Government Declares War On Your Wealth

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Jimmygill88 said:
As a committed catholic and a socialist I find some of the posts difficult to comprehend. It seems simple to me. Have enough money for what you need and take care of others. It’s not hard really is it
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Ah, if only we lived in a simple world, then all solutions would be easy and we would not even have such discussions.🙂
Being a true Catholic and a true socialist is an oxymoron. You cannot be both.

A person living in a true socialist economic system has nothing of their own, everything belongs to the state, therefore they cannot part with it in charity. Being unable to participate in charity, they are unable to gain grace from such charity. The free-will that God gave man, a very great gift, has been usurped by the state. It is not a coincidence that in the real world, this world, socialist states work to supress religion, including the Catholic religion, in order to maintain their control. The leaders of socialist states know that Catholicism and socialism are incompatible.

I understand the beauty of the socialistic mantra. I believe people would live that way naturally in an unfallen world, without the oppression of a state to enforce it. The misguided believe that you can fix man’s selfishness through socialism. That is not true, it’s been tried enough times for us to prove it to ourselves. Socialism does not cure selfishness. And not being able to cure selfishness, a socialistic economic system eventually collapses as selfish man believes that he deserves what he needs, and that it is others’ duty to it for him.

The true way to a better society is to fix man. Once fixed, man would not ‘need’ socialism in order for the world to be a good place. Once man is fixed, being free to practice charity voluntarily, the only way that God and Jesus want it to be, he will give up what he truly owns, for the good of others. Just as Jesus freely gave up His Body for us on the cross and in the Eucharist. One must be free to choose to do good, in order to be able to do so. If we are not free to be charitible, then we are only being treated as animals. That is very basic Catholic teaching.

As a committed Catholic, have you read and sought to understand the popes’ teachings on socialism?
 
mdecler2 said:
No, but when prophets speak, they can leave the people speechless, or cause them to turn away in disgust. I am reading every word of this thread.

I am speechless. I really don’t know what to say. My friends are telling me similar things as this ACCT fellow, and I don’t know what to say to them either. Some say its the end of the world. Others say that it is “the end of an age”: the West will collapse and America with it.

I am not just hearing the message of “economic collapse” from ACCT. I seem to hear it everywhere, but articulated most poignantly by faithful Catholics.

It is very hard for me to accept these messages because I grew up in a world full of sensationalism, empty entertainment, lies, and hedonism. Are these messages just inspired by pop culture, “2012” movie entertainment, or is this real? I know how much TV my parents watch, and everything that comes from this generation I hold with immediate distrust until proven not guilty.

Either every aspect of Western culture is being infested by lies, or I am going to have to face some hard facts.

Do I believe this? In whom can I trust if not my own friends? I don’t know. I just don’t know. Did not Jesus say that we will know neither the day nor the hour, and that many would come claiming to know it?
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👍👍

Very Good! You are on to something! Keep searching and in the end you will find Mary and her son, Jesus.

I would like to know the answers to the questions that you ask too, just out of human curiosity. However, I don’t know all the details. God only reveals things to me on a need to know basis, in His own good time. As a child of God, I can trust Him without having to know everything. Like you, I have many questions for God. However, when I meet Him face-to-face He will have many more questions for me!

I can only relate what I and others have personally experienced in Medjugore. The miracles of the sun and the moon that I and others experienced in Medjugore only serve to put an exclamation mark behind my faith. I now know without a doubt that God IS REAL! I was born a cradle Catholic and I always accepted God in an intellectual sort of way. However, that changed dramatically after Medjugore. Call it a “born again” experience, if you will. I also know that Mary is real, and I love her deeply as my mother. It is she who led me to Jesus in her own gentle and sweet way.

Your mother, Mary, wears combat boots! This is her time. In 1981 in Medjugore she said that a great battle will unfold between her son, Jesus, and Satan. Today she is saying that Pride (Satan) is ready to rule. Mary will lead those under her mantle through the ambush that Satan has prepared for us. Her Immaculate Heart will triumph! Repent and ask Mary to be under her mantle. ** We have no future without Jesus!**
 
boclucky14 said:
…
Therefore, when you place your money in a bank, you are not keeping the money out of circulation. It’s allowing the bank to turn around, give that money to someone who wants it (and, in a better world, with a good, economic use for that money, with a detailed plan on how to get the Bank it’s money back). Then the that person would go out, perhaps start a business, hire a few people, and become an entreupenour, causing money circulation from your money that you don’t wish to use.

