good points of islam

[tomarin]

Yes, certainly. I’ve heard people say that Jews and Christians worship the same God, and certainly there is no denying the Jewish roots of Christianity…however, we must remember that Christ represents the fullness of God. As such, to deny His divinity is to deny God. This is why I often laugh when Televangelists call the Jews “God’s people”…how can they be God’s people when, according to Christian theology, they deny God.

Wait a sec … to hold this position wouldn’t you have to believe that the Old Covenant was never valid? Which would mean Jesus himself, a pious Jew, worshipped a false god? Isn’t this cutting off your nose to spite your face?

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Wait a sec … to hold this position wouldn’t you have to believe that the Old Covenant was never valid? Which would mean Jesus himself, a pious Jew, worshipped a false god? Isn’t this cutting off your nose to spite your face?

Not at all, the Old Covenant was valid, but the people broke it. God promised a new covenant between Himself and mankind:

Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah - not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. [Jeremiah 31:31-33]

The writer of Hebrews makes reference to this, and explains the status of the old covenant:

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says: [Jeremiah 31:31-33 quoted]…In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. [Hebrews 8:7-13]

The Old and New Testaments are called such because they refer to the Old and New Covenants between God and mankind. It is not that the old covenant was “invalid,” but that it was done away with with the advent of the new, brought about by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.

 

[tomarin]

Not at all, the Old Covenant was valid, but the people broke it. God promised a new covenant between Himself and mankind …
The Old and New Testaments are called such because they refer to the Old and New Covenants between God and mankind. It is not that the old covenant was “invalid,” but that it was done away with with the advent of the new, brought about by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.

I don’t want to belabor the point, but if you believe the Old Covenant was valid at one time but broken (which is the orthodox Catholic view as well) then it seems to me you cannot logically say that the Jews worship a false god (if that’s what you are indeed saying?). They worship God the Father but do not recognize the Son or the Holy Ghost. Is that what you believe? (Sorry if I’m being dense.)

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I don’t want to belabor the point, but if you believe the Old Covenant was valid at one time but broken (which is the orthodox Catholic view as well) then it seems to me you cannot logicallysay that the Jews worship a false god (if that’s what you are indeed saying?). They worship God the Father but do not recognize the Son or the Holy Ghost. Is that what you believe? (Sorry if I’m being dense.)

Yes, precisely because of what Christ said. I quoted Him earlier, but I’ll repeat the quotes here:

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." [John 14:6]

“But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.” [Matthew 10:33]

“For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.” [Luke 9:26]

I also know that both Roman Catholics and Orthodox believe that Christ, the Son, represents the fullness of God. So does the Holy Spirit - and remember that entire ecumenical councils were debated to prove that the Holy Spirit was divine. Therefore, to deny any part of the Trinity is to deny all of God. God is not a buffet line - you can’t choose the Father and not the Son and Holy Spirit and still expect a spiritually satisfying meal Likewise, you can’t just say, “Well they don’t recognize the Son, but they still believe in God,” when Christ himself said any one who denies Him will be denied before the Father.

 

[swplan76]

So you are saying that none of us can be sure of the truth because we all believe that we are right?

God wants us to know Him.

Judaism & Christianity encourage us to seek Him.

If someone is a Jew, they should examine the Christianity and Islam and see if they believe in either of the claims of the religions.

If someone is a Christian, they should know why the believe in Jesus. Are His teachings a fulfillment of Judaism? Christians should continually seek Him, because there is no end to what each of us will find as we search Him out. We should also consider the claims of Islam - is Islam a fulfillment of Christianity? Does it conflict with the teachings of Jesus? Does it fit? Christians are called to “work out your faith with fear and trembling.” This is the most important thing of life - are we in relationship with God as we should be? Judaism, Christianity and Islam all present a God who believes that we can know the right path. Scripture says He is devoted to us and He wants us to be devoted to Him. Scripture presents the relationship He wants to have with us like a marriage (repeatedly through scripture). He created us to be sure, to know Him.

