Grace & Justification

[ALLFORHIM]

I’m sure there are many words that are in the Catholic Faith of which you’ve never heard. Please don’t assume that you’ve heard it all just because you read the bible.

It could be a dictionary or list of words in a certain book’s glossary… or just a list of words that one can put together for themselves.

Hi,
Thank you for the definition. I understand and your right there are words I have learned by being here. It is just that justification is used by the CC because it is in the bible. That is why I was shocked. Oh well, you learn something new everyday —right:thumbsup:

 

[Al_Masetti]

"Hi,
Are you serious? You really never heard the word justification ever or am I misunderstanding your post?Can I assume you read the bible?Because it is in there.

What does lexicon mean? I have never heard that word before."

“Lexicon” is a word I have lived with my whole life. It is an ordinary daily secular word … used frequently in word games such as Scrabble, for example, and in discussion of, for example, foreign languages or technical topics (aviation, maritime, law, psychology, etc.)

The Catholic Church wrote the New Testament. In 12 years of religious education, while we studied the New and Old Testament, we also covered a lot of other material

The basis of the education was the various editions of the Baltimore Catechism.

It covers the same basic ground of Catholic teaching as the new Catechism of the Catholic Church, but is designed to be easier for young people to digest.

---

It appears that different faiths seem to emphasize different aspects of the Bible. For example, the Catholic Church puts emphasis on John 6: 20-70 … among other things.

However, in my history, there hasn’t been any Catholic emphasis on the word “justification”.

However, also in my history, I have never heard and only once read any Protestant reference to or discussion of the word “transsubstantiation”. So, it works both ways.

By the way, the one time I read a Protestant discussion of “transsubstantiation” was when someone claimed it was false and made up.

 

[Fidelis]

Not for any particualr reason, but just FYI, some examples From the Catholic Douay-Rheims:

Ac 13:38 -
Be it known therefore to you, men, brethren, that through him forgiveness of sins is preached to you: and from all the things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Ac 13:39 -
In him every one that believeth is justified.

Ro 2:13 -
For not the hearers of the law are just before God: but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Ro 3:20 -
Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be** justified** before him. For by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Ro 3:24 -
Being **justified **freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Ro 3:28 -
For we account a man to be justified by faith, without the works of the law.

Ro 4:2 -
For if Abraham were **justified **by works, he hath whereof to glory, but not before God.

Ro 5:1 -
Being **justified **therefore by faith, let us have peace with God, through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ro 5:9 -
Christ died for us. Much more therefore, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from wrath through him.

Ro 6:7 -
For he that is dead is **justified **from sin.

Ro 8:30 -
And whom he predestinated, them he also called. And whom he called, them he also justified. And whom he justified, them he also glorified.

1Co 6:11 -
And such some of you were. But you are washed: but you are sanctified: but you are justified: in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God.

Ga 2:16 -
But knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, we also believe in Christ Jesus, that we may be **justified **by the faith of Christ and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Ga 2:17 -
But if, while we seek to be justified in Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ then the minister of sin? God forbid!

Ga 3:11 -
But that in the law no man is justified with God, it is manifest: because the just man liveth by faith.

Ga 3:24 -
Wherefore the law was our pedagogue in Christ: that we might be **justified **by faith.

Ga 5:4 -
You are made void of Christ, you who are **justified **in the law: you are fallen from grace.

1Ti 3:16 -
And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels, hath been preached unto the Gentiles, is believed in the world, is taken up in glory.

Tit 3:7 -
That, being justified by his grace, we may be heirs according to hope of life everlasting.

Jas 2:21 -
Was not Abraham our father **justified **by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jas 2:24 -
Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?

Jas 2:25 -
And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers and sending them out another way?

Re 22:11 -
He that hurteth, let him hurt still: and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is just, let him be **justified **still: and he that is holy, let him be sanctified still.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

The Catholic Church wrote the New Testament.

Hi, Thanks for the definition. I just want to clarify the above comment for you. The CC did not write the bible. The bible was written by God through men inspired by the Holy Spirit.

However, in my history, there hasn’t been any Catholic emphasis on the word “justification”.

