Grace saves not our works! no works no heaven?

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littleone

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Ephesians 2:8-10
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. Remember, “By grace are you saved,” .

If we look at this reading, and take others such as Jesus saying in a parable the same as Revelations says, "The goats came up to God and said Lord! Lord! we cast out demons in Your name we healed the sick in Your name…and Jesus said be gone from Me you evil doers?? The sheep came and Jesus said come to Me you who have done My Fathers will, and the sheep said, when did we do Your Fathers will? Jesus said when you did good to the least in My name giving to the poor visiting the ill, the imprisoned the infirmed, you did it to Me.

Now, the question: if it is not by our good works but by grace we are saved, then why does Jesus say to do good works to the poor the infirmed? When those (the goats) did what they thought was good works, and in Jesus name, they were hell bound. Why??? Seems contradidtory to me!
 
Because faith without works is dead.

May God bless and protect us,
JLC
 
littleone said:
Now, the question: if it is not by our good works but by grace we are saved, then why does Jesus say to do good works to the poor the infirmed?
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The simple answer is because God wants us to.

What we do can never be enough to actually save us. We need Grace for that. But that doesn’t mean that God doesn’t want us to do anything. He doesn’t want us to sit back on our faith and let him do all the work. He wants us to respond to his Grace by doing good things in his name.
 
Because the works themselves are the grace of God in us.

Jeremy
 
“…and the greatest of these is love.”

Love is understood by any and all faith community as an action, and equates to charity… action… doing for others and for the good of others.

We are saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, acting in Love.
 
We are saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, acting in Love.
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Why, then, does James then say we are saved by works, and not by faith alone?
 
How does one reconcile the sola fide viewpoint, which the title of this thread suggests, with James 2:24?
James 2:24 NJB:
You see now that it is by deeds, and not only by believing, that someone is justified
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Works done by our own power do nothing, but works done in cooperation with grace through faith are meritorious before God 👍
 
drforjc said:
Why, then, does James then say we are saved by works, and not by faith alone?
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First of all… James does not say that except out of context.

James 2:22ff

" You see that faith was active along with his (Abraham) worksand faith was completed by works … you see that man is justified by his faith, and not by works alone."

This teaches us that it (justification) is the result of both/and, not either/or.

.
 
littleone,
You cite Ephesians 2:8-10, but only quote verses 8 and 9. Go back and read verse 10, and read 11 as well. Anti-Catholics love to pull out verses 8 and 9 to try to prove that our belief in justification by faith AND works is against the Bible, but they are taking this out of context.
 
MrS said:
We are saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, acting in Love.
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I am not sure this statement is true. At the very least it is open to many misinterpretations.

You can not be saved by “Grace alone” since grace can be lost through sin. This statement does not consider that there is Sanctifying Grace and Actual Grace.

You can not be saved by ”Faith Alone.” This statement implies “once saved always saved.”

Adding the statement: “acting in Love” to “Grace alone” and “Faith alone” doesn’t forge these concepts together in a way that loses the separate meaning of each statement. It doesn’t blend them in a way that produces an accurate concept of salvation. God bless.
.
 
RCCDefender said:
littleone,
You cite Ephesians 2:8-10, but only quote verses 8 and 9. Go back and read verse 10, and read 11 as well. Anti-Catholics love to pull out verses 8 and 9 to try to prove that our belief in justification by faith AND works is against the Bible, but they are taking this out of context.
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I will do that and thanks for the point, I am at work so I don’t have my bible on me but will be home soon and after a sleep Ill tackel the situation.
 
MrS said:
First of all… James does not say that except out of context.

James 2:22ff

" You see that faith was active along with his (Abraham) worksand faith was completed by works … you see that man is justified by his faith, and not by works alone."

This teaches us that it (justification) is the result of both/and, not either/or.

.
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I don’t know what you’re reading, but 2:22 in my Bible says nothing like what you just wrote. It says, “So you can see that his faith was working together with his deeds; his faith became perfect by what he did.”

His faith was completed by his works. V22 only reinforced v24, the fact that, as someone else so eloquently put, our acts are meritous because of our faith.

I agree with you that faith AND works are necessary in our “salvation.” I think anyone who denies such after a reading of James 2 is fooling themselves. What I can’t understand is those people who deny that deeds have anything to do with it.
 
MrS said:
First of all… James does not say that except out of context.

James 2:22ff

" You see that faith was active along with his (Abraham) worksand faith was completed by works … you see that man is justified by his faith, and not by works alone."