Money placed in a bank allows for more economic growth. …
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Excellent post! It seems the hardest thing for people to understand is money in a bank is not squirreled away in a vault but loaned out to people who want to buy a house, car, etc., or to open a business. In any case, it re-enters circulation. A more difficult concept for them to grasp is that higher taxes on the rich reduces the amount of money available for people to borrow, thus reducing economic growth.
“Nø, they can’t.”
 
Jesus was not putting down Mary when He said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." I think that He was telling us that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, IF we hear and obey the word of God. If Christ is our spiritual brother, then Mary is our spiritual mother.

Why is so difficult to understand the role of Mary? She is leading us to her Son, Jesus Christ. Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote in Summa “…In all ages, men have been divinely instructed in matter expedient for the salvation of the elect…and in all ages there have been persons possessed of the spirit of prophecy, not for the purpose of announcing new doctrines, but to direct human actions.” I think that Thomas Aquinas is telling us that private prophecy has an important function. Most people need encouragement as an aid to their salvation. Private revelation is a result of divine Providence; however, no one is required to accept private revelation.

God wants to teach us that when He sends Mary as His messenger, He is not sending any ordinary person in His plan for our salvation. God the Father wants us to know that Mary is important. This is apparently a concept that we have trouble understanding and accepting. I guess that is why God keeps sending Mary to us again and again. This is especially true of the last one hundred and fifty two years, starting with Lourdes, France in 1858. Our love and devotion to our Blessed Mother is at a very low level. Perhaps that is why the **apparitions at Medjugore, Yugoslavia **are going on for so long.

Consecration to Mary is nothing new. It was popularized by Saint Louis de Montforort around the late 1600s and early 1700s in his classic, “A Treatise on the True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin.” All of our last five popes have consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. “Totus tuus Maria” - totally yours Mary, or I am all yours Mary was the motto of our last pope, John Paul II.

Mary delights in her role as our spiritual mother. This role was given to Mary by Jesus at the foot of the cross. Do you remember when Jesus said, son behold your mother; mother, behold your son? Jesus wasn’t just giving Mary to John as his mother; Jesus was giving Mary to the whole world as its spiritual mother.

It is no coincidence that Mary went to visit Elizabeth in the hill country of Judea. David rested there with the Arc of the Covenant for forty days. Mary, the new Arc of the Covenant (she was pregnant with Jesus), stayed with Elizabeth for forty days. Do you remember what Mary said to Elizabeth? She said that henceforth ALL NATIONS SHALL CALL HER BLESSED.
 
*Investment legend George Soros — the man famous for making a billion dollars in one day and breaking the Bank of England — claims Europe has only three months left to solve its sovereign debt crisis.

I say he’s dead wrong. I say he hasn’t even begun to factor in the amount of bad debt drowning Europe: By my estimates, more than $6 trillion!

The way I see it, Soros has hugely underestimated the social and cultural factors behind Europe’s meltdown.

There are 27 different countries in the European Union speaking 23 different official languages. There are different belief systems, different moral systems, a myriad number of different social programs and safety nets, and more.

This is very, VERY different from when Mr. Soros was able to single out one country, Great Britain, from Europe and successfully short the British pound.

In short, I believe that Soros is wrong. Europe does not have three months to solve its crisis. If it doesn’t do something immediately, Europe could suffer a knockout blow and collapse within a month.

That’s why you have to ask yourself …

“Spain’s now melting down, shut off from the credit markets. Why isn’t the European Central Bank taking action?”

“What are Europe’s leaders doing besides running from one emergency meeting to another?”

“What about our own Federal Reserve? Where does it stand regarding Europe. Where does it stand regarding our now softening economy?”*

Larry Edelson
 
Dan_Grelinger said:
Ah, if only we lived in a simple world, then all solutions would be easy and we would not even have such discussions.🙂
Being a true Catholic and a true socialist is an oxymoron. You cannot be both.

A person living in a true socialist economic system has nothing of their own, everything belongs to the state, therefore they cannot part with it in charity. Being unable to participate in charity, they are unable to gain grace from such charity. The free-will that God gave man, a very great gift, has been usurped by the state. It is not a coincidence that in the real world, this world, socialist states work to supress religion, including the Catholic religion, in order to maintain their control. The leaders of socialist states know that Catholicism and socialism are incompatible.

