Grandparents.

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jimmyd said:
In general throughout society grandparents have no legal rights to their grandchildren. If children are orphaned it is not certain the kids would go to the grandparents or extended family. No-one realises this until it happens to them and then the devastation sets it.
I don’t know that it should be “certain”. It also isn’t certain that all grandparents should get the children.

All the children’s organisations are reporting an increase in child abuse in the home due to the increasing use of drugs and alcohol abuse. The law is basically protecting the abuser by not granting legal contact to the grandparents and the abuse is not detected until the child/ren land up in hospital or worse.
**hmm, the grandparents who raised a drug and alcohol and child abuser?? No, I do NOT think parents are automaticly to blame for the problems of their children, but much of the time they most certainly are. I have 2 nephews who were given to my sister and my first thought was, “Oh great, this is just going to perpetuate the problem for another generation.”😦 **
As grandparents are legally irrelevant persons in their grandchildren’s lives they stand by helplessly knowing their grandchildren are being abused, but the law and social services do not recognise their importance. Who better is there to keep in touch for the protection of children.
**I don’t buy it. That sounds like blackmail. “Let me see or do whatever with my grandchildren or I’ll report you for abuse.” If the kids are being abused, they shouldn’t be in the home and the law should be contacted. It’s not protecting the children to have granny visit. If they are in physical danger, they should not be in that home. Period. In those cases, in the states, the courts will try to give custody to a relative, usually grandparents if they are deemed fit. If nothing else, they try family first because their just aren’t nearly enough foster families to go around.😦 **
Our last case was a granny reported her daughter’s new partner to the law and social services for head butting her 7 year old granddaughter. This man cannot see his own children because of his violence and is awaiting trial for the assault but is still living in the house. The granny has found out another assault has taken place but she has been banned from seeing the family now and the abuser is making the family say it was one of the other children who did it. They are living in terror of this man and the granny having no rights of contact could be arrested if she intervenes.
**Well I don’t see that happening here. Things must be very different. In my state if an adult in the home is reportedly abusing any of the children, the other adults are told point blank that the children will be removed unless the suspected abuser leaves the home. It doesn’t matter if it’s a parent or not. They have to go until the problem is resolved unless they want the kids in foster care. If granny thinks there has been more abuse, there is no reason she can’t report it. **
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Dear Robs Wife.

I’m really enjoying our lttle chats and It is very educating but i’m glad there is a huge ocean between us as the words are hitting hard enough.

Your seem to live in a perfect world. Your children must be angels and i’m happy for you if they are but it sounds like they wouldn’t dare be otherwise. In this day and age no-one can predict how their children will turn out unless the parents follow them everywhere. The best times of your life as a parent is when you can tuck them up in bed for the night and know they are safe. When they become teenagers and want to do it their way. Look out.

The blackmail you write about is practiced on the grandparents in order for them to see the grandchildren. We have a granny who is a millionare property owner and is blackmailed into supplying a flat and paying all the bills for the chance to see her granddaughter.

The evidence we have is overwhelming from thousands of grandparents. Can i take it you are collecting evidence of this sort yourself or is it your a personal opinion.

The problem of abuse here is that grandparents are irrelevent persons and like the case history i presented the granny reported to social services even to the detriment of losing contact. Now the granddaughter has no-one and the abuser is protected by the law. The child has still been abused and the granny is trying her heart out to get the powers to act.
 
jimmyd said:
…In general throughout society grandparents have no legal rights to their grandchildren. If children are orphaned it is not certain the kids would go to the grandparents or extended family…
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While grandparents may have no legal rights, they also don’t have any legal obligations. Of course it’s not certain that orphaned children would go to grandparents or extended family. If my children were left orphaned, I doubt that their paternal grandparents would want them all. With rights come responsibilities. Does your group also want to legally force other grandparents to care for and financially support orphaned grandchildren?
jimmyd said:
…Contact could be a minimum of a couple of hours a month, more by negotiation. The right to send and receive phone calls, texts, emails, cards and presents at special occasions. This would give the children an outside line to help if need be.
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Again, with rights come responsibilities. Would the parents of the grandchildren then by entitled to demand babysitting, gifts, and financial assistance for grandchildren’s college education? (You called such things “blackmail” in your last post.) If grandchildren have a “right” to grandparents, could some other grandparents be charged with “grandparental neglect” if they fail to provide cards, phone calls and presents?
jimmyd said:
…We are obviously not talking about real families where this type of thing does not happen. All that is required is for grandparents to have what the real families do already.
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While the situations you describe may be disfunctional families, they *are *“real families”. And not all “real families” have what you describe you want. My own parents are dead, leaving my children with no maternal grandparents. My husband’s parents are involved as much as they wish to be–which is less than what you describe you want for your grandchild.

