which we have been taught and which have been handed to us; it is up to us to find common ground with other seekers, including Muslims, and to announce the truth to them. Don’t forget, Jesus took the Samaritan woman from her own starting point so that in the end she ran to tell the other villagers that she had found the Messiah; Paul in Athens started from fact that the Athenians had a statue to the unknown God, and announced the good news from that point. With Muslims, we need to start from the basis that they have a need for God, otherwise they would not believe in Allah.

. We have access to the God of the universe.

Yes; we are so lucky. We also need not to become complacent. Let us share this access with others, even if the seed does not blossom until years later. Muslims believe in a creator; that’s a starting point. It is up to Christians to rectify their misinformation, under the Grace and teaching of God.

 

[sedonaman]

**B W, No. No. There may have been some one as samaan. I do not remember. I cannot keep track of all people here, specially if he/she left the forum more than a year ago.
**

One of samaan’s last post was last May 7:

Thank you!

**
What use is remembering some one. sanaan must be same as other catholics here, no better no worse. They are all samaan.
**

Thank you. I take that as a compliment.

**

That word “unbelievers” is entirely wrong translation of the word “Kaafir”. Kaafir is a hostile non-believer who is bent upon war against Islam. … So after passing on this information, i give you the right translation of the verse 8:12 of Quran as follows:

Qur’an of Medina 8:12: Then your Lord spoke to His angels and said, “I will be with you. Give strength to the believers. I will send terror into the hearts of the disbelieving hostile enemies of Islam**, cut off their heads and even the tips of their fingers!”

OK. Have it your way [for formatting purposes, I will use “**dheoI” for disbelieving hostile enemies of Islam]:

Violent . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Peaceful​

OT [violent, i.e., an eye for an eye, etc.] – – – > NT [Love your enemies, etc.]
Qur’an of Medina [slay the [COLOR=“Red”]dheoI, etc.] <– – – Qur’an of Mecca [leave [COLOR=“Red”]dheoI with dignity]

– – – time – – – >​

So how does that change my thesis that Islam is a retrograde teaching that justifies and rewards a man for reverting to his feral nature, as opposed to the Bible which encourages man to aspire to a higher level?

 

[sedonaman]

We have something similar to MOPE: “MVIC” for “members of the victim industrial complex.”

 

[Aydan]

if this is too off-topic let me know and I will start a new thread but I just read another thread about a Catholic who is considering converting to Islam even after reading the entire thread I’m so struggling to understand how a Catholic could be drawn to Islam. I’ve also seen several videos about former Catholics who have converted to Islam. I was attracted to Islam before becoming Catholic but now that I understand what it means to be Catholic I no longer find Islam to be attractive. I just cannot put my head around what could make a person go from Catholicism to Islam. Any thoughts on this? Do you think it has to do with any of the good points of Islam?

 

[planten]

ok ok - I am thinking… hhmmm, let me see… good points of Islam… well, hhmmm… I can’t think of any… adieu adieu.

Yes, I will pray for our fellow Muslims, and everyone - including me. And yes, planten is included in those prayers.

** Agabriel, your prayers are no use to any one, even yourself. First of all you are not sincere in your prayers for Muslims. Secondly, you do not pray to the right diety. Your belief of god is not correct.**

 

[Agabriel]

**B W, No. No. There may have been some one as samaan. I do not remember. I cannot keep track of all people here, specially if he/she left the forum more than a year ago. What use is remembering some one. sanaan must be same as other catholics here, no better no worse. They are all samaan.

If I did not reply to these present samaan’s then they can object. But I am replying to all these Catholics fully with full power. In return they have nothing except idle talk or irrelevant matter. Algabriel has post above without anything meaningful.

I and other Muslims have learnt a lot about Catholicism. I am not here to distract any one. WE know what Algabriel is doing, going to colleges. We Muslims should also be allowed to go in the temples (churches) of the Catholics to know what they are teaching there. There is some one who wrote about the doctrination of the christian children from the birth and in church and in schools and colleges. Is that fair??