I understand the beauty of the socialistic mantra. I believe people would live that way naturally in an unfallen world, without the oppression of a state to enforce it. The misguided believe that you can fix man’s selfishness through socialism. That is not true, it’s been tried enough times for us to prove it to ourselves. Socialism does not cure selfishness. And not being able to cure selfishness, a socialistic economic system eventually collapses as selfish man believes that he deserves what he needs, and that it is others’ duty to it for him.

The true way to a better society is to fix man. Once fixed, man would not ‘need’ socialism in order for the world to be a good place. Once man is fixed, being free to practice charity voluntarily, the only way that God and Jesus want it to be, he will give up what he truly owns, for the good of others. Just as Jesus freely gave up His Body for us on the cross and in the Eucharist. One must be free to choose to do good, in order to be able to do so. If we are not free to be charitible, then we are only being treated as animals. That is very basic Catholic teaching.

As a committed Catholic, have you read and sought to understand the popes’ teachings on socialism?
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Yes. And I have also noted the propensity of the Papacy to support reactionary regimes. And I note the propensity of many nuns and clergy at the ‘sharp end’ to disagree with the Papal political stance. If socialism is holding all things in common it is much like the early Church then, or a religious orde is it not
 
Pope Pius XI further emphasized the fundamental opposition between Communism and Christianity, and made it clear that no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism. The reason is that Socialism is founded on a doctrine of human society which is bounded by time and takes no account of any objective other than that of material well-being. Since, therefore, it proposes a form of social organization which aims solely at production,* it (socialism) places too severe a restraint on human liberty**, at the same time flouting the true notion of social authority.*

Bl. John XXIII, Encyclical Mater et Magistra, 1961
 
Jimmygill88 said:
Yes. And I have also noted the propensity of the Papacy to support reactionary regimes. And I note the propensity of many nuns and clergy at the ‘sharp end’ to disagree with the Papal political stance. If socialism is holding all things in common it is much like the early Church then, or a religious orde is it not
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Then what do you mean by committed Catholic, if you so easily disregard Catholic teaching?

And, I will agree with you on your one point. There are a few tenets of socialism that were like the early Church. But there are many more that are incompatible with the early Church, and today’s Church.

Entry into the early Church was voluntary. It could be no other way. Seriously, no other way. It was Jesus’ way. And if one wanted to leave the Church, they were freely allowed to go. In some cases, if they wanted to stay, they were given conditions for being able to stay, otherwise they were forced out.

Does socialism embrace these indisputable and indispensible tenets of the early Church? If not, it is but a tyrant masquerading as a ‘loving and just’ economic system.
 
The world is going to heck in a hand basket! Europe’s debt crisis is deepening by the day, and the policy tools that central bankers and fiscal officials have at their disposal are losing their effectiveness when it comes to juicing asset prices!
 
Dan_Grelinger said:
Then what do you mean by committed Catholic, if you so easily disregard Catholic teaching?

And, I will agree with you on your one point. There are a few tenets of socialism that were like the early Church. But there are many more that are incompatible with the early Church, and today’s Church.

Entry into the early Church was voluntary. It could be no other way. Seriously, no other way. It was Jesus’ way. And if one wanted to leave the Church, they were freely allowed to go. In some cases, if they wanted to stay, they were given conditions for being able to stay, otherwise they were forced out.

Does socialism embrace these indisputable and indispensible tenets of the early Church? If not, it is but a tyrant masquerading as a ‘loving and just’ economic system.
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👍👍
 
In reply to the fact that the Catholic Church does not accept socialism, keep in mind that we are going through extremely rapid social changes and that issues such as socialism tend to change. I cannot imagine a social system without some form (degree) of socialism, like Social Security.

Whatever system, we as Catholics need to end poverty worldwide.
 
Robert_Sock said:
In reply to the fact that the Catholic Church does not accept socialism, keep in mind that we are going through extremely rapid social changes and that issues such as socialism tend to change. I cannot imagine a social system without some form (degree) of socialism, like Social Security.

