Great info on Dominicans (from me, a Dominican)

[Faustina_Pio]

Hello all. I would be happy to answer some questions regarding the Dominicans as I belong to them. The names all mean the same thing and switch around but are interchangeable…Third Order Dominicans, Lay Dominican, tertiary, member of the Lay Fraternities of St Dominic.

The country is broken into regions ( but the order is worldwide), and then the regions into chapters. Your state determines your region. Then the chapter would be the location closest to your home. Some people are lucky enough to be a few minutes away from their meeting location but some can be an hour or more. This is any third order. Anyhow, Dominicans have meetings only once a month which is good because the time commitment isn’t to taxing. Go to www.3op.org and you should find a location near to you there.

Most importantly, figuring what’s best for you. There are many orders, all wonderful, not one better then the other.People choose an order not based on a favorite saint, or what you believe is the “superior” order, but what the point of the order is. It is not a club or a group but a vocation…a job, a vow.Dominicans were started from St Dominic 800 years ago because he felt the world needed preaching and teaching of our faith outside the church. Just learning in the church wasn’t enough, the priest didnt have enough time. It is people who live a secular life… married, fathers, mothers, working who live on the outside and can evangelize to other people. If you love learning about church history, the laws, all about Christ, the catechism, converting people, convincing people to come back to the Catholic faith who left and defending it, being informed in a way that if people attack the church or Christ you will have the knowledge to set them straight immediately. If this sounds like you, this is your place. Our motto is latin , it is VERITAS. That means truth. Plain and simple, you represent truth, knowledge, light, the correct path to Christ and His church.

3 -6 months of going to meetings and inquiring
6 months of postulancy
At that 1 year mark received into the order as a novice, official member
In another year make a promise to live the Rule and continue education, lasts 3 years
After 3 years, you should be at the 5 year mark, you make your final profession or final vows, lifelong, cant get out of the order unless emergency or something.Like I said, not a club or group, a vow and promise to God, Jesus, St Dominic our founding father and St Catherine of Siena our patroness

When recieved as a novice you take a religious name such as Sister…
or Brother…People usually pick two special saints as a first and middle name. I am Sister Faustina Pio( this is my religious name)
legally can use the initials O.P after your name meaning Order of Preachers.
Have the right to choose to be buried in a Dominican habit, like a nun or men like priests

Requirements
Study what ever you can get your hands on about our faith in order to preach, teach and defend it
Pray always, personal but also the liturgy of the hours( Divine Office, Breviary) must be prayed every morning and evening
Daily rosary, after all Mary revealed the rosary to St Dominic
be involved with other Dominicans through meetings and retreats, because they are literally your family pray for dominicans worldwide as well as deceased Dominicans, they are all praying for you
Work in ways to help the down trodden, clothes for the poor, soup kitchens, prison ministry, comfort the sick, etc…

Famous Dominicans

St Dominic
St Catherine of Siena
St Martin de Porres
Pope Pius V ( made the catechism of the council of trent, also the reason why priests wear white. Dominican habit is white so he wore his and it stuck through history.)
St Thomas Aquinas
Blessed Pierre Frassati
Blessed Margaret Castello
So many Im out of room…

I hope this helps you. I’ll answer any other questions

---

 

[F_J_Woods]

Well, almost exactly one year later but I’ll give it a try:

Sister Faustina:

Thank you for this post! I am beginning to look into the Lay Dominicans here in Singapore (they’ve just opened ‘a branch’, so to speak). I absolutely adore the history and charism one can read about easily enough on the web.

HOWEVER (here it comes) I, apparently like many other post-Baby Boomers, am rather worked up about that old-fashioned notion of Orthodoxy; what I mean by that is an unbending commitment to the Magisterium of the Church and an understanding that it’s about JESUS CHRIST first and foremost. “Social Justice” is, therefore, a result of the above, not/not a medium through which to reach the above.

I’ve heard rather contradictory things about modern Dominicans…some insist it is a stalwart of Orthodoxy (as I’ve just rather hurriedly defined it), while some claim they’ve gone the way of the Jesuits, in a perennial pursuit to ‘push the envelope’ of Orthodoxy, and by placing a commitment to the sometimes nebulous concept of “Social Justice” as their primary goal vice an in-the-trenches evangelization as was once the case.

