Government Greed

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Anti-capitalist, of which there is no small representation among the Catholic clergy, seem to believe that greed is something unique to, or at least primarily represented by, the market economy. Thus the perpetual calls for government regulation of the economy and commerce.
The typical formulation is: identify a problem, put the government in charge of fixing it. They are “public servants” after all.

Government greed seems almost to be an oxymorn to them except when politicians become captive to the “financial elite”:
ralfyman said:
It’s not so much government as governments working for the financial elite. That is why we have a global economy controlled essentially the latter, leading to the problems raised in this thread.
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The implication seems to be that if only government could be freed of the evil influence of greedy financiers, all would be well.

But government greed is very real and particularly destructive in ways that anticapitalists cannot seem to fathom.

This article by Jonah Goldberg is the best short description I have ever read:
Now, I don’t believe we are becoming anything like 1930s Russia, never mind a real-life 1984. But this idea that bureaucrats — very broadly defined — can become their own class bent on protecting their interests at the expense of the public seems not only plausible but obviously true.
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nationalreview.com/article/380812/bureaucrats-bureaucrats-bureaucrats-jonah-goldberg
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
Anti-capitalist, of which there is no small representation among the Catholic clergy, seem to believe that greed is something unique to, or at least primarily represented by, the market economy.
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Can you provide an example of someone making this claim?
 
People are people whether in government or the private sector. They will as a group always act in their self interest.
 
The truth is we are all “Greedy” as Milton Friedman was famous saying. Greed for lack of a better word is good… you can take the rest of that quote from Michael Douglas(Gordon Geko) speech in the original Wall Street.

As Aristotle liked to do we have to define our terms. Greed in this case means thirst, hunger desire not selfishness the two are often intertwined. Greed for material possessions for their own sake is wrong but greed for material wealth to help us and others is a good thing. People could never understand how I could claim to be a Catholic when I was running and growing my business. What they never could see was all the jobs I gave people

People commonly say something like; " that evil greedy corporation" ,what they almost never stop to think about is corporations are made up of people. On one hand they want that corporation to do well and be as profitable as possible, it is after all where most people keep some amount of their assets, namely stocks. On the other hand they expect it to operate at some arbitrary profit margin I assume set by the government. It really makes no sense.

The other mistake often made when discussing this subject is to quote Milton Friedman again “where are we going to get these Angels to run society?” The government is the biggest corporation in the world, the difference between it and any for profit private corporation is it alone has police power, it can forcibly take what is yours. Private corporations have no such power they are beholden to the market place.

A third thing forgotten about is our society decided to grant tax exemptions and non profit status to all kinds of religious groups and other organizations so that they could help society. We used to recognize the idea of “subsidiarity”. We have long departed from that concept in lieu of a central government solution. Regretfully most people don’t even understand this concept but one need not be an economics major to understand that solutions to problems are best addressed at the lower level.

The worst problem is that Catholic clergy and lay people alike mistakenly think that higher taxes and government solutions will rid the world of all its woes. This is why you see so many Catholic lay people endorse pro-choice politicians. They believe the “social justice” issues triumph the life issue. They could not be more wrong, and the clergy does little to guide them.

People in general are not selfish. Ronald Reagan demonstrated this whether knowingly or not when he reduced the tax rate. In order to stimulate the then fledging US economy Reagan sought congress to cut the marginal tax rate from 72 to 28 %. Many of his detractors thought it would not work and the government should be the recipient of tax payer money to stimulate the economy, an idea the previous administration attempted with no success. Although it took some time the economy began to soar and many economists credit the strong US economy through the early 200’s as a benefit of this tax reduction. A side effect for this conversation is that charitable contributions went through the roof and people of all economic levels were lifted. Why in God’s name this isn’t more obvious to people is beyond me.

The bottom line is we are called to help the poor not only with our financial resources but with ourselves. Many people need someone in their life not just money. As we move more and more into the electronic socialization of society many people are becoming increasingly isolated and filled with despair. Drop a dollar in the Church basket but find someone who needs comfort and the comfort only another human can bring them.

For those interested in studying more about this topic I would recommend listening to FR. Robert Sirico at the Acton Institute. He is a former leftist who woke up.

There is a video on my website of a speech he gave at Steubenville University under Catholic Videos and a link to his website under Catholic links The speech is a great overview on the subject and those wishing to learn more are encouraged to visit his website.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
Anti-capitalist, of which there is no small representation among the Catholic clergy, seem to believe that greed is something unique to, or at least primarily represented by, the market economy. Thus the perpetual calls for government regulation of the economy and commerce.
The typical formulation is: identify a problem, put the government in charge of fixing it. They are “public servants” after all.

Government greed seems almost to be an oxymorn to them except when politicians become captive to the “financial elite”:

The implication seems to be that if only government could be freed of the evil influence of greedy financiers, all would be well.

But government greed is very real and particularly destructive in ways that anticapitalists cannot seem to fathom.

This article by Jonah Goldberg is the best short description I have ever read:

nationalreview.com/article/380812/bureaucrats-bureaucrats-bureaucrats-jonah-goldberg
Click to expand...
Governments essentially work for the financial elite, which in turn controls money supply and the global economy.

Governments cannot be freed from the latter because they rely on tax revenues. For the same reason, the middle class relies on the latter for credit, employment, and consumer goods.
 