I highly suggest that you study what justification is because it has everything to do with your salvation.

However, also in my history, I have never heard and only once read any Protestant reference to or discussion of the word “transsubstantiation”. So, it works both ways.

Yes, I agree. I was raised Episcopalian and I had never heard the word transubstantiation until less then a year ago. Im forty.

By the way, the one time I read a Protestant discussion of “transsubstantiation” was when someone claimed it was false and made up.

Yes that is correct. We do believe that. Well most protestants anyway.

If you stay on these forums you will learn a whole lot more about Catholocism and other religions as well.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Saints Jerome, Ambrose and Augustine worked on assembling the New Testament, circa AD 390 +/-.

 

[pumpqeen]

Show me your works without faith, and I shall show you my faith with my works.

A man who has faith will obey God’s instructions. Its as simple as that. If you love a person, you will MANIFEST that love.

Any one who calls himself a christian but does not walk in the light is a liar. Such a person has no faith to begin with, what less is there to talk even about GRACE?

 

[simbagizmo]

I typically do not quote outside of Scripture but thought this was interesting from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation. “Since “without faith it is impossible to please [God]” and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life ‘But he who endures to the end.’”

We may not be so far apart after all

 

[Al_Masetti]

Hi, Thanks for the definition. I just want to clarify the above comment for you. The CC did not write the bible. The bible was written by God through men inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The “Bible” (from the Greek word for “book” includes the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Which came first, the New Testament or the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church (Christianity) was “formed” around AD33.

The New Testament was assembled around AD 390.

 

[AlegreFe]

1 John 5:16
If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that.

Above shows that a christian’s salvation is still NOT secured upon baptism.

All Catholics are very aware of this fact. It is not the Catholic Church that says, “once saved always saved.” I certainly never stated that in any of my posts.

I first received Sanctifying Grace at Baptism but I did not receive actual Graces. Why? Because I was a baby. How can I decide what to do?

A person does not receive actual graces until they start learning about God and who Jesus Christ is. In the Catholic Church, a person makes their First Reconciliation and then First Holy Communion at which point received Sanctifying Grace. They then receive actual graces to start acting out their faith and God at that point gives more graces so that they can perform acts of love and also so that they can go to Confession. At Confession they receive Sanctifying Grace and then receive Jesus Christ in Holy Communion. At that point they are in a State of Grace. They are clean from all sins. But in order to stay in a State of Grace they must continue to detest sin, live a holy life, love others and show compassion whenever needed. One keeps going to confession because no one is perfect and again God forgives them and they are in a State of Grace again. It’s an on-going process. Conversion does not happen at any one point at any one time. It happens constantly, every day of your life.

My point with this thread is that without God’s Grace one cannot have Faith. Do you think you can muster up faith all on your own without God?

What comes first? Grace or Faith? I think if anyone here would re-read some of the posts in here and in Manny’s Ten Commandments thread, you might understand what we mean by this.

How can I follow any of the Ten Commandments without God’s Grace. For some, maybe you can understand better if I take out the word Grace. How can I follow the Ten Commandments without God? After all we all know that God is Grace right? And we all know that without God I can do nothing.

• God is Grace
• God is Love
• God is Mercy
• God is Light

I guess we can keep going with what God is but we can stop there for now.

 

[AlegreFe]

Show me your works without faith, and I shall show you my faith with my works.

A man who has faith will obey God’s instructions. Its as simple as that. If you love a person, you will MANIFEST that love.

Any one who calls himself a christian but does not walk in the light is a liar. Such a person has no faith to begin with, what less is there to talk even about GRACE?

You just don’t get it do you? :nope: No, you don’t.

I agree with your statements here and of course with the Bible quote. But you have to ask yourself… HOW can someone have Faith? HOW can anyone muster up Faith all on their own? HOW can anything happen without God? It doesn’t. NOTHING happens without God saying the word first to make it happen.

3 Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. Gen 1:3

Do you think you can have Faith all on your own without God? I don’t think so. I know you couldn’t. So how can you say that Faith is what saves you. Your acts of Faith save you because God gave you the Graces to act out your Faith, otherwise you cannot have Faith and therefore cannot be saved. So in the end, GRACE is what saves you. But I think anyone would know that if you don’t accept that Grace to act out your Faith then you will not be saved.