Whatever system, we as Catholics need to end poverty worldwide.
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You should be thinking about your own poverty. There can only be one possible explanation for this pathological complacency: Die-Hard Faith in the Supposedly “Limitless Power” Of Government to Prevent Financial Disasters

A world changing event is about to permanently alter your life! This monumental event will plunge vast numbers of families into the nightmare of poverty, homelessness and hunger. In the worst case scenario, you will see soaring crime, the confiscation of property, the suspension of civil rights, and even martial law enforcement by the U.S. military.

For the first time in modern history, governments themselves are in need of the giant bailouts. Needless to say, this raises serious doubts about their future ability to rescue bankrupt banks, insurance companies or industrial conglomerates. This is not just a theory about the future. It’s a very practical matter facing local, state and federal government all over the world.

In U.S. cities and states like San Diego, San Jose, Wisconsin, California, plus many others, the governments are beginning to look a lot like Greece. Cities and states are trashing their promises to retired employees and cutting pensions. The reason:** Not enough money.**
 
ACCT said:
… Die-Hard Faith in the Supposedly “Limitless Power” Of Government to Prevent Financial Disasters …
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I would change this to read, Die-Hard Faith in Government.
“Nø, they can’t.”
 
Robert_Sock said:
In reply to the fact that the Catholic Church does not accept socialism, keep in mind that we are going through extremely rapid social changes and that issues such as socialism tend to change. I cannot imagine a social system without some form (degree) of socialism, like Social Security.

Whatever system, we as Catholics need to end poverty worldwide.
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Yes, socialistic tendendies seem to be increasing, however, I don’t believe that it is a good thing, it is part of the consistent moral decline we see so obviously in the world today. The link between socialism and Godlessness is very strong, as evidenced by it’s history in this world.

Saying that we need to end poverty worldwide is the same as saying we need to create heaven here on earth. That will be impossible. Poverty will never end on this earth, only in heaven. Jesus said, “The poor will always be with you”, and I believe that. They will always be there, because we need them in order to be charitable. It is a misguided belief that we could even ever end poverty. Human nature indicates how impossible that would be. State run welfare only dehumanizes both the giver and the receiver, making the forced giver resentful and the receiver dependent. Has not that been the course of the last 100 years?

Christ never said that charity was the state’s responsibility, and to believe so is to ignore his teachings. State charity is the mantra of those that don’t want it to be their responsibility, as Christ said it had to be. State charity is the mantra of those who do NOT want to face the poor eye to eye, see their suffering, and be compelled to help. State charity is the conscience soothing proposition for those that are tired of being called to be charitible.

Charity is an individual responsibility. We can only be rewarded for charity that we freely practice, and the Lord knows we need the grace that comes from charity. It is only slavery to be compelled, through threat of lethal force, to be ‘charitible’, and there is no grace in charity if you have no choice.
 
We should certainly always try to help the poor in whatever way possible. We are commanded by Christ to do this individually. Western nations at this point in history, however, can not be of much help to the poor of the world when they are themselves bankrupt. Their debts far exceed their ability to pay.
 
ACCT said:
You should be thinking about your own poverty. There can only be one possible explanation for this pathological complacency: Die-Hard Faith in the Supposedly “Limitless Power” Of Government to Prevent Financial Disasters

A world changing event is about to permanently alter your life! This monumental event will plunge vast numbers of families into the nightmare of poverty, homelessness and hunger. In the worst case scenario, you will see soaring crime, the confiscation of property, the suspension of civil rights, and even martial law enforcement by the U.S. military.

For the first time in modern history, governments themselves are in need of the giant bailouts. Needless to say, this raises serious doubts about their future ability to rescue bankrupt banks, insurance companies or industrial conglomerates. This is not just a theory about the future. It’s a very practical matter facing local, state and federal government all over the world.

In U.S. cities and states like San Diego, San Jose, Wisconsin, California, plus many others, the governments are beginning to look a lot like Greece. Cities and states are trashing their promises to retired employees and cutting pensions. The reason:** Not enough money.**
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As Saint Paul: states: In all things, God works for the good. As a nation: In God is our trust.
 
Governments rarely prevent financial collapses. They almost invariably intervene only AFTER the collapse has struck.

History proves that it’s only at an advanced stage of the crisis that governments can gather the political and financial capital to respond. Result: By the time the official rescue squad finally reaches the scene of the disaster, countless investors are already buried under the rubble.
 
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