I’d be enormously appreciative if you were to comment on my comment.

THANK YOU!

 

[eichenb2]

I, also, have an interest in the 3rd order of the Dominicans. Like the previous post, though, I am wary that the order has gone away from St. Dominic’s intention. Although, I have been very impressed by what I have seen on the Dominican house priory in Washington DC.

 

[F_J_Woods]

I found that the UK Chapter (religious side, as I recall) recently sponsored an “interpretive dance” to explain the Liturgical Year (God how I wish I was making this up…here’s the link for anyone who’d like to keep me honest…perhaps I’m overreacting…english.op.org/News_&_Events_files/newsletter4.pdf) while the Lay side’s current opus (according to their own publication op-glasgow.demon.co.uk/laity/wpreach.htm) is working on getting Lay speakers to preach at Mass. Doesn’t bode well for a fed-up traditionalist like myself. Wonder what St. Catherine would say…

BTW, here the snippet on the interpretive dance. Perhaps I’m just overreacting to an otherwise faithful attempt at preaching the gospel:

A new work of sacred dance went public on 18 July to a full
house at Notre Dame de France church in the heart of
London’s West End. Cosmos is a project begun by Fr
Dominic White to reach out through the medium of music
and dance to those who are not typically churchgoers but
who are nevertheless attracted by spirituality. “Dance is now
the second most popular entertainment in Britain,” says Fr
Dominic. “Cosmos draws on the cosmological tradition in
Christianity, that Christ came to unite all things in himself
and set creation free.” Inspired in particular by Dominican
chant, Cosmos is a cycle of dances for the liturgical year, and
each rehearsal began with meditation before the Blessed
Sacrament—Comsos was conceived by Fr Dominic not as a
performance but as something more spiritual and a means
of preaching in itself. “Preaching without words opens the
ears of people to the Word,” reports Fr Dominic. “You
could see this in how the experience generated questions
from the audience.” Cosmos brought together a whole range
of artists from diverse backgrounds, including a Sufi
whirling dervish. Br Lawrence Lew OP was among the
singers, and the music and dance were joined by a spe-
cially commissioned icon by Lay Dominican, Zlata
Vrabec. Cosmos continues in January —for more informa-
tion, contact Fr Dominic at St Dominic’s, London.
Satya Dunning recalls the Assumption in the Sea Dance

 

[eichenb2]

I found that the UK Chapter (religious side, as I recall) recently sponsored an “interpretive dance” to explain the Liturgical Year (God how I wish I was making this up…here’s the link for anyone who’d like to keep me honest…perhaps I’m overreacting…english.op.org/News_&_Events_files/newsletter4.pdf) while the Lay side’s current opus (according to their own publication op-glasgow.demon.co.uk/laity/wpreach.htm) is working on getting Lay speakers to preach at Mass. Doesn’t bode well for a fed-up traditionalist like myself. Wonder what St. Catherine would say…

BTW, here the snippet on the interpretive dance. Perhaps I’m just overreacting to an otherwise faithful attempt at preaching the gospel:

A new work of sacred dance went public on 18 July to a full
house at Notre Dame de France church in the heart of
London’s West End. Cosmos is a project begun by Fr
Dominic White to reach out through the medium of music
and dance to those who are not typically churchgoers but
who are nevertheless attracted by spirituality. “Dance is now
the second most popular entertainment in Britain,” says Fr
Dominic. “Cosmos draws on the cosmological tradition in
Christianity, that Christ came to unite all things in himself
and set creation free.” Inspired in particular by Dominican
chant, Cosmos is a cycle of dances for the liturgical year, and
each rehearsal began with meditation before the Blessed
Sacrament—Comsos was conceived by Fr Dominic not as a
performance but as something more spiritual and a means
of preaching in itself. “Preaching without words opens the
ears of people to the Word,” reports Fr Dominic. “You
could see this in how the experience generated questions
from the audience.” Cosmos brought together a whole range
of artists from diverse backgrounds, including a Sufi
whirling dervish. Br Lawrence Lew OP was among the
singers, and the music and dance were joined by a spe-
cially commissioned icon by Lay Dominican, Zlata
Vrabec. Cosmos continues in January —for more informa-
tion, contact Fr Dominic at St Dominic’s, London.
Satya Dunning recalls the Assumption in the Sea Dance

