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colmywaykurtz
Guest
It doesn’t grow here, Graubo. The closest place is in the lower Rio Grande Valley, southern part of the Texas/Mexico border.
Nice try, though.
Gov’t Should Facilitate Dope Smoking to Decrease Heroin Use, Says GOP Prez Candidate
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Nice try, though.
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colmywaykurtz
Guest
Not long ago, I saw this as a way to pull the fangs of the Mexican drug cartels. Now, even if we legalized it tomorrow, I think it’d be too late. The cartels are so large, wealthy, bristling with firepower, infiltrated into the Mexican army and government, and branched out into so many other business fields (both licit and illicit), we couldn’t take them down just by cutting off their dope revenues.
If they take control of Mexico outright, I can see THEM legalizing drugs to maximize their own profits, and a whole new layer of corruption and criminality arising in the chain of distribution. Multi-leveled distributor networks are typical in the corporatismo-based societies of Spain and its colonial descendants.
BUT, it might well solve many problems within our own society. So it’s still a worthwhile idea, IMO.
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tuscany
Guest
**I notice most of you guys are completly ignoring the part where he says that dope, heroin and other drugs should be legalized. **
** If you legalize one, why the heck not all of them ?
Why, just think how much MORE in taxes we could collect if ALL drugs were legal.
( at least with postitution, it usually involves only two people. With a stoned driver or airline pilot, who knows how many people could be effected ? )**
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Skeptic92
Guest
And in all honesty the drug cartels of Mexico are not really in the Cannabis Business, I am sure it’s more opiates and cocaine in that region, for that region to deal with the drug cartels, the supply must be taken away, which they can’t do as the Cocaine plants are grown in areas that are sacred to the indigenous population, without making some serious enemies on the international human rights field, they can’t do a thing.
However home bound it could do wonders, as the drug dealers no longer have clients, or a way to make money.
Okay just so I could throw out some numbers, number of deaths recorded in 2006 in the UK with cannabis written on the death certificate (whether it was in their system, or related to the death) was 17, the number of deaths that had alcohol written on their death certificate was 6,627, now even if you relate some of the different to the fact ones legal and the others not, I am sure that shows it’s way for damaging then Cannabis,**I notice most of you guys are completly ignoring the part where he says that dope, heroin and other drugs should be legalized. **
** If you legalize one, why the heck not all of them ?
Why, just think how much MORE in taxes we could collect if ALL drugs were legal.
( at least with postitution, it usually involves only two people. With a stoned driver or airline pilot, who knows how many people could be effected ? )**
Legalize them all? No, decriminalize their personal use? Yeah, but for those caught using hard drugs TREAT their addiction rather then treating them as criminals as we currently do, that only causes more problems, they go inside with real hardened criminals, and come out just like them, another menace to society, but this ones our fault, not theirs.
Why criminalize the victims? treat their illness, and regulates what they are using, yes those drugs that have a detrimental effect to human health (such as Cocaine or Heroin) don’t distribute it, but decriminalize it for personal use, and those that are caught with it can be treated, those caught with enough they must be dealing, then they are criminals, but users are victims.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
The guy doesn’t get my primary vote. I have known too many “stoners” to ever think it’s a good idea to just let it be sold freely.
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mtbender
Guest
I have heard the same said for pedophilia… but that’s beside the point.
This doesn’t become an addiction until one choses to break the law and illegally use. So we shouldn’t treat them as criminals even though their illegal actions are what lead to the condition? They make the choice to use in the first place…
Legalize so we can regulate holds no weight with me. They are already breaking the law with using and producing, what makes one think that they will abide by the regulations, taxes, etc? Decrease use, I don’t see that happening. That just means all those kids who feared the law have nothing to fear now and will openly use. I am willing to bet there will be an incline in cannabis use. How we can somehow equate this to lowering the use of other illegal drugs I don’t know.
Legal alcohol use more common – yes. More harmful – maybe. Basing the legalization argument on that is completely flawed. Keep in mind, there were less than 1000 deaths in the UK the same year from AIDS – but it still is bad. I am not comparing the two; I am saying that the number of deaths alone is not a viable statistic to determine the detriment of a holding one accountable for their actions.
Adding one more negative social norm because we are failing to enforce the laws doesn’t seem to add up to me.