I believe that most of us project our own greed onto others, especially those in government. How can the world grow to over seven billion people with corrupt and ignorant governments?

LOVE! ❤️
 
Robert_Sock said:
I believe that most of us project our own greed onto others, especially those in government. How can the world grow to over seven billion people with corrupt and ignorant governments?

LOVE! ❤️
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Even the population of North Korea has grown and I don’t think anyone can dispute that it has a corrupt and ignorant government. So government greed does not seem to be an impediment to population growth.
 
ralfyman said:
Governments essentially work for the financial elite, which in turn controls money supply and the global economy.

Governments cannot be freed from the latter because they rely on tax revenues. For the same reason, the middle class relies on the latter for credit, employment, and consumer goods.
Click to expand...
As the article showed, government greed and corruption has nothing to do with the “financial elite”, it is far more fundamental and pervasive. History only confirms this; governments were greedy and corrupt long before the invention of the financial industry.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
As the article showed, government greed and corruption has nothing to do with the “financial elite”, it is far more fundamental and pervasive. History only confirms this; governments were greedy and corrupt long before the invention of the financial industry.
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Is there anyone who claims that governments cannot be greedy?
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
As the article showed, government greed and corruption has nothing to do with the “financial elite”, it is far more fundamental and pervasive. History only confirms this; governments were greedy and corrupt long before the invention of the financial industry.
Click to expand...
Much of money supply is created by private corporations, not by central banks or governments. That’s why even the commonly known money multiplier phenomenon is a myth:

“The myth of the money multiplier”

businessspectator.com.au/article/2012/10/22/commodities/myth-money-multiplier

And why the same elite managed to create over a quadrillion dollars (notional value) in unregulated derivatives:

“Top Derivatives Expert Estimates Size of the Global Derivatives Market at $1,200 Trillion Dollars … 20 Times Larger than the Global Economy”

washingtonsblog.com/2012/05/top-derivatives-expert-finally-gives-a-credible-estimate-of-the-size-of-the-global-derivatives-market.html

That is also why, not surprisingly, the ones who control the global economy are not governments:

“Revealed – the capitalist network that runs the world”

newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed–the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html
 
ralfyman said:
Much of money supply is created by private corporations…
“Revealed – the capitalist network that runs the world”
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See the article in the OP which has nothing to do with the “capitalist network that runs the world”.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
See the article in the OP which has nothing to do with the “capitalist network that runs the world”.
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I am not countering the topic but adding to it. That is, the government is greedy and works for the financial elite.

That’s why most money is created by private banks, not by central banks. That’s also why, for the U.S. in particular, the central bank is a consortium of private banks. Finally, that’s also why much of the global economy is controlled by private corporations, not governments, and why the U.S. government readily provided bailouts to Wall Street.
 
In addition, military costs and the use of foreign policies to coerce other countries, not to mention keeping the petro-dollar propped up, are meant to allow the financial elite to maintain power and become richer. The middle class supports both the government and the financial elite in return for easy credit, jobs, and consumer goods.
 
Robert_Sock said:
I believe that most of us project our own greed onto others, especially those in government. How can the world grow to over seven billion people with corrupt and ignorant governments?
Click to expand...
What are you implying? That corrupt, greedy governments could have had all the world at heel and call for the extermination of the human race as they see fit? How do you think Hitler’s Germany lost!?

The answer is obvious. No single government in the world even has the sufficient firepower to exterminate all dissenting citizenry (let alone mobs of critics from all over the world). Not all governments are even the same. They’re no more of the same mind as global corporations.

And just like corporations, we the people have just as much right to put them out of power as when we put them in. Ironically, any dictator who says otherwise only creates more of that same revolution that seeks to overthrow them.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
What are you implying? That corrupt, greedy governments could have had all the world at heel and call for the extermination of the human race as they see fit? How do you think Hitler’s Germany lost!?

The answer is obvious. No single government in the world even has the sufficient firepower to exterminate all dissenting citizenry (let alone mobs of critics from all over the world). Not all governments are even the same. They’re no more of the same mind as global corporations.

And just like corporations, we the people have just as much right to put them out of power as when we put them in. Ironically, any dictator who says otherwise only creates more of that same revolution that seeks to overthrow them.
Click to expand...
Trust in God’s wisdom and stop judging.

LOVE! ❤️
 
ralfyman said:
I am not countering the topic but adding to it. That is, the government is greedy and works for the financial elite.

That’s why most money is created by private banks, not by central banks. That’s also why, for the U.S. in particular, the central bank is a consortium of private banks. Finally, that’s also why much of the global economy is controlled by private corporations, not governments, and why the U.S. government readily provided bailouts to Wall Street.
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If you want to make a list of special interests who use government for their own purposes, that will be a long list.
 
ralfyman said:
I don’t think I have to as long as others agree with what I’ve written.
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The impression you leave is that you believe in a world-wide conspiracy of the “financial elite” that explains all economic and social ills. I doubt everyone agrees with that. I certainly don’t.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
The impression you leave is that you believe in a world-wide conspiracy of the “financial elite” that explains all economic and social ills. I doubt everyone agrees with that. I certainly don’t.
Click to expand...
It’s not a conspiracy. There is a lot of evidence showing that unregulated derivatives are responsible for the recent crash, that the government provided bailout money at near-zero or zero interest, that the bailout money was used for even more financial speculation, that similar asset bubbles are now appearing in Asia and elsewhere, and so forth.
 
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