Oh how I, also, wish you were making this up . I am not even Catholic and it is discouraging to me to see Catholics follow Methodists and the like in seeking to be culturally relevant. Perhaps I too am over reacting. Did not King David dance in the site of the Arc of the Covenant? . That being said though, I do feel there is a danger of compromising the message if the media is too drastically altered. As a social and cultural conservative, I believe that I would already be a Catholic and Dominican, if it was pre Vatican II.

 

[Shin]

Whenever I think about various religious orders and the possibilities of a vocation for one of them or the other what I most want to hear is what a normal day in the life of that person in the order is like.

In other words, a simple story of a single day, with whatever goes on in it, so I could have an idea of… What might I be doing there? Does this sound like what I would want to do for my life?

I love the Jersey shore, it’s a great place to be. In general I prefer it to upstate NY at this time of year, even with the cold wind off the ocean! It’s simpler to put on a thick coat compared to digging snow tunnels.

St. Dominic ora pro nobis! Our Lady of the Rosary, pray for us! +

 

[brigid12]

Well, almost exactly one year later but I’ll give it a try:

Sister Faustina:

Thank you for this post! I am beginning to look into the Lay Dominicans here in Singapore (they’ve just opened ‘a branch’, so to speak). I absolutely adore the history and charism one can read about easily enough on the web.

HOWEVER (here it comes) I, apparently like many other post-Baby Boomers, am rather worked up about that old-fashioned notion of Orthodoxy; what I mean by that is an unbending commitment to the Magisterium of the Church and an understanding that it’s about JESUS CHRIST first and foremost. “Social Justice” is, therefore, a result of the above, not/not a medium through which to reach the above.

I’ve heard rather contradictory things about modern Dominicans…some insist it is a stalwart of Orthodoxy (as I’ve just rather hurriedly defined it), while some claim they’ve gone the way of the Jesuits, in a perennial pursuit to ‘push the envelope’ of Orthodoxy, and by placing a commitment to the sometimes nebulous concept of “Social Justice” as their primary goal vice an in-the-trenches evangelization as was once the case.

I’d be enormously appreciative if you were to comment on my comment.

THANK YOU!

Same problem with the western province of third-order Dominicans (and an actual Baby-Boomer, too). I would imagine it would be pretty hard to get a Dominican nuns habit around here for me to be buried in. “Social Justice” makes a much bigger splash on websites than does the Gospel.

 

[Paenitens]

Perhaps it’s simply the natural order of things…Dominicans, Franciscans, Jesuits…perhaps time for the tree to die and let the saplings get some sun…still pains me immensely, though.

 

[eichenb2]

Perhaps it’s simply the natural order of things…Dominicans, Franciscans, Jesuits…perhaps time for the tree to die and let the saplings get some sun…still pains me immensely, though.

You may be right. Hopefully, though, the spirit of the Dominicans will live on. Catholics are desperately in need of an uncompromising voice for orthodoxy in the modern world of relativism and materialism. Pray God to send us another St. Thomas!

 

[eichenb2]

Same problem with the western province of third-order Dominicans (and an actual Baby-Boomer, too). I would imagine it would be pretty hard to get a Dominican nuns habit around here for me to be buried in. “Social Justice” makes a much bigger splash on websites than does the Gospel.

I have no problem with social justice. My problem with the apparent laxity as regards full adherence to Magisterium.

 

[brigid12]

I have no problem with social justice. My problem with the apparent laxity as regards full adherence to Magisterium.

Social justice is fine, however it should not take precedence over the Gospel or obedience to the Magisterium!

 

[eichenb2]

Social justice is fine, however it should not take precedence over the Gospel or obedience to the Magisterium!

