Gov. Tim Kaine to give democratic response to State of Union address

[Riley259]

Gov. Tim Kaine is scheduled to give the Democratic Party’s response to President Bush’s State of Union address tonight. Kaine is described as a devout Catholic. His profile for the most part is consistent with his catholic beliefs but one passage kind of troubles me and that is his position on abortion and contraception. Take a look at this passage from his website and you be the judge:

"I have a faith-based opposition to abortion. As governor, I will work in good faith to reduce abortions by:

1. 
   *]*Enforcing the current Virginia restrictions on abortion and passing an enforceable ban on partial birth abortion that protects the life and health of the mother; *
   *]*Fighting teen pregnancy through abstinence-focused education; *
   *]*Ensuring women’s access to health care (including legal contraception) and economic opportunity; and *
   *]*Promoting adoption as an alternative for women facing unwanted pregnancies. *
   
   Too often politicians are interested in scoring political points, rather than in reducing the number of abortions. Many of the legislative proposals introduced in the General Assembly, like the ones to require unnecessary building standards for doctor’s offices that perform abortions, are just political grandstanding. They encourage division and lawsuits rather than contributing to the goal of reducing abortions. "
   
   In another passage he says he wants to reduce abortions but not criminalize them - this and his statement on access to contraception doesn’t seem consistent with church teaching on these matters. Are the Democrats just using him as a political tool in an effort to garner the Catholic vote?

 

[MikeWM]

Criminalizing abortion on it’s own will not stop abortion. Women will just go elsewhere where it is legal, or to the backstreet, or injure themselves with a knitting needle.

We need to make abortion stop being the least worst option for such people. His comments make sense to me.

Mike

 

[aimee]

MikeWM:

Criminalizing abortion on it’s own will not stop abortion. Women will just go elsewhere where it is legal, or to the backstreet, or injure themselves with a knitting needle.

We need to make abortion stop being the least worst option for such people. His comments make sense to me.

Mike

Mike, At least some innocent children would be saved…
It should be a crime to kill innocent children…
And its a sin as well…

 

[Maranatha]

MikeWM:

Criminalizing abortion on it’s own will not stop abortion. Women will just go elsewhere where it is legal, or to the backstreet, or injure themselves with a knitting needle.

We need to make abortion stop being the least worst option for such people. His comments make sense to me.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I agree that criminalizing abortion would not stop all abortions. We need help people who feel that abortion is their only option. If someone feels overwhelmed and needs help, we need to be there ready to lend a hand. Family members should never disown a relative who makes a mistake and has a pregnancy out of wedlock. The family needs to think of not just the mistake but the result of the mistake as well - an innocent child.

Becoming a parent is a sacrifice for which no return is expected. This is a shadow of Christ’s sacrifice for us. Some people do not want to sacrifice. They are selfish and want to live their sex lives on their own terms.

We are all a part of our community and party responsible when our society allows abortion legally. Therefore, we are all morally obligated to work to overturn unjust laws.

Peace

 

[Joe_Kelley]

MikeWM:

Criminalizing abortion on it’s own will not stop abortion. Women will just go elsewhere where it is legal, or to the backstreet, or injure themselves with a knitting needle.

We need to make abortion stop being the least worst option for such people. His comments make sense to me.

Mike

RIGHT! Criminalizing Bank Robbery hasn’t prevented bank holdups either, but no one seems inclined to give up trying to prevent them.

 

[Lischou]

Are the Democrats just using him as a political tool in an effort to garner the Catholic vote?

What do you think? Do his actions match his rhetoric? Bill Clinton and Al Gore were both “pro-life” at the State level. Hmmmm…

Criminalizing abortion on it’s own will not stop abortion. Women will just go elsewhere where it is legal, or to the backstreet, or injure themselves with a knitting needle.

Mike, pllleeaasssse…this is such an **old **argument. The least you could do is come up with some new material to make it more interesting. Maybe we should ban knitting needles…maybe that’ll help, huh?

His comments make sense to me.

Big surprise!

I say Kaine bears watching. What he does will, in the end, be much more important than what he says. IMO, he seems a little to “polished” to me, politics as usual, not geniune.

Lisa

 

[Jeffrey]

Yea… but it will definetly save quite a few babies. Hmmm… what you just wrote sounds alot like what Whoopi Goldberg said about ‘the hanger’.

MikeWM:

Criminalizing abortion on it’s own will not stop abortion. Women will just go elsewhere where it is legal, or to the backstreet, or injure themselves with a knitting needle.

Mike

 

[MikeWM]

Lischou:

Mike, pllleeaasssse…this is such an **old **argument.

There’s a good reason for that Something to do with it being true, perhaps?

Big surprise!

I’ve no idea why. I am not a Democrat, and I abhor abortion as much as anyone else here. That’s why I want as many things as possible done to stop it. Making it illegal won’t stop it outright. It will reduce it, sure, but so will the other measures outlined here.

Mike

 

[MikeWM]

Jeffrey:

Yea… but it will definetly save quite a few babies.