I have gotten to know Islam to some degree. I’ve spent more than a decade of my life studying the religion. Very early on I saw what the religion is and I knew that it was not from God. I believe that there is a high chance that Satan revealed the Qur’an to Muhammad and started the religion in order to keep people from accepting the freedom of Jesus. I believe that the other option is that Muhammad made up the Qur’an and Satan piggy backed and influenced the development of the religion. I know that Islam is not of God - it is a lie that is meant to keep people from Him.

 

[swplan76]

When Jesus was tempted in the dessert, what did Satan offer Him?
Satan starts with food and misuse of power, with which Jesus defends Himself with scripture. Satan follows up in this way:
Matt. 4:8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9"All this I will give you," he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[d]”

Satan tries to tempt Jesus with Splendor and Power - the things that come with Empire.

Else where in Matthew Jesus is face with a similar situation
Matt. 8:19Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”
20Jesus replied, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

The Fox was the symbol for the ruling Jewish elite.
The Eagle was the symbol for the Roman Empire.
They build huge buildings and accumulate wealth.
They build huge armies and oppress the weak.
Their treasure is on earth and of the earth.
Through His response Jesus is telling the man, I am not like them - I am not an oppressor. Can you accept that?

The prophecies made by various prophets while Israel was enslaved in Babylon were interpreted in many ways - one thing was clear, Israel expected a liberator. Many wanted the Messiah to be like Solomon, or Rome, or Babylon and conquer their oppressors in the same violence that was used against them. Others envisioned Him to be more like Moses. Jesus did conquer Rome, but not in the way that our instincts direct us. Our instincts are for revenge, but Jesus calls us in another way, against our nature into a Way that will free us and those who are around us (because of His power in us).

The Angel in the cave that visited Muhammad was either a figment of his imagination or cunning, or it was Satan himself. I know this because of my own research and study.

If it was Satan in the cave, then he led Muhammad into what Muhammad would perceive as Splendor, Power and Empire. Muhammad built huge buildings and accumulated wealth. He built huge armies and oppressed the weak. His treasure was on earth and of the earth. Consider the Muslim idea of heaven: wine and houris.

Wine and houris…
Muslims are not allowed to drink wine on earth, but in heaven, they will have unlimited wine at their disposal.
Muslims are not allowed to be promiscuous on earth, but they will have an unlimited number of houris at their disposal. A houri is a beautiful virgin woman. So, heaven for a Muslim will be about feasting, drinking and promiscuity. What happens to a houri once she has been used for sex?.. well she is no longer a virgin, so maybe she is disposed of, or reborn as a virgin again only to be continually used for sex. The Qur’an is not clear on that idea. Do houris have minds or souls? How do they feel about being constantly used and disposed of?
Where are the Muslim women in Heaven as their sons and husbands are feasting, drinking and having sex with houris? Maybe Muslim women enter into the afterlife to be houris… or maybe Muslim women do not have a place in heaven. Maybe, when the die, they just become dirt.
Muhammad’s empire is not the Kingdom that Jesus leads us into. Through the Qur’an we can know that Muhammad’s empire is like all the other empires that oppress the weak - Islam is like them - It is an oppressor.

God wants us to know who He is and why we believe what we believe. We have to search it out.

 

[tomarin]

Wine and houris…
Muslims are not allowed to drink wine on earth, but in heaven, they will have unlimited wine at their disposal.

That’s an interesting point. If wine is sinful here on earth, why would it be allowed in heaven? Any Muslim posters care to comment?

 

[swplan76]

…he rounded our understanding of God to include the Trinity, with a greater understanding of God. However, our understanding of God is still limited.

We are human, so our understanding of God will always be limited. Islam does not lead to an understanding of God. Islam leads away from understanding God. Islam misleads people about who God is. It leads to confusion about God.

