Good Read: Obamacare vs. the Catholics

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Definitely an interesting read. I agree with the author that the HHS mandate is a shocking breach of trust with Catholics who had either supported Obama or his health care initiative. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

However, I would disagree that Obama is looking to “dismantle” Catholic institutions. That’s a bit of a conspiracy theory that seems to violate Occam’s razor, imho.
 
Obama won on the Catholic vote. I can’t believe he did something this stupid before the elections. He must be certain that he is going to loose, or he would have waited to after the election to put the screws to us.
Oh but wait! He’s giving us a whole year to comply! Within that legnth of time surely Catholics will have softened up!
 
Obama won on the Catholic vote. I can’t believe he did something this stupid before the elections. He must be certain that he is going to loose, or he would have waited to after the election to put the screws to us.
I hope you are right. However, I am fearful that many Catholics will still vote for him. So many of our Catholic brothers and sisters do not place Catholic beliefs and values as top priority in the poll booth.I believe we will all stand before God and answer for everything someday…including who we vote for. A friend of mine recently referred to himself as a Catholic Democrat (an oxymoron in my opinion.) We cannot entrust our Christian values to either party affiliation. Instead we are responsible to know each candidate’s stand on the issues before voting for them.
 
Our “president” is a self consumed, anti-American, non-Christian who could care less about Catholics or what they believe in! I pray daily that he will be defeated after many Americans wake up to the socialism with which he is determined to curse America. Urge everyone, not just our fellow Catholics, to vote him OUT OF OFFICE! SAVE AMERICA!
 
However, I would disagree that Obama is looking to “dismantle” Catholic institutions. That’s a bit of a conspiracy theory that seems to violate Occam’s razor, imho.
I think Obama’s political calculus was that the catholic church lacks the internal cohesion to stand up to external pressure on the matter of contraception and chemical abortion. He thinks we lack the will to fight and will simply do what we are told in the matter. In the end, is there a difference between “dismantling” a catholic institution and stripping it of its catholicism? Do you think he’s right or wrong?
 
Oh but wait! He’s giving us a whole year to comply! Within that legnth of time surely Catholics will have softened up!
The article speculates that this “concession” is politically motivated as it pushes the enforcement date after the election (thereby removing the possibility of a Supreme Court case before the election).

It does make me wonder. It’s actually 19 months, not 12 months. But if the enforcement date was so soon after the November election, it would be hard for him to dodge the issue. It’s like Obama is hoping that most Catholics will think, “Oh, we have lots of time to worry about that” and therefore be unmotivated to fight him when it counts (i.e. on election day).

I just pray that Catholics remain as fired up about this in Novemeber rather than getting sidetracked with whatever issue Obama’s campaign team wants us to get swept up with at the time to increase his chances of re-election. I’m still too hesitant to think that Obama cost himself the election with this move. But I am more hopeful. It’s a long way till November.
 
I think Obama’s political calculus was that the catholic church lacks the internal cohesion to stand up to external pressure on the matter of contraception and chemical abortion. He thinks we lack the will to fight and will simply do what we are told in the matter.
I think he assumes that since the majority of Catholic laity use ABC that they won’t care about the issue. I think he assumes the US Bishops will rail against it to no avail.
In the end, is there a difference between “dismantling” a catholic institution and stripping it of its catholicism?
I don’t think those issues even enter his mind.
 
Our “president” is a self consumed, anti-American, non-Christian who could care less about Catholics or what they believe in! I pray daily that he will be defeated after many Americans wake up to the socialism with which he is determined to curse America. Urge everyone, not just our fellow Catholics, to vote him OUT OF OFFICE! SAVE AMERICA!
You know, before this, I just kind of rolled my eyes when Obama’s detractors accused him of being a closet socialist / Marxist / whatever-terrifying-term-you-can-come-up-with. I certainly disagree with Obama’s policies on almost everything, but I thought such descriptions were a bit over-the-top – the conspiracy-laden rhetoric of people who spent too much time listening to conservative talking heads who are caricatures of themselves.

