Gravitating towards the SSPX

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I beg to differ.
The Society put themselves in this situation with their disobedience.
You cannot go against the hierarchy and still claim to be orthodox in your beliefs, especially when the primacy of the Pope is what your leaders disobeyed.
 
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Your words fall on deaf ears. You’re wasting your time on this forum. I really hate these TLM threads. You always have the, “But the OF is oerfectly fine why are you being prideful?” types that flock to them. . . .
 
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MasterXploder7 said:
My primary distaste for things like the SSPX and the LM (Latin Mass) is that its an old tradition that was not the primary tradition, things like the Vulgate were written because it was the “common language” at the time and gave the church a universal way of reading the scriptures - but it wasn’t the original way. This call to “traditionalism” doesn’t feel traditional to me, it feels like a white-washed sham of a reason to retreat to the medieval era again.
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You are out of line and are disrespectful toward the EF that was never abrogated in the Church, and is approved to be said any time or anywhere on the planet. I have no association with SSPX nor do I support them. All Catholics, in obedient to and in communion with the Holy Church, should, in good conscience, support all the Masses approved by the Church. Your post is so disgusting and vile toward the EF—a beloved Mass that has been with the Church for over 1,000 years and a Mass that most declared saints in the Church experienced and loved—that deserves no further words.

If you don’t like the EF, fine then attend the OF and leave the EF and those who prefer it alone. When I go to the EF or the OF, I worship God. Your un-charitable and distasteful words have no place in the Church. You should be reminded that Christ and the Holy Catholic Church preceded medieval time.
 
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MasterXploder7 said:
My primary distaste for things like the SSPX and the LM (Latin Mass) is that its an old tradition that was not the primary tradition, things like the Vulgate were written because it was the “common language” at the time and gave the church a universal way of reading the scriptures - but it wasn’t the original way. This call to “traditionalism” doesn’t feel traditional to me, it feels like a white-washed sham of a reason to retreat to the medieval era again.h
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St Pope John XXIII (opened Vatican II): “For the Church, precisely because it embraces all nations and is destined to endure to the end of time … of its very nature requires a language which is universal, immutable, and non-vernacular”
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Aside from Liturgy, which is often discussed, what are the positive features of SSPX? Why are they able to attract a steady flow of young men to priesthood, and a fair number of young families as lay supporters, at a time when most of the Church can’t?

I’m trying to get defenders and critics alike to avoid repeating their same plus or minus arguments. I think there are some besides the liturgical factors here, I’m interested in your ideas.
 
TheBomb.Com said:
Not only do they have a good liturgy, but good priests that preach strongly solely from Catholic teaching and holy and orthodox clergy that will uphold Catholic dogma and doctrine! They are a godsend when one looks at the state of the modern Catholic Church!
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Reverence, respect and genuine love for the Mass, where God is worshiped, are admirable and worthy attributes that should be emulated throughout the Church. Proper catholic education at all levels is fruitful for the souls. This is not nostalgia. It is the way we should worship God who is so worthy of our love and devotion.
 
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commenter said:
Aside from Liturgy, which is often discussed, what are the positive features of SSPX? Why are they able to attract a steady flow of young men to priesthood, and a fair number of young families as lay supporters, at a time when most of the Church can’t?

I’m trying to get defenders and critics alike to avoid repeating their same plus or minus arguments. I think there are some besides the liturgical factors here, I’m interested in your ideas.
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Whatever their faults (I’ve addressed some fundamental ones in other threads), they pretty consistently express the traditional faith–in word, liturgy, and deed–when the rest of the Church seems to mostly not. If the rest of the Church did, the SSPX would not exist, never mind attract anyone.

The fruits you describe are found wherever this tradition is found, proportionately less where it lacks to a greater or lesser extent. The more a diocese, parish, order, or other congregation looks and acts like the Church before the “aggiornamento” craze, the more fruit they produce and vice versa.

It’s a shame most of our leaders refuse to read the signs of the times and rigidly keep seeking new and newer paths, without giving the old ones a shot.
Jer. 6:16 Thus says the Lord:
“Stand by the roads, and look,
and ask for the ancient paths,
where the good way is; and walk in it,
and find rest for your souls.
But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’
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Genesis315 said:
The fruits you describe are found wherever this tradition is found, proportionately less where it lacks to a greater or lesser extent. The more a diocese, parish, order, or other congregation looks and acts like the Church before the “aggiornamento” craze, the more fruit they produce and vice versa.