I agree with your original post that in situations where the child is/children are completely orphaned that the state should first seek to place orphans with loving grandparents or extended family. (Provided, that the grandparents or other family member is willing to care for them.) But I think you tread on dangerous teritory when you invite the state into family matters such as grandparents visitation. Family courts are heavily overburdened because of divorce and other custody battles. Some make false allegations of abuse in effort to win custody. Real abuse sometimes goes undetected. Allowing forced grandparent visitation might help some children, but harm others. Just as some children are abused and neglected by their parents, some other children are abused and neglected by their grandparents.
 
Dear Gardenswithkids,

With rights come responsibilities. That is something I have been trying to work out. A wife left her husband for another man. While she was with her husband he had rights and responsibilities. Now she has left committing a mortal sin and the husband and children are the innocent party, done no wrong, but he still has his responsibilities but his rights have gone. He took it to court cost around £8,000. He obtained a contact order but his wife refused to comply and at the end of the day nothing came of it. No court will convict a mother on contempt of court, punishment, a fine or prison. He still does not have his rights. Who suffers, the children because they love their dad and want to see him. This flouting of the law is exclusive to mothers and makes a mockery of any countries law system and our government said they have no answer to it.

Grandparents can sue for legal contact if they have a genuine interest in the children and it will be granted if it is the best interests of the children. But it must be enforced.

Our group worked with the Scottish Government on the creation of ‘The Charter for Grandchildren’ which started out as ‘The Charter for Grandparents’ but we accepted the change as long as it was in the best interests of the children but they refused to make it legal and it is for guidelines only. No-one is paying any attention to it.

Mediation is the best place to work out what is expected from both parents and grandparents as long as again, it is in ‘the best interests of the children’. Because of flouting of the law by the mother the question of charging grandparents is not viable.

Real families. Granted a wrong term used. Caring families with grandparents and parents who work together for the welfare of the children, would not dream of doing otherwise. Because grandparents can so easily be cast aside by obtaining a court order for no real reason it does not encourage mothers to work out any problems that arise.

In your last paragraph, we could argue about that till the cows come home but at the end of the day what we want is the best for our kids. If it’s not in their interest or they are not fit then grandparents are out and we would abide by that but not by a whim or just because the mother fancies a new boyfriend or the grandparents are not giving her enough money for the kids. If she desires a new life then nobody denies her that, we wouldn’t. With a little effort on behalf of the children it can be worked out.

We see our grandchildren every 3 months or so because of distance but they phone us up quite regular.
My two grandchildren in question are 13 and 15 the oldest is not to keen on coming up so often, she wants to stay with her friends but that is natural and we have no problems about that, at least they know we are here if they need us and there is no animosity.
 
jimmyd said:
That is not very christian like is it, and is also a onesided point of view. Do you not think your hatred is destroying your judgement.

I totally agree with you about the government not interfering in family life when all is well.

Recently it was stated that in Scotland 60,000, children were living in had drug related homes and 100.000 in alcohol related homes. So it just not about you.
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It may not be Christian but it is probably quite practical and puts the true welfare of the child first.

In America, many states have given rights to grandparents as well as done all they can to ‘preserve family ties’. Unfortunately the preservation of those ties often takes the place of common sense and the welfare of the child. We in California, for instance, have this huge push for ‘family reunificatin’. Well, if there was never a real family in the first place it is going to be very difficult to reunify it.
I worked in Social Services for 12 years and now work in Health Services. I saw a multi-generational problem with alcohol and drug abuse, sexual abuse and physical abuse. Giving custody of a precious child to someone who was the bad parent of that child’s bad parent is not always the answer.

We are very blessed in my family in that the grandparents of my niece and nephews, of my cousins etc are all loving, responsible and good people. The children, if something horrendous were to happen, would be safe with any of us. However, to insure their safety my brother and the other parents in my family have also made wills that state clearly who is to have custody of their children and control of their childrens’ funds until they reach their majority. We recognize quite clearly that we are very blessed and we are thankful for the Lord’s blessings in our lives.

Again, one can love the sinner but hate the sin and determine to keep their children as far away from hateful, nasty people as possible while still loving them in a solid Catholic manner.