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
Not a bad idea. Prostitutes in Europe live a heck of a lot safer and cleaner lives than the street walkers here. Heck, the ones in Nevada have it much better than the average illegal street walker.Well heck, let’s legalize prostitution and tax that too…
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sojo
Guest
Haven’t read everyone’s posts because the first few I saw were quite hateful.
Here’s my experience: We have a friend who is over 70 and was supposed to have died of cancer 7 years ago. At that time, after surgery, the doctors gave him 4-6 months. He went on a big search on how to extend his life, but he was limited in research as his huge doses of morphine and worse gave him only limited hours of lucidity. Without the pain meds, he was in such enormous pain that his entire system was at risk of shutting down, and he needed his mind to do his own colostomy management.
So he found a doctor who recommended a regimine of marijuana, meditation/prayer, valium and morphine. He uses the marijuana to put his mind in a receptive state, despite the mind-blowing pain, to pray and meditate. When that is just not enough, he uses Valium for the same effect. And when all else fails, he resorts to the morphine.
With this regimen, careful diet, scheduled rest, and a LOT of prayer and meditation, he has cut his need for a whole boatload of morphine to tiny amounts every week. He is very disciplined, never buzzed, and also enjoys a glass of wine mixed with water with his meals.
As a result, a man who should have died years ago still enjoys his family, his interests (vintage electronics), and cares for his own colostomy needs and the occasional need for a catheter to urinate. He enjoys the sun on his face, the joy of seeing his grandchildren, and the hope for just one more day.
If he had stayed on the level of morphine and stronger drugs, his already depleted body would have long gone.
He is not an addict, a hippie, and indulgent human being. He is just trying to stay independent, alive and able to love those around him and life one more day.
Also, because of the cancer and colostomy, he was so painfully thin and weak but could not keep any food down. He is still very, very thin, but thanks to carefully timed use of Marijuana, he still eats 5 meals a day of very healthy food and no longer risks death by starvation.
God put this plant on the planet for a reason, I guess. But the main point is - its true. Careful and educated use of marijuana can reduce the need for morphine (or level of need) for patients in severe, mind-blowing, unable to cope and wanting only to kill oneself for relief kind of pain. I’ve seen it for myself.
Here’s my experience: We have a friend who is over 70 and was supposed to have died of cancer 7 years ago. At that time, after surgery, the doctors gave him 4-6 months. He went on a big search on how to extend his life, but he was limited in research as his huge doses of morphine and worse gave him only limited hours of lucidity. Without the pain meds, he was in such enormous pain that his entire system was at risk of shutting down, and he needed his mind to do his own colostomy management.
So he found a doctor who recommended a regimine of marijuana, meditation/prayer, valium and morphine. He uses the marijuana to put his mind in a receptive state, despite the mind-blowing pain, to pray and meditate. When that is just not enough, he uses Valium for the same effect. And when all else fails, he resorts to the morphine.
With this regimen, careful diet, scheduled rest, and a LOT of prayer and meditation, he has cut his need for a whole boatload of morphine to tiny amounts every week. He is very disciplined, never buzzed, and also enjoys a glass of wine mixed with water with his meals.
As a result, a man who should have died years ago still enjoys his family, his interests (vintage electronics), and cares for his own colostomy needs and the occasional need for a catheter to urinate. He enjoys the sun on his face, the joy of seeing his grandchildren, and the hope for just one more day.
If he had stayed on the level of morphine and stronger drugs, his already depleted body would have long gone.
He is not an addict, a hippie, and indulgent human being. He is just trying to stay independent, alive and able to love those around him and life one more day.
Also, because of the cancer and colostomy, he was so painfully thin and weak but could not keep any food down. He is still very, very thin, but thanks to carefully timed use of Marijuana, he still eats 5 meals a day of very healthy food and no longer risks death by starvation.
God put this plant on the planet for a reason, I guess. But the main point is - its true. Careful and educated use of marijuana can reduce the need for morphine (or level of need) for patients in severe, mind-blowing, unable to cope and wanting only to kill oneself for relief kind of pain. I’ve seen it for myself.
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oldcelt
Guest
You didn’t miss anything.
John
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tuscany
Guest
**Sojo,
I’m very glad your friend is doing well.
The subject was NEVER about using dope LEGALLY by Rx from a MEDICAL DOCTOR. The subject was a Republican Presidential Candidate saying that legalizing dope for everyone would make the demand for heroin decrease, and that dope, heroin, and other drugs should be legalized.