But after this HHS decision, those descriptions no longer strike me as exaggerations. It is truly chilling that Obama is attempting to implement such a policy.
 
You know, before this, I just kind of rolled my eyes when Obama’s detractors accused him of being a closet socialist / Marxist / whatever-terrifying-term-you-can-come-up-with. I certainly disagree with Obama’s policies on almost everything, but I thought such descriptions were a bit over-the-top – the conspiracy-laden rhetoric of people who spent too much time listening to conservative talking heads who are caricatures of themselves.

But after this HHS decision, those descriptions no longer strike me as exaggerations. It is truly chilling that Obama is attempting to implement such a policy.
Government regulation does not equal socialism.
 
How accurate is the political cartoon on page 1 of the article too!
 
I don’t think those issues even enter his mind.
Seriously? You don’t think he’s even noticed that one group of his most consistent political critics are faithful catholics? You don’t think he recognized the way in which this policy would beat that group on the head like a billy club? You don’t think he recognized the potential for this policy to push a wedge further between faithful catholics and dissenter catholics (the kind he has packed his adminsitration with)?

You ain’t from Chicago, that’s fo’ sure. 😉
 
From the article:The other possibility, of course, is that Obama sees the dismantling of Catholic institutions as part of a larger ideological mission, worth losing votes over. As Yuval Levin noted in National Review Online last week, institutions such as the Catholic church represent a mediating layer between the individual and the state. This layer, known as civil society, is one of the principal differences between Western liberal order and the socialist view.

Levin argues that the current fight is just one more example of President Obama’s attempt to bulldoze civil society. He wants to sweep away the middle layer so that individuals may have a more direct and personal encounter with the state. The attack on Catholics is, Levin concludes, “an attack on mediating institutions of all sorts, moved by the genuine belief that they are obstacles to a good society.”
Exactly! This is what I’ve been saying since Obamacare came up. Others on here have echoed the same sentiment. While Obama may not have it out for Catholics in particular, he does seems to have disdain for the “civil society”. It is better that the state provide services, than private organizations. I agree that this is another attempt to push private organizations out of the social sector (just as with Mass and Illinois adoption).
 
But it gets closer.
The Regulatory State treads close to the line of the Tyrannical State because it more and more vests power in the Executive branch which controls the bureaucracy. The way in which regulations are designed, modified, implemented, allow for public (name removed by moderator)ut and also for complete disregard of public (name removed by moderator)ut, as was the case here. The HHS received literally thousands of negative comments before implementing this rule, then disregarded them all and pushed forward anyway because it met their ideological agenda.

As to the war with Catholics, I think Obama belives he can win. Observe the fierce and punishing troops which were called out to strike at Komen when it considered defunding Planned Parenthood. Having given PP a grant even once, it’s not allowed to stop without a fierce accusatory battle, almost threatening–‘nice charity you have there, we’d hate to have to completely destroy it.’ The feminist troops threw everything they had at Komen, including the media, and easily won. Obama figures it will be the same with the Catholic Church if it tries to oppose him.
 
Seriously? You don’t think he’s even noticed that one group of his most consistent political critics are faithful catholics?
Evangelicals are in that group too, he doesn’t go out of his way to go after them. Secondly, some of his supporters were left leaning Catholics and this is a kick even to them, Sr. Keehan has even turned on the President. It appears the President has an extremely narrow understanding of how to apply the 1st Amendment that has nothing to do with Catholicism.
You don’t think he recognized the way in which this policy would beat that group on the head like a billy club? You don’t think he recognized the potential for this policy to push a wedge further between faithful catholics and dissenter catholics (the kind he has packed his adminsitration with)?
I think its a fantasy that the Administration is targeting Catholics. As if we’re important enough to them be hated and plotted against.
You ain’t from Chicago, that’s fo’ sure. 😉
No, but I’ve lived in NJ and that ain’t no clean politics state and New England contains Rhode Island which has been described by the national press as the most corrupt state in the country, not to mention Massachusetts which had as its Senate President the brother of Boston’s most notorious gangster.

I’m not unaware of dirty politics and revenge, but this doesn’t strike me as one of those times.
 
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