It’s a shame most of our leaders refuse to read the signs of the times and rigidly keep seeking new and newer paths, without giving the old ones a shot.
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As I mentioned in my previous posts, although I have no affiliation with SSPX nor have I ever gone to any of their chapel/church, I have personal and good friends who are affiliated with SSPX. Whenever I go to an EF Mass with them, I could not help but notice their proper preparation—both mental and physical—for the Mass. Their reverence and genuine respect during the Mass show humility and love for the God. The examples that they set are quite impressive and desiring for people around them. Their knowledge of the Mass and of the Church are extensive.

We have our differences and talks of reconciliation have been underway. I hope and pray that one day SSPX will be in full communion with the Church.
 
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Genesis315 said:
The more a diocese, parish, order, or other congregation looks and acts like the Church before the “aggiornamento” craze, the more fruit they produce and vice versa.
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Ok.
In my diocese the SSPX chapel began in the 1970s, at a time when the TLM was non existent, liturgical abuses rampant, many powerful clergy, sisters, and Laity were undermining, or at least ignoring orthodox doctrine.
In 1976, everyone who affiliated with SSPX made a conscious choice, after looking at the 1976 local situation.

Today that powerful liberal generation is gone and mostly not replaced. There is a very active Diocesan EF community. The diocese is smaller, liturgical abuses are uncommon, false teaching is less common, the few, younger clergy are overwhelmingly orthodox.

The SSPX chapel still exists. In 2019, is this now based partially on momentum - maybe Laity and clergy who grew up in the SSPX? Is there a tendency for organizations to keep going?
 
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TheBomb.Com said:
Not only do they have a good liturgy, but good priests that preach strongly solely from Catholic teaching and holy and orthodox clergy that will uphold Catholic dogma and doctrine! They are a godsend when one looks at the state of the modern Catholic Church!
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I’m sorry?? Good priests? I went to an SSPX school and one of the priests there scarred me for life. I never got over how much I hated him. I went through at least 12 therapists because of his actions. I remember at least 6 priests and none of them were good priests.

Catholic teaching? No. I have had to be re-catechised since leaving. I was taught some things that are completely contrary to Catholic teaching. I was taught that Pope St John Paul II worshiped Satan and the gates of Hell had prevailed against the Church.
 
commenter said:
The SSPX chapel still exists. In 2019, is this now based partially on momentum - maybe Laity and clergy who grew up in the SSPX? Is there a tendency for organizations to keep going?
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I think that’s about right–people take a “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it attitude.” For better or worse, the SSPX has often been more stable than these approved communities. The way they see it, all it would take would be a Pope Francis style bishop to threaten their community’s stability.

I think they are like the following boats from St. John Bosco’s famous dream about the two pillars–it’s going to take a greater calm and clearer victory for them to draw close again:
“Many other ships which had retreated for fear of battle remained at a great distance, watching prudently, until the wreckage of all the shattered ships were swallowed up in the gorges of the sea. Then they moved very slowly in the direction of the two pillars. As soon as they arrived there, they attached themselves to the hanging hooks and remained there happy and safe, together with the flag ship on which the Pope was. A great calm reigned in the sea, a supreme calm it was.”
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things like the Vulgate were written because it was the “common language” at the time and gave the church a universal way of reading the scriptures - but it wasn’t the original way.
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There were other versions in Latin. The Vulgate was assembled to be the most common version in Latin.
 
Gab123 said:
The problem is attending mass was if it was some kind of beautiful opera, but after it’s done one leaves the as the same rotten, unforgiving, self-righteous disobedient person, albeit more religious. I love the TLM, yet the ordinary mass is just as real. One only need listen to SSPX conversations and it is entrenched in religiosity and calumny of the ordinary mass.

Remember, the devil ALWAYS appears as an angel of light and truth.
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Augustinus - I was once in your shoes for the same reasons you are. I chose the SSPX and it changed my life and, I’m convinced, will also be the spiritual salvation of my wife and children. Follow Gab’s advice in that if you should not attend any Mass because it has the makings of a beautiful opera. If you are left rotten, unforgiving, and self-righteous, you are in need of apriestly spiritual advisor. If you are part of a conversation with anyone that calumniates a Mass that is offered as the Sacrifice of Calvary, you should stick up for it. If you attend a Mass that does not treat the Blessed Sacrament with the dignity of the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ - run away from it as fast as you can. The SSPX has faculties to hear Confession, to Witness Marriages, and to licitly offer Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome. No need to avoid them.
 
Why not start a petition to see if there is support for an Extra-Ordinary form Mass. Many Newman centers offer it as an option.
 
Gab123 said:
The problem is attending mass was if it was some kind of beautiful opera, but after it’s done one leaves the as the same rotten, unforgiving, self-righteous disobedient person,
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In all charity, one can leave like that no matter attending EF or OF.
Gab123 said:
Remember, the devil ALWAYS appears as an angel of light and truth.
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We are talking about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
The devil is not in it.
 
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