 

[Kook]

What if you don’t live anywhere near a community? How would you start your own without any Dominicans nearby?

 

[JReducation]

Perhaps it’s simply the natural order of things…Dominicans, Franciscans, Jesuits…perhaps time for the tree to die and let the saplings get some sun…still pains me immensely, though.

I’m shocked that anyone would believe that it is time to let these rich Catholic traditions to die.

Not only am I shocked about the statement, but I’m also concerned because all three are increasing in numbers. I don’t know the numbers for the Dominicans, but every day I see new Dominican congregations of religious women and new Secular Dominican fraternities spring up. They are making a difference where they are found.

As a Franciscan, I can tell you that we’re not dying by any means. We’ve hit our highest number in 50 years. We are up to one million in 114 countries around the world, this includes 600,000 Secular Franciscans, 14,000 cloistered Poor Clares, 100,000 Friars Minor, and about 250,000 Franciscan religious men and women in the Third Order.

The Jesuits are on the rise as well, especially in the developing nations and they have founded some wonderful indigenous religious communities of religious brothers such as the Missionary Brothers of the Poor in the Caribbean.

Maybe we need to read more about the contributions that these religious families are making to the Church and not just judge on what we see locally.

The Lay Dominican Order has made a significant contribution to the theology of the Church and to the Church’s pastoral care of the uncatechized for hundreds of years, especially in the 20th century.

I would never suggest that it is time to let these religious families die.

Besides that, there is the promise that Christ made to Francis of Assisi, that his religious family would be with the Church until the second coming. I’m not well versed in Dominican history, but we Franciscans consider Dominic a second father. His humility and desire to preach truth has always been an inspiration to us. To this day, there has always been a mutual love and respect between our two religious families.

In fact, if you observe the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration, you will notice that they wear the Dominican habit, only in brown. There is a reason for this. This particular branch of the Poor Clares was protected by the enclosed Dominican nuns in France during one of France’s anti-Catholic eras.

The interaction and complimentarity between these religious families: Dominicans, Carmelites, Jesuits, Franciscans and Benedictines makes them a force to be contended with in the world. It makes them a noble army that has always protected the Gospel and proclaimed the Gospel from their particular emphasis.

God bless the Dominican Order.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OFS

 

[Paenitens]

I’m shocked that anyone would believe that it is time to let these rich Catholic traditions to die.

Not only am I shocked about the statement, but I’m also concerned because all three are increasing in numbers. I don’t know the numbers for the Dominicans, but every day I see new Dominican congregations of religious women and new Secular Dominican fraternities spring up. They are making a difference where they are found.

As a Franciscan, I can tell you that we’re not dying by any means. We’ve hit our highest number in 50 years. We are up to one million in 114 countries around the world, this includes 600,000 Secular Franciscans, 14,000 cloistered Poor Clares, 100,000 Friars Minor, and about 250,000 Franciscan religious men and women in the Third Order.

The Jesuits are on the rise as well, especially in the developing nations and they have founded some wonderful indigenous religious communities of religious brothers such as the Missionary Brothers of the Poor in the Caribbean.

Maybe we need to read more about the contributions that these religious families are making to the Church and not just judge on what we see locally.

The Lay Dominican Order has made a significant contribution to the theology of the Church and to the Church’s pastoral care of the uncatechized for hundreds of years, especially in the 20th century.

I would never suggest that it is time to let these religious families die.

Besides that, there is the promise that Christ made to Francis of Assisi, that his religious family would be with the Church until the second coming. I’m not well versed in Dominican history, but we Franciscans consider Dominic a second father. His humility and desire to preach truth has always been an inspiration to us. To this day, there has always been a mutual love and respect between our two religious families.

In fact, if you observe the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration, you will notice that they wear the Dominican habit, only in brown. There is a reason for this. This particular branch of the Poor Clares was protected by the enclosed Dominican nuns in France during one of France’s anti-Catholic eras.

The interaction and complimentarity between these religious families: Dominicans, Carmelites, Jesuits, Franciscans and Benedictines makes them a force to be contended with in the world. It makes them a noble army that has always protected the Gospel and proclaimed the Gospel from their particular emphasis.

