Grace preceeding Faith (Eph 2:8-9)

  • Thread starter Thread starter mawst
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mawst

Guest
Hi,

I’m having an ongoing debate with someone regarding the following passages of Sacred Scripture.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God.

Eph 2:9 Not of works, that no man may glory.

My contention is that this verse confirms the notion that one cannot come to faith without grace. The opponent is arguing that the verse says that without faith you cannot have grace.

Are there any other verses I can use to support my position?
 
Hi,

I’m having an ongoing debate with someone regarding the following passages of Sacred Scripture.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God.

Eph 2:9 Not of works, that no man may glory.

My contention is that this verse confirms the notion that one cannot come to faith without grace. The opponent is arguing that the verse says that without faith you cannot have grace.

Are there any other verses I can use to support my position?
It is by grace we are able to have faith. Faith is a gift from God that comes by way of his grace.
 
Hi,

I’m having an ongoing debate with someone regarding the following passages of Sacred Scripture.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God.

Eph 2:9 Not of works, that no man may glory.

My contention is that this verse confirms the notion that one cannot come to faith without grace. The opponent is arguing that the verse says that without faith you cannot have grace.

Are there any other verses I can use to support my position?
Both are true. They do not oppose, but rather complement one another. You are arguing two sides of the same coin. Faith is a theological virtue and all virtues come from God. However, we are also saved by the grace that comes through our faith. So, it begins with God and ends also with Him - Who is the Alpha and Omega.
 
Hi,

I’m having an ongoing debate with someone regarding the following passages of Sacred Scripture.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God.

Eph 2:9 Not of works, that no man may glory.

My contention is that this verse confirms the notion that one cannot come to faith without grace. The opponent is arguing that the verse says that without faith you cannot have grace.

Are there any other verses I can use to support my position?
Apologies, allow me to clarify. The person I’m debating is denying that grace precedes Faith.
 
Apologies, allow me to clarify. The person I’m debating is denying that grace precedes Faith.
Summa Contra Gentiles no. 152
1.Now, as a result of divine grace causing charity in us, it is also necessary for faith to be caused in us by grace.

[4] Besides, whenever something is moved by an agent to what is proper to the agent, the thing moved must be, at the start, imperfectly subject to the impulsions of the agent, impulsions that remain somewhat foreign and improper to it, until at the end of the movement they do become proper to it. For example, wood is first heated by fire, and that heat does not belong to the wood but is apart from its nature; at the end, however, when the wood is now ignited, the heat becomes proper and connatural to it. Likewise, when a person is being taught by a teacher, he must at the start accept the teacher’s conceptions, not as one who understands them by himself, but by way of belief, as things which are beyond his capacity; but at the end, when he has become learned, he can understand them. Now, as is clear from what we have said, we are directed by the help of divine grace to our ultimate end. But the ultimate end is an open vision of the First Truth in Itself, as we showed above. Therefore, before it comes to this end, man’s intellect must be subject to God by way of belief, under the influence of divine grace which accomplishes this.

Article 1. Whether faith is infused into man by God?

On the contrary, It is written (Ephesians 2:8-9): “By grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves . . . that no man may glory . . . for it is the gift of God.”

I answer that, Two things are requisite for faith. First, that the things which are of faith should be proposed to man: this is necessary in order that man believe anything explicitly. The second thing requisite for faith is the assent of the believer to the things which are proposed to him. Accordingly, as regards the first of these, faith must needs be from God. Because those things which are of faith surpass human reason, hence they do not come to man’s knowledge, unless God reveal them. To some, indeed, they are revealed by God immediately, as those things which were revealed to the apostles and prophets, while to some they are proposed by God in sending preachers of the faith, according to Romans 10:15: “How shall they preach, unless they be sent?”

1 Corinthians 4:7
For who distinguisheth thee? Or what hast thou that thou hast not received? And if thou hast received, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
Everything is grace, even our life itself because it is an act of Love of God. Faith is a theological virtue that has its object in God and comes from Him. This takes grace.
 
The Father sent the Son so that we could believe in Him.

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him. John 6: 44 NASB

The Bible in a Verse

But now once at the conclusion of the ages Jesus has
appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Hebrews 9: 26b
 
Hi,

I’m having an ongoing debate with someone regarding the following passages of Sacred Scripture.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God.

Eph 2:9 Not of works, that no man may glory.

My contention is that this verse confirms the notion that one cannot come to faith without grace. The opponent is arguing that the verse says that without faith you cannot have grace.

Are there any other verses I can use to support my position?
Can’t really have one without the other because the first thing that God graces us with is faith. But Protestantism and Catholicism generally agree that the initiative comes from God-**“We love Him because He first loved us”. “No one can come to the Father unless He draws him”. **
 
Hi,

I’m having an ongoing debate with someone regarding the following passages of Sacred Scripture.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God.

Eph 2:9 Not of works, that no man may glory.

My contention is that this verse confirms the notion that one cannot come to faith without grace. The opponent is arguing that the verse says that without faith you cannot have grace.

Are there any other verses I can use to support my position?
Catechism of the Catholic Church

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P6Z.HTM

2000 Sanctifying grace is an habitual gift, a stable and supernatural disposition that perfects the soul itself to enable it to live with God, to act by his love. Habitual grace, the permanent disposition to live and act in keeping with God’s call, is distinguished from actual graces which refer to God’s interventions, whether at the beginning of conversion or in the course of the work of sanctification.

2005 Since it belongs to the supernatural order, grace escapes our experience and cannot be known except by faith. We cannot therefore rely on our feelings or our works to conclude that we are justified and saved.56 However, according to the Lord’s words "Thus you will know them by their fruits"57 - reflection on God’s blessings in our life and in the lives of the saints offers us a guarantee that grace is at work in us and spurs us on to an ever greater faith and an attitude of trustful poverty.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__PX.HTM

155 In faith, the human intellect and will co-operate with divine grace: "Believing is an act of the intellect assenting to the divine truth by command of the will moved by God through grace."27

Romans 3:24 - ‘Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption, that is in Christ Jesus’

Romans 5:20-21 - ‘But law came in, in order that the offence might abound; but where sin abounded grace has overabounded, That as sin hath reigned to death; so also grace might reign by justice unto life everlasting, through Jesus Christ our Lord.’
 
Everything comes by God’s grace. It is the building block of everything Christian. It’s the foundation that everything else is built upon. So, yes, Grace precedes Faith.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top