I know you are in a lot of pain over your situation and I will pray for you and your group. It must be horrible to be seperated from your grandchildren when you have such love to share.
 
LSK

Thank you for that. I am not separated from my grandchildren now we have had contact for about 6 years. The pain we felt was bad but even worse when the children were not happy and the far reaching effects are slowly being erradicated with love and patience.

My wife and I started this group to help families not just grandparents. At the time we had nowhere to turn to. No groups or advisory service. The idea was to support grandparents while at the same time looking for ways to help them back into the family.

Our guidelines for grandparents has been very successful in reuniting them but it’s not an ideal situation if they are walking on eggshells all the time and if they say anything they are immediately banned again. They need to turn a blind eye to an awful lot. If the child was in real danger they know if they do something about it they lose the children for good.
 
Jimmyd,
The problem is that you can’t legislate morality. While I have to agree with you that most grandparents are wonderful people, not all are. Parents are the responsible party when it comes to the physical and emotional well being of their children. If they are not living up to their responsibilities, in an ideal world, close family would pick up the slack. Unfortunately, we don’t live in Utopia. Then again, by the time some grandparents try to help it may be too late…

I am sitting here at my office while my co-worker goes to try to find her child who decided not to go to school today. Of course she has only been to school 3-4 days since the first of the year. She hangs out at her house with friends and smokes pot and drinks rather than go to school. She is expecting the grandmother to bail her out and take custody of her wayward 16 yo. And no doubt her mom will… Here is the problem… why should she raise her grandaughter after raising her own chldren? Because she feels obligated or because she loves her daughter and grandaughter perhaps? How is grandma going to handle this child after she has been raised to do anything she wants and get anything she wants?

In the past week the police have been over to the house half a dozen times because she keeps having boys over against her mothers rules. The mother could have avoided all of this by being a responsible parent to begin with. Mom is never there. She practically lives with her boyfriend across town, so now she is confused that daughter is acting the same way??? If she didn’t want boys over she could have planted her bottom at home and refused to let them in… but it was inconvenient. Anyway, back to grandmom; I am sure she is willing and loves the kid, but what happens when the kid doesn’t get her way or gets tired of grandmom always being there? Will she hit her? Will she run away? Will she steal from grandmom when she can’t have the $150 tennis shoes her mom bought her to shut her up and buy her off?

This family is broken because mom didn’t act like a parent. So now it becomes all of our problems… grandmom, mom, daughter, police, neighbors, classmates, co-workers, etc. My son has 2 classes with this girl, if he even thinks about acting like her… well, let’s just say I think he knows what would happen. I have to listen to the mom gripe and complain all day and cover for her when she has to go find the kid or when the police get called to her house. This isn’t a family problem anymore is it?

Personally I would love to have grandparents for my kids that actually gave a darn. I have always had to do it all myself with no help. Even worse, I have to go behind after my kids grandparents have contact with them and do damage control. It’s especially bad when you have a step kid and grandma(my MIL) tells her she doesn’t have to listen to me. My own mom isn’t any better, she got mad at me so she refused to even call my daughter on her birthday… try explaining to a kid that it isn’t that grandma forgot, it’s that she is mad at her own daughter so she won’t talk to the grandchild.
 
Dear Blest one.

If they don’t deserve or honour the name grandparent or parent then they cannot expect to be treated as such.

The grandma you wrote about probably will step in because what comes out in our group is a lot of grandparents do feel obliged when their family goes off the track, they feel somehow responsible which is not always the case in this day and age. I say when a child says I want to do it my own way and it has been established that is what they really want, then they are no longer the responsibilities of the parent. I don’t mean they are not loved. We do still worry about them. But you have to let them go. If they are held back they will rebel. We can only hope their upbringing will help them through. With our family we found we had to let them go as a child and they did come back as a friend. Our oldest is a Professor to do with the brain and lectures in an English University. Our youngest is a Jeweller and is the manager of the shop. My daughter who died was a Dental Surgery Assistant in Glasgow’s Dental Hospital. We are very proud of them. I must say i worked long hours when the kids were young and my wife was just born to be a mother so all the credit goes to her.

The problem is grandparents don’t know how to let go. They have done it all before, got the T-shirt, seen the movie and are brimming with confidence. This comes over quite a lot as patronising and interfering to a young mother who needs to build her own confidence and do it her way. She needs to make her own mistakes… Once this is explained to grandparents to be there when asked take a back seat when not. The majority realise what is wrong and good changes are made.