As will the measures Governor Kaine sets out.

Hmmm… what you just wrote sounds alot like what Whoopi Goldberg said about ‘the hanger’.

Maybe. I’ve no idea what she may have said, so

Mike

 

[Jeffrey]

So… it sounds like what you are saying… she’s trying to keep it legal. We need to make it illegal and send the ppl that murder to prison.

MikeWM:

Maybe. I’ve no idea what she may have said, so

Mike

 

[Whalljim]

MikeWM:

Criminalizing abortion on it’s own will not stop abortion. Women will just go elsewhere where it is legal, or to the backstreet, or injure themselves with a knitting needle.

We need to make abortion stop being the least worst option for such people. His comments make sense to me.

Mike

But sadly, its more than that.

The basic argument about abortion truly isn’t that different than the basic argument surrounding the chattel slavery we had here in the US. Are the slaves/the unborn people? If they are, the rights of other people to own/kill them were never there and cannot be recognized by law.

I don’t mind trying to reduce the circumstances which might reduce the hardships on women, but there has to be a change of mind and heart so that people will think of aborting a child as just as egregious as owning a slave in the peculiar institution. And the law has to change as soon as possible if we to are have any hope at consistency at defending the human person.

The biggest problem I have with arguments like the Governor’s is that they too often just want to soft soap the true horror of abortion (killing human persons) and not address it at all, while only dealing with the other social concerns. It allows politicians on both sides to avoid the meat of the matter and try to appease those who want a womans ‘right’ to choose to abort while making those who are pro life happy. And the rights of the biggest victim in the whole thing go unnoticed and unrecognized.

You can address the social concerns, and that is all well and good, but to address them while leaving the act itself legal would be the same as trying to change economic situations in the old South so people ‘didn’t have to choose to own slaves…’ while still allowing them to do so.

A step in the right direction, but pitifully inadequate by itself.

Jimbo

 

[YinYangMom]

Riley259:

In another passage he says he wants to reduce abortions but not criminalize them - this and his statement on access to contraception doesn’t seem consistent with church teaching on these matters. Are the Democrats just using him as a political tool in an effort to garner the Catholic vote?

I suspect it is a beginning. The Dems have to start somewhere to turn their donkey in the right direction. If he succeeds at dramatically reducing abortions and educating young people about the value of abstinence so that there are dramatically fewer unwanted pregnancies from that sector then perhaps he will gain more support to take the next step - whatever that may be - which reduces abortions even further, educates adult women about NFP so that there are fewer unwanted pregnancies in that sector. This way the abortions stop - not because they become illegal - but because women come to the Truth about the sanctity of life.

 

[MikeWM]

Whalljim:

but there has to be a change of mind and heart so that people will think of aborting a child as just as egregious as owning a slave in the peculiar institution.

I agree wholeheartedly. Where we differ is the change that criminalising abortion will make. I believe that women who would have an abortion now would think ‘stupid white men, what do they know?’ and find a way to have an abortion anyway. The law is a backup - we shouldn’t not kill people because the law says so, we don’t because we know it to be wrong.

Hearts and minds need to be changed so we see abortion as wrong, too. I don’t see merely criminalising helping any more than it does with say, smoking cannabis. People who smoke cannabis don’t think it is wrong, even if they know it is illegal. Hence they do it anyway.

Mike

 

[MikeWM]

YinYangMom:

This way the abortions stop - not because they become illegal - but because women come to the Truth about the sanctity of life.

Yes, that has to be the way to do it.

Mike

 

[Franze]

The killings will never stop but have to be banned, the same is, the abortion.

 

[Jeffrey]

And… if they become illegal… they will go to jail for murder. THAT will go a long way to ending abortion.

Franze:

The killings will never stop but have to be banned, the same is, the abortion.

 

[Riley259]

MikeWM:

I agree wholeheartedly. Where we differ is the change that criminalising abortion will make. I believe that women who would have an abortion now would think ‘stupid white men, what do they know?’ and find a way to have an abortion anyway. The law is a backup - we shouldn’t not kill people because the law says so, we don’t because we know it to be wrong.

Hearts and minds need to be changed so we see abortion as wrong, too. I don’t see merely criminalising helping any more than it does with say, smoking cannabis. People who smoke cannabis don’t think it is wrong, even if they know it is illegal. Hence they do it anyway.

Mike

A law that says it’s ok to kill innocent human beings can never be legitimate morally - it’s just simply wrong and there’s no way that we can tolerate it’s continued existence (by saying let’s not criminalize it or make it against the law) without in some way endorsing it even if only passively so.

 

[mlchance]

MikeWM:

There’s a good reason for that Something to do with it being true, perhaps?

But it’s not true. Prior to Roe, most illegal abortions were performed by doctors using sterile equipment, often in medical facilities. The image of women creeping after hours to coat-hanger-wielding quacks in back alleys is a myth invented propagated by the likes of NARAL in the 60s and early 70s as part of their efforts to legalize abortion.

– Mark L. Chance.