 

[AlegreFe]

I typically do not quote outside of Scripture but thought this was interesting from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation. “Since “without faith it is impossible to please [God]” and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life ‘But he who endures to the end.’”

We may not be so far apart after all

We aren’t. I agree with this. I have to accept God’s Graces to have Faith in Jesus Christ. If I don’t accept God’s Grace then how can I have Faith. I have Faith and therefore I have accepted the Graces that God gave me so that I can act out my Faith. I love Jesus Christ very much and so I want to obey His Commandments to Love God and to Love YOU. :yup:

Since I accept God’s Graces, I can now have Faith and if I act out that Faith with Love, God will give me MORE Graces to keep going every day of my LIFE. :yup:

 

[simbagizmo]

We aren’t. I agree with this. I have to accept God’s Graces to have Faith in Jesus Christ. If I don’t accept God’s Grace then how can I have Faith. I have Faith and therefore I have accepted the Graces that God gave me so that I can act out my Faith. I love Jesus Christ very much and so I want to obey His Commandments to Love God and to Love YOU. :yup:

Since I accept God’s Graces, I can now have Faith and if I act out that Faith with Love, God will give me MORE Graces to keep going every day of my LIFE. :yup:

I think we are in agreement here, so is it acceptable to you to use the following definition:

Faith - the decision to depend solely on Jesus Christ and accept him as Lord through which one is saved and receives the grace of salvation.

Through Faith one is justified.

By saying we are saved by Grace, though accurate to you and me, is alittle misleading by itself. For this can insinuate that anyone Jesus calls, since it is by grace one is called, is saved. And this is not accurate for many are called and few are saved. It would be more accurate to say that we are saved through Faith. Because this states that one must put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ to be saved.

Is this acceptable?

 

[AlegreFe]

I think we are in agreement here, so is it acceptable to you to use the following definition:

Faith - the decision to depend solely on Jesus Christ and accept him as Lord through which one is saved and receives the grace of salvation.

Through Faith one is justified.

But only because we accepted the Grace to have that faith. Yes. :yup:

simbagizmo:

By saying we are saved by Grace, though accurate to you and me, is alittle misleading by itself. For this can insinuate that anyone Jesus calls, since it is by grace one is called, is saved. And this is not accurate for many are called and few are saved. I agree! It would be more accurate to say that we are saved through Faith. I wouldn’t say “more.” Because this states that one must put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ to be saved. :yup: Yes we are to put our Faith in Jesus Christ to save us.

Is this acceptable?

Most of it is, but not all. That “more” got to me. It’s more of “both” are accurate because we have to acknowledge that without God we can do nothing. So without God’s Grace we cannot have Faith. I have to ACCEPT that Grace that God gives me and work with it. I have to act out my faith by showing my works that God prepared for me so that I can live in them. I have to put Faith in Jesus Christ and I have to TRUST in Jesus. My Divine Mercy image says that. Jesus said to trust in Him.

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And that is why I thank God for the Graces He gives me so that I can Trust in Jesus Christ.

 

[pumpqeen]

AlegreFe, I agree with your points. If God does not even call us, can we even be christians to begin with?

But we are not rewarded for the grace, we are rewarded for our faith. We are not justified for grace, we are justified for faith. Faith is our duty, Grace is a gift.

God gave us the grace for our insufficiencies, it is our duty to perform our acts of faith. Without grace, there is no faith to begin with, true. But without faith, there is still grace.

 

[simbagizmo]

I think we are really getting closer

VATICAN CITY (CNS) – Even those who spend their lives serving the church must recognize that faith alone will save them, the preacher of the papal household told Pope Benedict XVI and his closest aides.

 

[AlegreFe]

AlegreFe, I agree with your points. If God does not even call us, can we even be christians to begin with?

But we are not rewarded for the grace, we are rewarded for our faith. We are not justified for grace, we are justified for faith. Faith is our duty, Grace is a gift.

God gave us the grace for our insufficiencies, it is our duty to perform our acts of faith. Without grace, there is no faith to begin with, true. But without faith, there is still grace.