Just today a granny I have been counselling phoned me to tell me she is back in her grandchildren’s life again. She could not thank us enough. The problem was, she felt responsible for the whole family and did not like her daughter’s husband because he made her pregnant before they were married. When I explained our system and said she needed to accept the whole family there was a big change, even her daughter said to her “mum there is something different about you and its good”

I know what you mean by damage control. This is where I think there should be some sort of family education classes in how to know your place in a family. We have mediation where we speak to the parents the grandparents then together which has worked when the mother comes along we would need the women’s groups to encourage them to attend. Everyone should put their own feelings to the side for the sake of the children.

Although we had a problem when our daughter died, it was very unfortunate that Joe made the wrong choice (his words not ours) but I really would like to try and prevent if we can, the heartbreak that we all felt, happening to other people.
 
jimmyd said:
If they don’t deserve or honour the name grandparent or parent then they cannot expect to be treated as such.
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Wow. You finally admitted it. NOT all biological grandparents have any need to see grandkids at all. If my father was still alive, I would not let him within 50 miles of my kids. No chance I would let him put them through the hell of abuse I went through as a child. Just because he would be biologically related to them does not mean he is fit to be in their presence.
You seem to think ALL grandparents should automatically have free rein. We are telling you that is not the case. The best interests of the kids should be first, and in many cases that would be to remain as far away as possible from the grandparent.
 
Teakafrog said:
Wow. You finally admitted it. NOT all biological grandparents have any need to see grandkids at all. If my father was still alive, I would not let him within 50 miles of my kids. No chance I would let him put them through the hell of abuse I went through as a child. Just because he would be biologically related to them does not mean he is fit to be in their presence.
You seem to think ALL grandparents should automatically have free rein. We are telling you that is not the case. The best interests of the kids should be first, and in many cases that would be to remain as far away as possible from the grandparent.
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I agree.
I’ve followed this thread with interest as my ten month old daughter has not met three of her four grandparents. The one she has ‘met’ was only once, the day after she was born. At this time, after much professional guidance and prayer, we don’t forsee a relationship between Sophia and our parents. They have untreated mental health issues and an inability to be reliably safe around my daughter, emotionally and otherwise.

Just as I recognize that most grandparents are healthy and should be included in their grandchildren’s lives, I would hope that grandparents participating in advocacy could recognize that ultimately it is up to the parent to make that decision and that in some cases, interaction it is not healthy. There seems to be a ripe sense of entitlement to children who are not their own. Yes, it’s a shame that these children miss out on a healthy relationship with grandparents, but it would be a deeper shame to subject them to abusive people merely because they are biologically related. Something my therapist points out is that God provides all of us in our needs, and she has encouraged me to have faith that He will bring important people into my daughter’s life who will meet that need of extended family in a different, but no less special, way. Friends are the family we choose for ourselves.
 
Princess_Abby said:
I agree.
Just as I recognize that most grandparents are healthy and should be included in their grandchildren’s lives, I would hope that grandparents participating in advocacy could recognize that ultimately it is up to the parent to make that decision and that in some cases, interaction it is not healthy. There seems to be a ripe sense of entitlement to children who are not their own. Yes, it’s a shame that these children miss out on a healthy relationship with grandparents, but it would be a deeper shame to subject them to abusive people merely because they are biologically related. Something my therapist points out is that God provides all of us in our needs, and she has encouraged me to have faith that He will bring important people into my daughter’s life who will meet that need of extended family in a different, but no less special, way. Friends are the family we choose for ourselves.
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:clapping: Thank you Abby! You said very much what I think on the matter. I’m the parent, not the gov’t and not the grandparents. Grandchildren are a privledge, not a right.

If a parent is a physical danger to the child, then getting “rights” to the kid is far less important to me than removing the danger to my grandchildren. Getting to see them on the weekend isn’t going to keep the parent or whoever from shooting drugs or beating the daylights out of their kid on Monday.
 
Teakafrog

The main people here are the children and if grandparents are a danger or not worthy to be grandparents then so be it. I would also say the same about parents.

There is no question of grandparents having a free rein on children. Just about all our grandparents do not want that anyway. The just want to be kept in their grandchildren’s lives to help if possible. The majority of grandparents do not sue for contact because of the upset it would cause the kids.

What would you say to grandchildren having the legal right of contact with their grandparents rather than the other way round. Would you allow that. Provided their is no violence. would you put the children first and put your feelings to the side even although it dosn’t suit your plans?
 