It is unfortunate that the third major faith with Abrahamic commonality, Islam, has chosen to restrict the understanding of God, and the Revelation that he has given us of himself. As far as I understand it, Muslims worship the One God; however, as they deny the Incarnation of Christ and emphatically reject the Trinity, they have denied themselves the comfort, the strength and the challenges that come with a fuller Christian understanding.
The good thing about Islam is that Muslims DO believe in God

.
That all depends on what you mean. They believe in Allah. Who do you believe Muhammad met with in the cave? Read my earlier posts and you’ll see who I think the angel was (if there was an angel). Either way, I don’t believe they worship God. I don’t believe God has called them to the lifestyle/religion they are living. I believe Satan has influence its development, either directly through revealing the Qur’an to Muhammad, or by piggybacking the movement Muhammad started.

You are right, it would be amazing if God would move among the Muslims and remove the ignorance which has shackled them.

If Islam is what I’m saying it is, why would we attempt to find redeeming qualities in it? Sure it has some things in it that will appear good on the surface, but they are there to lure people in. As we admire those things, will we become misled?

Its like looking through a garbage dump for morsels of food, or items that can be resold. If we are desperate people who have nothing else, then we can do that in order to survive, but we are not without resources. We have access to the God of the universe.

 

[swplan76]

**
There is no need to doubt that Muhammad was visited by the angel Gabriel as it is stated in the Quran. It is just like you believe that Joseph the Carpentar (the father of Jesus) was visited by the angel to tell him that Mary was already pregnant before her marriage, and you believe that. So what is the problem about believing the visit of angel to Muhammad. We believe that Joseph was visited by angel. But you have difficulty in believing that Muhammad was visited by angel. Nobody saw the angels in both cases.**

The big difference is that Joseph was not told anything evil. The angel told him something to prepare Him for the good things that God did. The things Muhammad taught were evil and lead people away from the freedom God desires them to have. If a person reads the Qur’an and compares it to the teachings of Jesus, clearly the Qur’an is not a message from the same source - the Qur’an justifies violence and hatred of people (along with other things that I have presented here before).

That does not prove that he wrote the quran or made it up all by himself. Quran is a big book. Do you want to give credit to Muhammad to have authored that book?

I’m saying that I don’t know how Muhammad got the book - either it was Satan, or Muhammad developed it over time (12 years?). Muhammad was a smart man - He was known to be very intelligent among people long before the Qur’an came along.

In Islam also, it is the Grace of Allah that will help the believers in the next world. How come god is not interested in your religious? activity. then why are you so active and why you do any religious work? In Islam also, it is the sincererity that counts for salvation. It is utmost and primary item and it is described as "Taqwa."

God is not impressed by our religious activity - it is not what we do that brings us into good standing with Him. It is His grace, what He has done through Jesus, that makes it possible for us to be right with God. He doesn’t need me to stick with a certain diet, or pray facing a certain direction 5 times a day, or wear certain clothes or grow a beard - God is not impressed with stuff. God wants us to be free and that can only happen as we choose Him.

God gives us direction on how to live, not so that we can earn our salvation, but so that we can be free. We are allowed to do all things, but not all things will be beneficial to us. It may be that a true believer in God would not even think of sinning in ways that various law warn us against. A true believer loves God and is convicted against sinning. The covenant that comes through Jesus is written on our hearts (that’s what the Bible says). It may be that various people that you witness who call themselves Christians really aren’t - Maybe. We can spend time looking at Christians and Muslims and talking about how terrible they are - look what they do. I personally don’t look at the people as much as I do the God that they bow to. I also look at scripture before I look at people.

I believe that looking for a perfect religion with a perfect people is impossible. We need to look for God - who is He and what does He call us to?

(Here’s a Question: Is Muhammad considered the model by which Muslims should follow? Is his example equal to the Qur’an?)