:yup: I agree with you here. This is what I was trying to get across. I’m always hearing, “Faith Alone” … “Faith Alone”… so I was not sure that it was known that without Grace we cannot have Faith.

I never said that we were rewarded for our Grace. I stated that by showing our Faith with good works we will get the Graces that we need to live in this world as God wants us to. That is reward, getting the Grace because we showed our Faith.

God gave us the Grace for our insufficiencies because we show our Faith. But you’re right we don’t have to show Faith to get “habitual” Graces; my point exactly. Because if we had to show our Faith to get Graces, then none of us would be Christians, and my baptism was for nothing. And that is why I believe in my baptism because I received Sanctifying Grace when I was a baby and original sin was removed. And we certainly don’t have to show our Faith to get actual graces.

If you are older and have not been baptized yet you will receive actual graces so that you can show your Faith. These actual graces will NOT remove sin. Then if you are a Christian that believes in Baptism you will then get baptized and get Sanctifying Grace which takes away original sin plus all your own sins.

We are Justified by Grace Through Faith and Works

 

[AlegreFe]

One is justified therefore by sanctifying grace through the
Sacrament of Baptism simply if one is an infant or child (before
the use of reason); Or if one is old enough, first by an actual
grace of faith (an ad hoc grace which does not remove sin yet),
then by habitual Sanctifying grace given by Baptism, bringing
God into the soul with all the attending virtues in the spiritual
faculties.

Justification is essentially sanctifying grace, an habitual
indwelling grace (not directly experienced) which brings the Trinity
to dwell in the soul as in a temple because of immersion into
Christ. This graces makes us right with God to be vessels of the
Trinity. Faith as the beginning of justification is for the adult first
an actual grace accepted, i.e., a help given to accept or believe
God; believe in God and believe towards God through Christ.

 

[AlegreFe]

Through baptism man’s nature is partially healed by sanctifying
grace, which removes sin and makes one a child of God.
However, the restoring of divine life to the soul is not enough. The
soul must be moved in order to perform supernatural acts. That
is, sanctifying or habitual grace must express itself in action; and
for this man needs additional helps called actual graces. So man
depends on God for his supernatural life through SANCTIFYING
GRACE, and depends on Him for his supernatural acts through
Actual Grace.

Actual Grace
God’s temporary enlightenment of our mind or strengthening of
our will to perform supernatural actions that help us obtain, retain,
or grow in sanctifying grace.

For example, God may give us actual grace that strengthens our
will to go to Daily Mass. If we do go, our attendance and
reception of the Holy Eucharist strengthens our sanctifying grace.

Actual grace with which we freely consent to cooperate is called
efficacious grace, because it accomplishes God’s purpose in
granting it. Actual grace to which we freely refuse consent is
called sufficient grace, because it would have been sufficient to
accomplish God’s purpose. Our decision to cooperate or not
cooperate belongs to the will.

 

[AlegreFe]

2001 The preparation of man for the reception of grace
is already a work of grace. This latter is needed to
arouse and sustain our collaboration in justification
through faith, and in sanctification through charity.
God brings to completion in us what he has begun,
“since he who completes his work by cooperating
with our will began by working so that we might will it:”

Indeed we also work, but we are only collaborating with God who
works, for his mercy has gone before us. It has gone before us so
that we may be healed, and follows us so that once healed, we
may be given life; it goes before us so that we may be called, and
follows us so that we may be glorified; it goes before us so that
we may live devoutly, and follows us so that we may always live
with God: for without him we can do nothing.
Catechism of the Catholic Church

 

[AlegreFe]

I think we are really getting closer

VATICAN CITY (CNS) – Even those who spend their lives serving the church must recognize that faith alone will save them, the preacher of the papal household told Pope Benedict XVI and his closest aides.

Come on, you know better than to post something like this and not give a source. Source please? I’m curious as to what else this states. There is always something else that goes along with a certain statement. Just like Sacred Scripture.

I’ve never seen this. Not that this is not legit. I don’t doubt it if you posted it. But can we please have a link or at least the name of the book or article where you got this?

Never mind, I found it.

Here’s the link for that article.