The christian boys and girls are taught that Jesus is God. that there are three gods in one and one in three. That Jesus died on the cross for the sins of others. That he got up from the dead after three days. Such things re fed into the minds of the poor christian boys/girls which could be very harmful to their free thinking and future life.

Now about Sedonaman, who gave a bad translation of the Quran. See below:

That word “unbelievers” is entirely wrong translation of the word “Kaafir”. Kaafir is a hostile non-believer who is bent upon war against Islam. He niether believes in Allah and Muhammad nor does he allow any one to believe. He/she is an open enemy of Islam. Kaafir is not a peaceful person.
So after passing on this information, i give you the right translation of the verse 8:12 of Quran as follows:

Qur’an of Medina 8:12: Then your Lord spoke to His angels and said, “I will be with you. Give strength to the believers. I will send terror into the hearts of the disbelieving hostile enemies of Islam**, cut off their heads and even the tips of their fingers!”

Go to a Church. I am sure no Catholic, or Christian, will object.

But, the difference between going to a church and going to a University should be noted.

A Church is where people go to pray, to worship. A University is where people go to learn about such things as history, mathematics, reading and writing.

And in Islam, where do you go to learn such things? To your mosque or madrassa? That is why you are so lacking in historical knowledge, planten. You have yet to provide any reference to your historical tales. History is not a imaginary friend, it is based on facts.

What I do when I go to a college, I will find out if they are telling facts or Muslim fairy tales. I might not even know what it is until I go home with what they say in the classroom and I have to do research on it.

I think you look for goblins where there are none.

 

[Agabriel]

** Agabriel, your prayers are no use to any one, even yourself. First of all you are not sincere in your prayers for Muslims. Secondly, you do not pray to the right diety. Your belief of god is not correct.**

Oh, but I thought you said we prayed to the same God? Are you claiming you are wrong now?

I already knew it - I was just waiting for you to finally admit to it.

How do you know I am not sincere? I know that Muslims like to be judge, jury and executioners - but even so, that doesn’t make you correct in your judgement.



Our Father, Who art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
Amen.

 

[Agabriel]

if this is too off-topic let me know and I will start a new thread but I just read another thread about a Catholic who is considering converting to Islam even after reading the entire thread I’m so struggling to understand how a Catholic could be drawn to Islam. I’ve also seen several videos about former Catholics who have converted to Islam. I was attracted to Islam before becoming Catholic but now that I understand what it means to be Catholic I no longer find Islam to be attractive. I just cannot put my head around what could make a person go from Catholicism to Islam. Any thoughts on this? Do you think it has to do with any of the good points of Islam?

There are people who are either weak in their beliefs, who are born a Catholic but never go to Catechism and/or Church, and who at some points in their life think that doing something is ‘cool’.

RIght now we are in a period of our history where people think it is ‘cool’ to follow along with others and what better religion to pick if one wants to be led like sheep to their… well, I won’t go any further with that thought.

I can’t answer to the good points of Islam. Most don’t know any when they are reverting (it is called ‘reverting’, not ‘converting’ to Islam) to Islam, they are told the fairy tales that we hear so often on these threads about Islam. And why they don’t do their own research? I have no idea.

They don’t know the truth about Muhammed but think of him as some really, good holy man. They don’t know about all the bloody Jihads and instead will blame the victims of those Jihads instead of the ones who caused them. It is all twisted up, usually.

But, it is like any cult - to get them aware of what is the truth is very hard.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

B W, No. No. There may have been some one as samaan. I do not remember. I cannot keep track of all people here, specially if he/she left the forum more than a year ago.

You could have clicked on the links provided in the post about samaan, and then have your memory refreshed, and then said, “Oh yeah I remember him!” Of course, in doing so you would have had to have remembered (or admitted) that you used a lot of the similar debate tactics which you’ve now used with me.

If I did not reply to these present samaan’s then they can object. But I am replying to all these Catholics fully with full power. In return they have nothing except idle talk or irrelevant matter. Algabriel has post above without anything meaningful.