Dear Princess Abby,

That is a very sad story, just when you could be doing with all the help you can get.

Could you tell me what you consider is a good healthy relationship with grandparents.

It would be interesting to hear a few points of view on this subject if anybody else is reading this.
 
jimmyd said:
What would you say to grandchildren having the legal right of contact with their grandparents rather than the other way round. Would you allow that. Provided their is no violence. would you put the children first and put your feelings to the side even although it dosn’t suit your plans?
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Nope. For several reasons.
**1. Children shouldn’t be put first. Yes. That’s what I wrote. Children should NOT be put first. The world does not, should not, and never will, revolve around them. We do what is best for our nuclear family as a whole. **
2. Children do not know what is best for their family or even themselves and do not get a say in these things. It’s that simple. I’ll even go so far as to say I think it nearly abusive to give children such misplaced burdens. These decisions should be carried on the shoulders of adults, not children. And, like it or not, this is too much power for a kid to play between the adults. Any kid is going to sense that within about 5 seconds. In the end, the relationship of all 3 parties would likely be ruined.
3. As another said, with rights come responsiblities. Children are not responsible for forming a relationship with adults, including grandparents. I don’t think it appropriate to give them that responsibility. Should it end at grandparents? What about aunts, uncles, cousins, neighbors, friends? Who else should a kid have the right to go over their parents to have a relationship with?
 
jimmyd said:
Could you tell me what you consider is a good healthy relationship with grandparents.
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I don’t know what Abby thinks…
I think a good, healthy relationship with the grandparents is not possible without a good, healthy relationship between the parents and grandparents.
Now, that does not mean they have to agree on anything other than the basics:
- not to bad-mouth in any way, including dirty looks or insinuations
**- not to ever discuss the grandchildren when they are within hearing
- to never undermine each other’s authority, even on the “little things” (because “little things” grow and breed distrust)
- if it is not life threatening, then the parent has the final say. The more you give, the more you will get. This avoids a contest of wills. G**uilt trips are forbidden.
I can give examples where this has worked for my dh and I with my in-laws. We’ve been married 14 years, and if it wasn’t for these rules my dh would have no relationship at all with his parents today.
 
Rob_s_Wife said:
Nope. For several reasons.
**1. Children shouldn’t be put first. Yes. That’s what I wrote. Children should NOT be put first. The world does not, should not, and never will, revolve around them. We do what is best for our nuclear family as a whole. **

2. Children do not know what is best for their family or even themselves and do not get a say in these things. It’s that simple. I’ll even go so far as to say I think it nearly abusive to give children such misplaced burdens. These decisions should be carried on the shoulders of adults, not children. And, like it or not, this is too much power for a kid to play between the adults. Any kid is going to sense that within about 5 seconds. In the end, the relationship of all 3 parties would likely be ruined.

3. As another said, with rights come responsiblities. Children are not responsible for forming a relationship with adults, including grandparents. I don’t think it appropriate to give them that responsibility. Should it end at grandparents? What about aunts, uncles, cousins, neighbors, friends? Who else should a kid have the right to go over their parents to have a relationship with?
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AMEN!!!
 
jimmyd said:
What would you say to grandchildren having the legal right of contact with their grandparents rather than the other way round. Would you allow that. Provided their is no violence. would you put the children first and put your feelings to the side even although it dosn’t suit your plans?
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Nope. Kids don’t always know what it best for them. They eat too much sugar, run out into the road, and talk to strangers. That’s why it is OUR job as parents to set limits and boundaries to keep them safe. Sometimes that means safe from other people, even people we are related to.
 
jimmyd said:
Dear Princess Abby,

That is a very sad story, just when you could be doing with all the help you can get.

Could you tell me what you consider is a good healthy relationship with grandparents.

It would be interesting to hear a few points of view on this subject if anybody else is reading this.
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I consider a good healthy relationship to be one in which boundaries are respected. This goes for any relationship, and not just between grandparent and grandchild. I find that my parents and in-laws are incapable of respecting boundaries, and as such a healthy relationship is an impossibility at this time.

I should also say that I believe empathy is very important in any relationship, and sadly my parents and in-laws are unable to understand (or respect) any other perspective except their own. Children need empathy.
 
Princess_Abby said:
I consider a good healthy relationship to be one in which boundaries are respected. This goes for any relationship, and not just between grandparent and grandchild. I find that my parents and in-laws are incapable of respecting boundaries, and as such a healthy relationship is an impossibility at this time.