God bless the Dominican Order.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OFS

I don’t know how to do that cool ‘reply bit by bit’ thing so I’ll have to wrap up multiple responses into one here:

I could not possibly hope more that what you’ve said is true! I truly do want a vigorous Church bustling with activity from its members both Lay and Consecrated, in all possible Orders and groups, prelatures, etc.

You mentioned that perhaps we need to read more about the good work Dominicans, Franciscans,Jesuits, etc. are doing today. Again, I couldn’t agree with you more. However, I do do a great deal of reading, and alas I tend to come across the words “Jesuit”, “Dominican”, “Franciscan” in situations that tend not to engender great positive amazement (more about my personal criteria below). Very often these groups are portrayed as anything but loyal apologists/defenders of the Catholic faith;among the more flattering portrayals are those that involve high-level academia (Jesuits) or social-justice concerns (Franciscans, Dominicans). I am not suggesting by fiat that this accurately reflects these groups today; I am suggesting that this is the message I get when reading the various newspapers, blogs, etc that I frequent.

As an avid reader, I recall that St. Francis himself, during the bloody Fifth Crusade, engaged Sultan al-Kamil and actually attempted to convert him to Christianity; Ignatius and his successors waged spiritual warfare against heresy during that most violent of Christian civil confrontation, the Counter-reformation; Dominic and his folks engaged the Albigensians and, of course, were the backbone of orthodoxy for centuries.

At risk of melodrama, I think it is fair to say that today we are facing challenges that rival all the above menaces and perhaps even exceed them: the complete explosion of Western society and fragmentation into countless “isms”, most of which are completely inimical to Christiany; a resurgent and highly aggressive Islam that, by direct violence or simple passive replacement, threatens Christianity throughout the West; and the continuing growth of ‘alternative’ Christianities, such as Mormonism, Jehovahs Witnesses, SDA, etc, usually at the expense of Catholic pews.

Social Justice and academia used to be by-products of a strong Catholicism, not replacements for it. Yet it would appear that this is the preferred milieu of those three currently. Where is Francis today? Where is Ignatius? Dominic? I personally feel we are currently in desperate need of their original charisms.

And, I second your blessing: GOD BLESS THE FRANCISCANS, THE DOMINICANS, AND THE JESUITS. ST FRANCIS, ST. DOMINIC, AND ST. IGNATIUS, PRAY FOR US.

 

[eichenb2]

I could not agree more. I (a potential Catholic) very much admire the Dominicans and would love to see the order return to days when it guarded the limits of natural law and orthodoxy. Along with you, though, that may impression is that the Dominicans are (generally) no longer vehement defenders of natural law and orthodoxy. What I have hear and seen from the Dominican House of Studies in Washington, DC is encouraging, though.

 

[JReducation]

Sometimes we have to consider that the charism remains the same while the methodology and the means evolves. Those methods are not always fool proof. We realize that. When something does not work, we have to change it. But it is always fair to give something a try for a few years, before we say that it does not work. That happens with any human organization, not just religious families.

The Dominicans are still the Order of Preachers. They still preach the Gospel as St. Dominica commanded them to. There was a statement that Dominic made to his brothers. He told them that they would make more converts by observing poverty and humility than by their words. This is rarely known by most people, unless you’re a Dominican.

The Franciscans were never an order of apologists. We were not founded to be that. It is true that Francis went on a mission to the Muslims. But that was a very isolated case. His focus was always on the brotherhood. In his writings and in his rule as well as his actions, he wanted to leave the Church three orders where the mystery of brotherhood would be celebrated each day by the way that the brothers and sisters lived together and loved each other. Poverty was a means to strip the self in order to make room for Christ. But the mission was never to go out and be apologists or fight heresies. The mission of the Franciscan family was to live in brotherhood where Christ was very present to each other and where others by seeing them would be converted to Christ. Only some individuals were to become priests, only some were to be missionaries, only some were to be scholars, only some were to be out in the public. Most were to be at home in the friary in prayer and service to each other. The brotherhood has always attracted vocations by their spirit of fraternal joy and obedience. This brotherhood was to live and work among the poor and the disadvantaged members of society. The social dimension of the Gospel was transleted into the Redemptive dimension of the Gospel. The crucified Christ is found in every person who suffers. The Franciscan embraces him, because in doing so, he embraces Christ on the cross. That is the mystique and mission of the Franciscan family, not fighting heresies through words, but preaching through daily life of community with each other and with the poor.