** You have given your opinion about Islam. I have given you my opinion about Christianity.No hard feelings, please SW.**

I’ve never had hard feelings. Years ago, I might have thought about being angry with you over the kinds of things you have said, before I was a Christian. As a Christian, I have learned that I should love people who present themselves as enemies. You have not done that - we are simply having a conversation. Islam does not encourage tolerance of conflicting ideas. I have committed Shirk and Kufr according to Islam. I am not a fool and a terrible person in the eyes of Islam. Allah will surely not forgive me if I continue on in the way I am living - condemnation awaits. Its a good thing I don’t believe that Islam is the way of God.

God loves and forgives.

 

[swplan76]

In a previous post I wrote

“I am **not **a fool and a terrible person in the eyes of Islam.”

I meant to write:

I am a fool and a terrible person in the eyes of Islam.

 

[ZAKI]

When Jesus was tempted in the dessert, what did Satan offer Him?
Satan starts with food and misuse of power, with which Jesus defends Himself with scripture. Satan follows up in this way:
Matt. 4:8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9"All this I will give you," he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[d]”

Satan tries to tempt Jesus with Splendor and Power - the things that come with Empire.

Else where in Matthew Jesus is face with a similar situation
Matt. 8:19Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”
20Jesus replied, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

The Fox was the symbol for the ruling Jewish elite.
The Eagle was the symbol for the Roman Empire.
They build huge buildings and accumulate wealth.
They build huge armies and oppress the weak.
Their treasure is on earth and of the earth.
Through His response Jesus is telling the man, I am not like them - I am not an oppressor. Can you accept that?

The prophecies made by various prophets while Israel was enslaved in Babylon were interpreted in many ways - one thing was clear, Israel expected a liberator. Many wanted the Messiah to be like Solomon, or Rome, or Babylon and conquer their oppressors in the same violence that was used against them. Others envisioned Him to be more like Moses. Jesus did conquer Rome, but not in the way that our instincts direct us. Our instincts are for revenge, but Jesus calls us in another way, against our nature into a Way that will free us and those who are around us (because of His power in us).

The Angel in the cave that visited Muhammad was either a figment of his imagination or cunning, or it was Satan himself. I know this because of my own research and study.

If it was Satan in the cave, then he led Muhammad into what Muhammad would perceive as Splendor, Power and Empire. Muhammad built huge buildings and accumulated wealth. He built huge armies and oppressed the weak. His treasure was on earth and of the earth. Consider the Muslim idea of heaven: wine and houris.

Wine and houris…
Muslims are not allowed to drink wine on earth, but in heaven, they will have unlimited wine at their disposal.
Muslims are not allowed to be promiscuous on earth, but they will have an unlimited number of houris at their disposal. A houri is a beautiful virgin woman. So, heaven for a Muslim will be about feasting, drinking and promiscuity. What happens to a houri once she has been used for sex?.. well she is no longer a virgin, so maybe she is disposed of, or reborn as a virgin again only to be continually used for sex. The Qur’an is not clear on that idea. Do houris have minds or souls? How do they feel about being constantly used and disposed of?
Where are the Muslim women in Heaven as their sons and husbands are feasting, drinking and having sex with houris? Maybe Muslim women enter into the afterlife to be houris… or maybe Muslim women do not have a place in heaven. Maybe, when the die, they just become dirt.
Muhammad’s empire is not the Kingdom that Jesus leads us into. Through the Qur’an we can know that Muhammad’s empire is like all the other empires that oppress the weak - Islam is like them - It is an oppressor.

God wants us to know who He is and why we believe what we believe. We have to search it out.

assalam
I converted to islam two years ago and alhamdullilah it is going fine with me. I especially like the calmness and peace that I feel when I pray or read Quran.

Anyway, In relations to your post, Muhammed (pbuh) never built extravagant buildings and nor did he accumulate wealth, he was known for being humble and gave any money that he had to charity. I need to go now but I’ll fully reply later inshallah.

wasalam

 

[John7]

good points of islam

I like how muslim men are attracted to very young women

 

[Cactus]

I like they way they say they’re for peace. I’d like it better if they’d stop killing Christians and others they dislike.