I’m sorry if you did, but I saw nothing “quite hateful”, just people very passionately discussing an issue that had NOTHING to do with people being sick. **
I’m very glad your friend is doing well.
The subject was NEVER about using dope LEGALLY by Rx from a MEDICAL DOCTOR. The subject was a Republican Presidential Candidate saying that legalizing dope for everyone would make the demand for heroin decrease, and that dope, heroin, and other drugs should be legalized.
I’m sorry if you did, but I saw nothing “quite hateful”, just people very passionately discussing an issue that had NOTHING to do with people being sick. **
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
Eating too much salt is bad for you too. Let’s make that illegal. And processed sugar. High fructose corn syrup, tobacco. Using offensive language is harmful to other people, lets make that illegal. Skipping Sunday obligation harms your soul. Lets make missing Mass illegal. In fact, lets just turn our brains over to Congress and let them make all of our decisions for us. I mean, if you are too stupid to make good decisions, you might as well let someone else make them for you.
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tuscany
Guest
**Scott,
My reply to Sojo had nothing to do with you. And your rude reply to me, had nothing to do with my quote.
This whole thread was about an ex-gov. wanting to legalize dope, HEROIN and OTHER DRUGS. You just kept narrowing it to dope.
And when you disagree with someone, you call them stupid. Wow.
Well, Scott, I’m done with you, your rudeness, your name calling and this thread.**
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antonivs
Guest
Also running with scissors!
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
I meant “you” in the general sense, as in “a person”. I apologize if you took it as a direct accusation.
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JMJSHJ
Guest
How much salt? How much sugar? Lets legalize nukes. After all if we shouldn’t let Congress make any moral decisions, then lets disband laws and become uncivilized.
Libertarianism=Looneyism.
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
Conservatism = moral totalitarianism.
Liberalism = economic totalitarianism.
Conservatism = Liberalism
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JMJSHJ
Guest
I think Conservatives and liberals would disagree with you for different reasons. The problem with libertarianism is the extremes that one goes to justify its beliefs and the fact that personal problems have no outside effect on other people.
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
The problem with liberals and conservatives is the lengths they will go through to justify having the government make decisions for you “for your own good”. Your statement indicates a fundamental lack of understanding of the libertarianism propegated by S.A. Hayek and Murray Rothbard. You seem to think libertarianism = chaotic anarchy.
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_Abyssinia
Guest
I wonder why Gary thinks state goverments should open marijuana stores and sell marijuana directly but would prefer his own state didn’t do it.
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Skeptic92
Guest
Legal alcohol use more harmful? according to recent studies, even studies by the governments health adviser says yes definitely. Paedophilia is just another red herring people are throwing about, it has NOTHING to do with drug policy, just a way to divert from the issue.
Hows about this for an example of how bad our current drug policy is: an old friend of mine got caught in the wrong crowd of people and started using a mix of MDMA and cocaine, eventually it became a problem (a very big problem) when he went to the NHS for HELP to overcome his addiction do you know what he got? arrested, charged and convicted, 8 months in prison for asking for help, so YOU wish to treat this addicts, victims of society as hardened criminals, which no doubt they will become after a long stint in prison? or do you wish to treat them as human beings and treat their problem? An alcoholic is just as likely (if not more likely) to kill someone because of their addiction, even to the hardest of drugs, yet if the former goes into the NHS and asks for help, he gets counselling and maybe even rehab, if the latter goes into the NHS and asks for help, they get fined, jailed and little to no help while on the inside, just access to more drugs, because ones a criminal offense, the other is socially acceptable.
Most countries classification of Cannabis renders it unusable in medical circumstances, like here in the UK it’s a Class B narcotic, illegal to possess, manufacture, sell or use, it use to be a Class C but the idiots we have in Parliament decided the pharmaceutical companies were right and it had no medical value, while numerous studies say otherwise. Some comments in this thread have been quite hateful of people that have an illness, and people none of us know what went through their head when they started using, no one uses drugs to become an addict, they use drugs for a variety of reasons, but just like any drug (medical or recreational) extended or prolonged use can cause dependency, eventually leading to addiction, I’ve known people be addicted to sleeping meds, perfectly legal and available over the counter, or stronger sleeping pills available on prescription, or any number of other ways.
Prohibition failed for alcohol, and it’s failed for drugs, it’s time we wise up, and learn to treat the problem, not just throw more people into the system.
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