The Jesuits were founded as a society of scholars. They were not founded as a religious order. The canonical status of order was imposed on them because the Church did not have Secular Institutes in the 1500s. That came later. There were only Secular Orders. The Jesuits were a Secular Order as are the Secular Franciscans, the Secular Dominicans and the Secular Carmelites. They are secular priests who travel the world preaching and teaching. There was never any intention in the mind of St. Ignatius that they preserve his spirit. This was more St. Francis and St. Benedict who bound their folllowers to obey them after death. Ignatius did not do this.

The Jesuits do not even have a rule of ife. They have statutes that Ignatius gave them, but which he said were binding until the next superior general changed them. They were not to be followed forever, as is the rule of St. Augustine which the Dominicans follow, the rule of St. Francis, the rule of St. Benedict or the rule of Carmel. Those are binding until the end of time.

The Jesuits have no such legal document. Their statutes change with the mind of the Superior General and the General Chapter of the Society. Ignatius wanted them to adapt their mission and life as needed. They were never to give up their secular way of life. That’s why they engage in scholarly work and in speculative studies. They are not promoting heresy. They are looking at different events and disciplines and trying to make sense of them. This is attractive to many young men and women who have founded religious communities based on the Jesuit model, to make sense of the world for the Greater Glory and Honor of God.

Going back to the OP about the Dominicans. The Dominicans have done a wonderful job at preaching the gospel through education, parishes, missions, writing, public communication and many other means of communication. Let’s not sell them short. Look at the Sisters of Life in NY. They are a Dominican community who fight for the right to life. Look at the Sisters of St. Cecilia, another Dominican community who extends itself into the field of education. Look at the Daughters of Mary, another Dominican group that focuses on catechesis. The Dominican Sisters of Fatima, preach the Gospel to families. These are just a few of the new Dominican communities that have come up through the Lay Dominican Order and are part of the Lay Dominican Order. These groups are not Dominican nuns, even though people mistakenly call them nuns because they dress like nuns. They are lay sisters.

I believe that the Dominican family has to be proud of their offspring. I as a Franciscan cousin congratulate and pray for them.

Fraternally,

Brother JR, OFS

 

[Paenitens]

Sometimes we have to consider that the charism remains the same while the methodology and the means evolves. Those methods are not always fool proof. We realize that. When something does not work, we have to change it. But it is always fair to give something a try for a few years, before we say that it does not work. That happens with any human organization, not just religious families.

The Dominicans are still the Order of Preachers. They still preach the Gospel as St. Dominica commanded them to. There was a statement that Dominic made to his brothers. He told them that they would make more converts by observing poverty and humility than by their words. This is rarely known by most people, unless you’re a Dominican.

The Franciscans were never an order of apologists. We were not founded to be that. It is true that Francis went on a mission to the Muslims. But that was a very isolated case. His focus was always on the brotherhood. In his writings and in his rule as well as his actions, he wanted to leave the Church three orders where the mystery of brotherhood would be celebrated each day by the way that the brothers and sisters lived together and loved each other. Poverty was a means to strip the self in order to make room for Christ. But the mission was never to go out and be apologists or fight heresies. The mission of the Franciscan family was to live in brotherhood where Christ was very present to each other and where others by seeing them would be converted to Christ. Only some individuals were to become priests, only some were to be missionaries, only some were to be scholars, only some were to be out in the public. Most were to be at home in the friary in prayer and service to each other. The brotherhood has always attracted vocations by their spirit of fraternal joy and obedience. This brotherhood was to live and work among the poor and the disadvantaged members of society. The social dimension of the Gospel was transleted into the Redemptive dimension of the Gospel. The crucified Christ is found in every person who suffers. The Franciscan embraces him, because in doing so, he embraces Christ on the cross. That is the mystique and mission of the Franciscan family, not fighting heresies through words, but preaching through daily life of community with each other and with the poor.

