Grappling with Justification and James 2 (1 of 2)

[JonNC]

Could someone from a catholic understanding interpret
What ‘‘justified’’ means in thus verse:

‘’ therefore having been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through HIM’’ (ROM 5:9)

From the Catholic Catechism:

. JUSTIFICATION

1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism:34

But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35 1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ’s Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36

[God] gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature. . . . For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37

1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus’ proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."38 Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.39

1990 Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God’s merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.

1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or “justice”) here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.

1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:40

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.41

1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom. On man’s part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

When God touches man’s heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God’s grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God’s sight.42

1994 Justification is the most excellent work of God’s love made manifest in Christ Jesus and granted by the Holy Spirit. It is the opinion of St. Augustine that “the justification of the wicked is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth,” because "heaven and earth will pass away but the salvation and justification of the elect . . . will not pass away."43 He holds also that the justification of sinners surpasses the creation of the angels in justice, in that it bears witness to a greater mercy.

1995 The Holy Spirit is the master of the interior life. By giving birth to the "inner man,"44 justification entails the sanctification of his whole being:

Just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification. . . . But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.45

Jon

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

I understand but that catechism says that to be justified means that God takes a man by his grace and changes him internally from bahaving badly to behaving righteously and thereby God can legitamately justify him.

But the scripture says we are ‘‘justified’’ by his blood??? It seems as though the remission of sin is what Paul is talking about

 

[JonNC]

I understand but that catechism says that to be justified means that God takes a man by his grace and changes him internally from bahaving badly to behaving righteously and thereby God can legitamately justify him.

But the scripture says we are ‘‘justified’’ by his blood??? It seems as though the remission of sin is what Paul is talking about

That’s not the way the Catechism appears to me.

*The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism:34 *

“…to cleanse us from our sins…”

and

Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.39

They don’t seem to be denying that justification is the remission of sins, but instead confirming it.

But then, I’m not Catholic so I should probably let Catholics comment on it.
I was just trying to provide an authoritative statement, as you asked for.

Jon

 

[stewstew03]

I understand but that catechism says that to be justified means that God takes a man by his grace and changes him internally from bahaving badly to behaving righteously and thereby God can legitamately justify him.

But the scripture says we are ‘‘justified’’ by his blood??? It seems as though the remission of sin is what Paul is talking about

Erick, this article should help.

:bible1:

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

Thank you for the link.

How should we define the word “justified” in the following statements of St. Paul

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law will be justified:

14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;

15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them);

16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ. (Romans 2:12-16)

What does the specific word “justified” mean in this context?

 

[JRKH]

Thank you for the link.

How should we define the word “justified” in the following statements of St. Paul

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law will be justified:

14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;

15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them);

16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ. (Romans 2:12-16)

What does the specific word “justified” mean in this context?

The Greek here…Dikaioo…is defined by Strong as:

1. 
   *]to render righteous or such he ought to be
   *]to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
   *]to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
   
   So if we do a word substitution, we have…
   13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law will be rendered righteous
   So - in this text the specific meaning of the word Justified" is rendered, or found to be, or pronounced righteous.
   
   Doesn’t this sound very much like what Jesus says over and over in the Gospels.
   “Not all who cry Lord Lord…But those who DO the will of the Father…”
   “When you did it to the least of…you did it to me”
   “A new command I give, that you Love one another…By this the world will know you are my disciples.”
   
   Peace
   James

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

Therefore, the word “justified” means to pronounce righteous or just, right ?

It means to pass the judgement and to be found worthy of entering into the Kingdom of God.

Now, why should we define it differently when it is said in romans 3:28

“Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith, apart from the deeds of the Law” (Rom 3:28).

“…being justified freely by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Rom 3:24)

Wouldn’t this mean that St. Paul is teaching that we are pronounced righteous by His grace through faith?

 

[JRKH]

Therefore, the word “justified” means to pronounce righteous or just, right ?

It means to pass the judgement and to be found worthy of entering into the Kingdom of God.

Now, why should we define it differently when it is said in romans 3:28

“Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith, apart from the deeds of the Law” (Rom 3:28).

“…being justified freely by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Rom 3:24)

Wouldn’t this mean that St. Paul is teaching that we are pronounced righteous by His grace through faith?

Yes - but note that in the previous quote…“Will be justified”…When??..At Judgement…
And by faith - certainly because faith is what is written in the heart…

Peace
James

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

Well the catechism teaches that justification is not a forensic declaration, as St. Paul says it is in Rom 2:12, rather it teaches that justification is man changing his behavior by the power and grace of God to become holy and righteous.

That is simply not the meaning of the word. When St. Paul says we are justified at the final judgement, it does not mean that AT THE POINT God changes us to live holy and righteous, rather it is a VERDICT>

 

[stewstew03]

Well the catechism teaches that justification is not a forensic declaration, as St. Paul says it is in Rom 2:12, rather it teaches that justification is man changing his behavior by the power and grace of God to become holy and righteous.

That is simply not the meaning of the word. When St. Paul says we are justified at the final judgement, it does not mean that AT THE POINT God changes us to live holy and righteous, rather it is a VERDICT>

So then you believe in OSAS?

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

No not at all.

I believe justification is a state of grace where one is part of the community that is on their way to salvation.

You can lose this state, as Paul says, if you fail to perservere to the end. (Col 1).

But in my present understanding, justification remains to be the state of innocence that God keeps on us as we pick up our cross daily all the way to our death

 

[stewstew03]

No not at all.

I believe justification is a state of grace where one is part of the community that is on their way to salvation.

You can lose this state, as Paul says, if you fail to perservere to the end. (Col 1).

But in my present understanding, justification remains to be the state of innocence that God keeps on us as we pick up our cross daily all the way to our death

But if the verdict has already been handed down, then why worry about persevering to the end? Are you saying Paul’s use of “justified” (as you understand it) is empty?

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

No I don’t think it is empty, rather it establishes a relationship between God and human beings that is opposite of being guilty under God’s law and estranged from the family.

One can leave like the prodigal son.

 

[stewstew03]

No I don’t think it is empty, rather it establishes a relationship between God and human beings that is opposite of being guilty under God’s law and estranged from the family.

One can leave like the prodigal son.

Sure - but if it’s a verdict, even the person turning his back on God would never be guilty in His court because, according to you, even backsliders are covered under the cloak of Christ’s righteousness.

 

[Erick_Ybarra]

I dont believe in Christ’s righteousness always cloaking us.

And I understand your point…I will have get into a study again

 

[Bookcat]

From Pope Benedict XVI:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081126_en.html (scroll down)

Plus the other earlier one:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html

Those who read this thread etc – be sure to read the above from Pope Benedict XVI

 

[stewstew03]

I dont believe in Christ’s righteousness always cloaking us…

Good.
Then you reject the Protestant paradigm of Justification.

 

[JRKH]

Erick - have you dug into the Greek words used and how they are translated?

Peace
James