This teaches us that it (justification) is the result of both/and, not either/or.

.
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I agree about the “both/and” but you said “faith alone” in your sentence.
Also your quote from James
"
You see that faith was active along with his (Abraham) worksand faith was completed by works … you see that man is justified by his faith, and not by works alone."
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does not agree with what I have when I look it up on an online RSV:
22] You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works,
23] and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God.
24] **You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
**25] And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26] For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.
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Given that James is talking about the corporal works of mercy, I 'm pretty certain I have not taken it out of context.
 
drforjc said:
Given that James is talking about the corporal works of mercy, I 'm pretty certain I have not taken it out of context.
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James is continuing in the instruction that includes Abraham… it is necessary to the both/and understanding, and is the example given to attest to that.

He surely could have used other examples, but my guess is that the people of the time would relate to Abraham quickly.

please re-read verse 22
 
littleone said:
Ephesians 2:8-10
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. Remember, “By grace are you saved,” .

If we look at this reading, and take others such as Jesus saying in a parable the same as Revelations says, "The goats came up to God and said Lord! Lord! we cast out demons in Your name we healed the sick in Your name…and Jesus said be gone from Me you evil doers?? The sheep came and Jesus said come to Me you who have done My Fathers will, and the sheep said, when did we do Your Fathers will? Jesus said when you did good to the least in My name giving to the poor visiting the ill, the imprisoned the infirmed, you did it to Me.

Now, the question: if it is not by our good works but by grace we are saved, then why does Jesus say to do good works to the poor the infirmed? When those (the goats) did what they thought was good works, and in Jesus name, they were hell bound. Why??? Seems contradictory to me!
Click to expand...
Great questions, the key to understanding an apparent conflict in Scripture is to realize there can be no conflict in Scripture. Sound confusing? It really isn’t, it means our understanding of at least one of the writing is incorrect, not that the writing is incorrect, but our understanding of it is. In one case we’re told grace no works, in another we’re told faith without works is dead. There is no conflict if you keep the Scripture in context. Paul is not referring to “works” of Christian charity in his writings, he’s referring to “works” of the Law, those things required to be a good Jew. Keep in mind the Apostles were told to preach to the Jews, Paul was told to preach to the gentiles. The arguments of the day (after Paul was accepted as an Apostle by the Church) was whether a person needed to follow the “works” of the Law prior to becoming a Christian. Paul said no, “works” of the Law were not required, which is correct, you don’t need to follow the Jewish Law. Remember the first century Church believed they were the Jewish faith fulfilled, not a separate faith. They continued going to the temple on the Sabbath, and met for the Eucharist on the “Lords day” or Sunday. It wasn’t until sometime after a.d. 70 when they were expelled from the temple that they became separate. The other Apostles were concerned with “works” of Christian charity, which of course is required. So each is true; you don’t need to do the “works” of the Law, which is Pauls message, you do need to do “works” of Christian charity which is the message of the “other” writers.
 
littleone said:
Ephesians 2:8-10
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. Remember, “By grace are you saved,” .

If we look at this reading, and take others such as Jesus saying in a parable the same as Revelations says, "The goats came up to God and said Lord! Lord! we cast out demons in Your name we healed the sick in Your name…and Jesus said be gone from Me you evil doers?? The sheep came and Jesus said come to Me you who have done My Fathers will, and the sheep said, when did we do Your Fathers will? Jesus said when you did good to the least in My name giving to the poor visiting the ill, the imprisoned the infirmed, you did it to Me.

Now, the question: if it is not by our good works but by grace we are saved, then why does Jesus say to do good works to the poor the infirmed? When those (the goats) did what they thought was good works, and in Jesus name, they were hell bound. Why??? Seems contradidtory to me!
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**You’re putting two passages which are talking about different things, side by side - and getting a phantom contradiction out of them 🙂 **​

**Consider an every day activity such as buying an apple - should one do so ? **

Answer 1: Yes - because stealing apples from shops is wrong
**Answer 2: No - because it is obviously rotten. **

**Both answers are right, each in its own way - yet they disagree verbally, because “yes” is contrary to “no”. Yet there is no contradiction - because they are looking at the same material activity (= the obtaining of an apple) from different points of view. So the answers to the two questions are different - yet both are perfectly appropriate. **

So it is with many seeming contradictions, such as this: different answers are implied, because different questions are implied. Sometimes, there will be real differences, not differences which in words only - but some, are verbal, & not real ##
 
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