Good point…I concede that finding fault in modern day Franciscans for not being aggressive apologists is perhaps illogical, or at least possibly contrary to St. Francis’ intentions.

The Jesuits were founded as a society of scholars. They were not founded as a religious order. The canonical status of order was imposed on them because the Church did not have Secular Institutes in the 1500s. That came later. There were only Secular Orders. The Jesuits were a Secular Order as are the Secular Franciscans, the Secular Dominicans and the Secular Carmelites. They are secular priests who travel the world preaching and teaching. There was never any intention in the mind of St. Ignatius that they preserve his spirit. This was more St. Francis and St. Benedict who bound their folllowers to obey them after death. Ignatius did not do this.

But the point I was attempting to make was less that the Jesuits as an order had gone astray from original intent, but more that the fervor in defending orthodoxy certainly seems to have done so.

The Jesuits do not even have a rule of ife. They have statutes that Ignatius gave them, but which he said were binding until the next superior general changed them. They were not to be followed forever, as is the rule of St. Augustine which the Dominicans follow, the rule of St. Francis, the rule of St. Benedict or the rule of Carmel. Those are binding until the end of time.

The Jesuits have no such legal document. Their statutes change with the mind of the Superior General and the General Chapter of the Society. Ignatius wanted them to adapt their mission and life as needed. They were never to give up their secular way of life. That’s why they engage in scholarly work and in speculative studies. They are not promoting heresy. They are looking at different events and disciplines and trying to make sense of them. This is attractive to many young men and women who have founded religious communities based on the Jesuit model, to make sense of the world for the Greater Glory and Honor of God.

Going back to the OP about the Dominicans. The Dominicans have done a wonderful job at preaching the gospel through education, parishes, missions, writing, public communication and many other means of communication. Let’s not sell them short.

Best point yet. I think in my hurried original post it does come across as throwing them all out with the bathwater, which is unfair.

My personal bottom line is that (and granting my argument fell short on this aspect) whether or not a particular order/practice has strayed from their original charism or not, there certainly has been a great bleeding of orthodox fervor from these groups, indeed from the Church in general. Yet, looking at their storied histories, it is precisely these groups I would look at to generate that kind of renewal in the 21st century. Poverty aside, Francis worked towards RENEWING and REBUILDING (literally) the Church in his day, as did Ignatius and Dominic. I must confess these three groups are the last place I personally would expect to see that renewal originate in these troubled times.

In this, cherished interlocutor, I would not be the least bit dismayed to be proven wrong.

God bless you and your vocation!

 

[eichenb2]

Good point…I concede that finding fault in modern day Franciscans for not being aggressive apologists is perhaps illogical, or at least possibly contrary to St. Francis’ intentions.

But the point I was attempting to make was less that the Jesuits as an order had gone astray from original intent, but more that the fervor in defending orthodoxy certainly seems to have done so.

Best point yet. I think in my hurried original post it does come across as throwing them all out with the bathwater, which is unfair.

My personal bottom line is that (and granting my argument fell short on this aspect) whether or not a particular order/practice has strayed from their original charism or not, there certainly has been a great bleeding of orthodox fervor from these groups, indeed from the Church in general. Yet, looking at their storied histories, it is precisely these groups I would look at to generate that kind of renewal in the 21st century. Poverty aside, Francis worked towards RENEWING and REBUILDING (literally) the Church in his day, as did Ignatius and Dominic. I must confess these three groups are the last place I personally would expect to see that renewal originate in these troubled times.

In this, cherished interlocutor, I would not be the least bit dismayed to be proven wrong.

God bless you and your vocation!

I am not, yet, a Catholic, but view cafeteria Catholicism as repugnant. My experience (and frankly it is not that extensive) is that these aforementioned Orders are, indeed, the last page I would look for Orthodoxy. For example, the Catechism teaches, unequivolcally, that homosexual attraction is disordered and that homosexual activity is Grave Matter. Yet, many among these Orders seem to hold an opinion that this teaching will change and support the “gay rights” movement. It is no wonder to me that those who are ferverently Orthodox do not join these orders. It is, in my opinion, is very unforunate.