I should also say that I believe empathy is very important in any relationship, and sadly my parents and in-laws are unable to understand (or respect) any other perspective except their own. Children need empathy.
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I agree. Are there many great grandparents and good grandparents? Yes. Are there many bad ones? Yes.

My dad is an okay dad and a wonderful grandfather to my dd when he’s around. HOwever, when it comes to him wanting something pertaining to my dd I usually say no. Why would I do such a thing if he is wonderful to my dd when he’s around, because I can only trust him if I am present and able to remove my dd if he starts to overstep his boundaries.

I have posted twice on these forums how belittling my dad can be and how he’s thrown adult “tantrums” when I have told him “no” twice about visiting him and/or having my 2 y.o. dd visit him by herself. He is a brilliant man, but his social and emotional skills are way less than that.

He doesn’t believe my dd has allergies or asthma (I even had to leave his house 1 day early from when I visited him last, and paid the hefty plane fee for changing my scheduled flight and he still didn’t get that I would never pay $100 if my dd’s condition wasn’t as serious as it was), tried to feed her an uncooked carrot when she was 8 months old, has belittled my parenting over and over again, complained when I took my dd home to go to bed for the night (it was an hour past her bedtime already and she was a serious crank at the time, she was just too tired).

I have not asked him for a dime in helping me out with any of her or my expenses (I don’t make a lot). He had paid for 1/2 of the nursery furniture, the baby shower, and paid in full her baptismal party, paid the bar tab from her first birthday party (offered to pay for everything), two of the plane tickets when I went out to visit him (I paid for the last time). I never asked for him to do these things, he did them willingly and I thanked him many times for such generous gifts. However, these gifts do not entitle him to see my dd whenever he wants wherever he wants.

When he’s in town, I cancel ALL plans just so that he can spend time with her (something my older brother doesn’t do so that my dad can see my brother’s son) and I have flown out to visit my father more times than my brother and his son have and have stayed longer each time I’ve visited. Yet, I’m the jerky daughter who doesn’t let her father see his granddaughter. :confused: I’m not looking for the “greatest daughter in the world” prize, but just for my dad to stop guilting me about not going out there with my dd every time he wants me to go (and also to stop the stupid silent treatments when I say no about going out there).
 
jimmyd said:
With rights come responsibilities. That is something I have been trying to work out. A wife left her husband for another man. While she was with her husband he had rights and responsibilities. Now she has left committing a mortal sin and the husband and children are the innocent party, done no wrong, but he still has his responsibilities but his rights have gone. He took it to court cost around £8,000. He obtained a contact order but his wife refused to comply and at the end of the day nothing came of it. No court will convict a mother on contempt of court, punishment, a fine or prison. He still does not have his rights. …Grandparents can sue for legal contact if they have a genuine interest in the children and it will be granted if it is the best interests of the children. But it must be enforced.
…at the end of the day what we want is the best for our kids. If it’s not in their interest or they are not fit then grandparents are out and we would abide by that but not by a whim or just because the mother fancies a new boyfriend or the grandparents are not giving her enough money for the kids.
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Jimmyd-

I’m glad your own situation has worked out to everyone’s benefit. But your situation of a daughter who died and whose husband remarried applies to very few people. I would be heartbroken if I was in your situation, but I still think your plan to give all grandparents broad rights to accessing their grandchildren is a terrible idea.

You acknowledge that the courts where you live don’t enforce a father’s visitation rights, so I fail to understand why your organization thinks the courts would enforce grandparent visitation. The courts are over-burden with dysfunction nuclear families, so we certainly shouldn’t add dysfunctional extended families to their duties.

As you’ve read here, many responding to your thread have some serious reasons for keeping their children away from their parents. The only person I knew who *totally *cut off contract between with her father and child had been seriously abused by him when she was a child. So, please don’t always assume that every grandparent you meet with a sob story about how they don’t see their grandchild is telling you the whole story. People with bad childhood memories of parental abuse shouldn’t have to drag out those details in court in order to keep their former abuser away from their children. People who grew up in abusive homes should be allowed to move on in their life and hopefully, with the grace of God, they won’t repeat those same sins.

You wrote about grandparents who feared their grandchildren are being abused–well, abuse commonly passes from one generation to the next. Some of the grandparents you encounter probably had a chance to stop the cycle of abuse when they were parents. Don’t give former child abusers a chance to bully their adult children with threats of legal action for grandchild visitation.
 
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