I and other Muslims have learnt a lot about Catholicism. I am not here to distract…[etc]

You aren’t addressing anything brought up before. If you wanted to show why I was wrong in my previous post that got the whole samaan conversation started, now would be the time.

The christian boys and girls are taught that Jesus is God. that there are three gods in one and one in three…Such things re fed into the minds of the poor christian boys/girls which could be very harmful to their free thinking and future life. [emphasis mine]

No they are not, because what you have presented is a poor presentation of what the Trinity is. It is most definitely not three “gods” in one. As I said to the very nice Muslim member, Zaki, I would suggest you read the definition of the Trinity as explained by Church Fathers and Christian scholars, rather than what the imams and Koran tell you.

 

[sedonaman]

…

Oh, but I thought you said we prayed to the same God? Are you claiming you are wrong now?

…

Touché, monsieur pussycat !

 

[sedonaman]

…
I just read another thread about a Catholic who is considering converting to Islam even after reading the entire thread I’m so struggling to understand how a Catholic could be drawn to Islam. … Any thoughts on this? Do you think it has to do with any of the good points of Islam?

Nope. Brain damage, as Bill Cosby would say.

 

[sedonaman]

Good points of Islam?

Muslim Countries in Mideast, Africa Lead World in Human Traffic .

Muslim countries in the Middle East and north-central Africa lead the world in human trafficking, according to a new U.S. State Department report. Of the 17 countries that were given the “Tier 3” listing reserved for the worst offenders, nine were Muslim countries or countries with a large Muslim population from these two regions. Tier 3 countries are defined as those “whose governments do not fully comply with the minimum standards" of the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 and "are not making significant efforts to do so.”

The Middle Eastern countries with Tier 3 status are Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Syria. The north-central African countries are Mauritania, Chad, Sudan, Niger and Eritrea, all of which have very large Muslim populations.

Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, Bahrain, Qatar, the UAE and Lebanon are on the Tier 2 Watchlist – one step above Tier 3.

 

[sedonaman]

** … you do not pray to the right diety. Your belief of god is not correct.**

The 1972 discovery of the earliest surviving Qur’anic manuscripts in the Great Mosque of Sana’a conclusively shows that the present Qur’an is different from the early manuscripts. It proves the Islamic claim – that the Qur’an is infallibility, that it is Allah’s original revelation word by word, and that it is copy of the version kept in a tablet in heaven – outright false.

It shattered the orthodox Muslim belief that the Qur’an, as it has reached us today, is “the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God”. It means Qur’an has been distorted, perverted, revised, modified, and corrected, and textual alterations had taken place over the years purely by human hands.

The sacred aura surrounding this Holy Scripture of Islam, which remained intact for some 14 centuries is gone with this astonishing discovery and the ‘core belief’ of 1.4b Muslims that the Qur’an is the eternal, unaltered word of God is now clearly visible as a great hoax, a downright falsehood.

“Will the Ancient Qur’anic Manuscripts of Sana’a Spell the Downfall of Islam?”
Monday, 15 June 2009 17:57 by Sujit Das
islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40:ancient-Qur’anic-manuscripts-of-sanaa-spell-downfall-of-islam&catid=18:sujit

 

[jakasaki]

sedonaman:
Excellent source of information, but you already know that these guys weren’t the only ones who have confirmed the koran today is **NOT **what it was or that it has been changed.

It has been through so many changes and many historians, muslim and non muslim have documented.

Thanks SedonaMan for the post.

Too bad our “ask about islam round 4” thread is buried deep inside CAF somewhere… Perhaps it’s time to resurect that thread or start a new one called “ask about islam round 5”…

 

[Aydan]

not anymore
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=311284

Excellent source of information, but you already know that these guys weren’t the only ones who have confirmed the koran today is **NOT **what it was or that it has been changed.

It has been through so many changes and many historians, muslim and non muslim have documented.

Thanks SedonaMan for the post.

Too bad our “ask about islam round 4” thread is buried deep inside CAF somewhere… Perhaps it’s time to resurect that thread or start a new one called “ask about islam round 5”…