 

[JReducation]

I am not, yet, a Catholic, but view cafeteria Catholicism as repugnant. My experience (and frankly it is not that extensive) is that these aforementioned Orders are, indeed, the last page I would look for Orthodoxy. For example, the Catechism teaches, unequivolcally, that homosexual attraction is disordered and that homosexual activity is Grave Matter. Yet, many among these Orders seem to hold an opinion that this teaching will change and support the “gay rights” movement. It is no wonder to me that those who are ferverently Orthodox do not join these orders. It is, in my opinion, is very unforunate.

It is unfortunate that you find yourelf in this position regarding the Dominicans, Jesuits, Franciscans, Benedictines and Carmelites. They have been and continue to be the backbone of religioius life in the Church. Almost every congregation that has ever been found after them has been obliged by Church law to model their rules on these orders.

Not only have these orders grown, but others have rooted their own spirituality in them. I don’t think anyone knows exactly how many congregations model themselves on the Franciscans and Dominicans alone.

Perhaps you have not known enough Franciscans and Dominicans or read enough of our writings or experienced our ministry. There are always going to be those men and women in any religious family who will express an opinion on any issue, as long as it is permissible to express that opinion.

Nonetheless, one must keep in mind that these are opinions and that those who are expressing it are good people who are looking at an issue from another perspective. There are other situations or teachings in which a different opinion in not allowed. You will find that these orders have always remained faithful to those mandates. When told that they may not hold another opinion on a subject, they have not had one.

The example you gave above is a very good one. The teaching of the Church is does not say that homosexual attraction is a sin. It says that homosexual acts are a sin. That teaching has been handed down to us without attributing to it any infallible character. It rests on the ordinary magisterium. Therefore, it is permissible for any Catholic to wonder or hypothesize on the teaching. That is not the same as telling people to commit a sexual act that is a sin.

I’ll give you another example. I’m not sure how it works among the Dominicans. Among the Franciscans, the words of St. Francis are not up for opionions. His teachings, rules and admonitions must be obeyed and there is no room for a disseting thought or opinion under penalty of hell. Only with the Holy Father’s permission can the Franciscan family ammend any of Francis’ teachings or interpret them. Therefore, it does not happen. The entire Franciscan family is bound by a solemn vow of obedience to him and above him, to the pope. When there is a need for an interpretation or an ammendmant to fit a particular circumstance, the matter is written and explained. Then it is submitted to the Holy See via a General Chapter of the Order. The Pope then approves or rejects the proposed interpretation. As you can see, this is a lot of orthodoxy. I know for a fact that the same is true of the Benedictines and Jesuits.

The Dominicans are in a different situation, because Dominic did not write a rule. They follow the rule of St. Augustine. I’m uncertain how much they are bound to that rule and when they can deviate (in the good sense) from Augustine’s rule.

In any case, this kind of obedience and fideity to the founder and to the Church is always there. When the Church says that something is not up for debate, it is not, even among these orders. Such is the case with abortion and the dogmas of the faith.

However, not everything is an infallible teaching or a dogma. Some points are teachings of the ordinary magisterium that allow for discussion. What they do not allow is for violation. You cannot violate what the ordinary magisterium teaches. Any member of these orders or any Catholic who promotes violating what the ordinary magisterium teaches places himelf in a very precarious position. If that person belongs to one of these orders he commits a grave sin of disobedience, which the orders to uphold and for which they do consequence their members.

When in doubt, just ask if the person is promoting that others violate the teaching of the Church or if the person is merely presenting a hypothesis. Most of the time you will find that it is a hypothesis and most of the time hypotheses are allowed, except in those cases where the case is closed, such as dogma and certain moral issues: adultery, abortion, injustice, disobedience to the Holy Father, violation of the sacraments and others like this.

I hope this helps. If you would like, there are web sites on the Dominicans and other reigious families where you can read about their spirit and their life in the Church. You may be very impresed.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OFS