 

[ZAKI]

good points of islam

I like how muslim men are attracted to very young women

What? Do you want me to say that I like it how christian priests are attracted to little boys?

wasalam

 

[ZAKI]

That’s an interesting point. If wine is sinful here on earth, why would it be allowed in heaven? Any Muslim posters care to comment?

Assalam,
Very well. Wine is sinful on earth because it contains alcohol and is harmful (even though enjoyable) and that is why it is forbidden. However, the wine in paradise will have no harmful effects in paradise.
Having sexual intercourse with multiple women is forbidden because of the harm it can cause to the society and how it can corrupt it. Children without fathers, corruption, gossip, etc. In paradise, there will be no consequences to having sexual intercourse with the Houris.

Also for another post, women WILL have men to attain sexual enjoyment from and it is said that BOTH men and women will be content with what they have.

wasalam

 

[ZAKI]

I like they way they say they’re for peace. I’d like it better if they’d stop killing Christians and others they dislike.

Assalam,

I think you may be confusing islam with islamism. There are bad people in all religions including your own and for a few examples: the ku klux klan, the crusades, the spanish inquisition, etc.
Also do not judge a religion by its people but by the religion itself.

wasalam

 

[dolphinlove]

What? Do you want me to say that I like it how christian priests are attracted to little boys?

wasalam

that attitude will get you kicked off here fast!
What he said was true, your muhammad was attracted to a young girl of 6 years old. Therefore, he paved the way to allow any muslim man, who is attracted to small girls to marry them and have sex with them. Jesus did NOT teach us such things, the priests that do such things are commiting sin and are soon dealt with.

 

[dolphinlove]

Assalam,
Very well. Wine is sinful on earth because it contains alcohol and is harmful (even though enjoyable) and that is why it is forbidden. However, the wine in paradise will have no harmful effects in paradise.
Having sexual intercourse with multiple women is forbidden because of the harm it can cause to the society and how it can corrupt it. Children without fathers, corruption, gossip, etc. In paradise, there will be no consequences to having sexual intercourse with the Houris.

Also for another post, women WILL have men to attain sexual enjoyment from and it is said that BOTH men and women will be content with what they have.

wasalam

2 things…
Firstly, can you show me a quote from either the quran or hadith that says its non alcoholic wine.
Secondly, the main reason for sexual pleasure is to procreate, its an intimate relationship between one man and one woman to create life. Why, would this still be going on in heaven? do you have babies in heaven as well?

 

[dolphinlove]

Assalam,

I think you may be confusing islam with islamism.

never heard of this before, what is the difference?

There are bad people in all religions including your own and for a few examples: the ku klux klan, the crusades, the spanish inquisition, etc.
Also do not judge a religion by its people but by the religion itself.

ku klux klan does not have anything to do with the Catholic Church.
The crusades were faught because of muslims spreading itself by the sword into Christian lands, Christians, then faught back to protect themselves. Is there anything wrong with one protecting themselves?
And again, who attack spain, the muslims!!!

 

[ZAKI]

never heard of this before, what is the difference?

ku klux klan does not have anything to do with the Catholic Church.
The crusades were faught because of muslims spreading itself by the sword into Christian lands, Christians, then faught back to protect themselves. Is there anything wrong with one protecting themselves?
And again, who attack spain, the muslims!!!

Assalam,

islamism is using islam for a political agenda and thus making one aspect of islam more important than another (which is actually more important). For example, groups using “jihad” or “the lesser struggle” and making it more important than other core beliefs such as charity to the poor and fasting.

Actually, the ku klux klan is a christian group, also I already know that the muslims took over palestine and spain. But you will notice something. When the muslims took over spain, they were very peaceful and let everybody resume with their lives and live in harmony. However when the christians eventually got control of spain, they forced every muslim (man, women or child) to convert to christianity or die.

wasalam