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jmcrae
Guest
Yeah, those little two-room apartments in the attic of the parish Church are really extravagant, with the IKEA bed, the little second-hand computer, and the ten year old carpeting.
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Teflon93
Guest
I bet the Pope could live high on the hog once the Protestants get around to returning all the stuff they stole from the Church during the Reformation.
He might even be able to afford his own private phone line, which Pope John Paul II famously lacked when Ronald Reagan suggested keeping in touch through regular phone chats.
He might even be able to afford his own private phone line, which Pope John Paul II famously lacked when Ronald Reagan suggested keeping in touch through regular phone chats.
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NonDenom
Guest
Most parsonages I’ve seen are worth allot more than the houses some of the members of the church are worth and you know that.
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Calvinator
Guest
While I greatly disagree w/ your church’s theology it does appear to me that your church and it’s various organizations do a tremendous amount of charitable work.Hi everyone. I am chatting with someone who claims that the Catholic Church can’t be true because the “Pope sits on a throne of gold while people starve.” What can I say to answer this accusation?
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Church_Militant
Guest
Yeah, right. I see so many priests & bishops living like Oral Roberts and his son, who was on the news this week with his own people publicly fronting him for the way the way he handles money. (A $62,000 Bahamas senior trip?!!!)
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DebChris
Guest
Calvinator–Thanks. As shown by your comment, disagreement and disrespect need not be synonomous.
Non-Denom–Nobody denies the Pope’s need for salvation, least of all the pope himself. He is indeed a man, elevated to the position of earthly leadership within the Church. He holds the keys handed to Peter by our Lord Jesus Christ.
The infallibility to which I presume you refer does not reflect on the man’s moral character. It is the Holy Spirit who maintains the Church’s Tradition throughout the centuries. Tradition (T) is not the same as traditions which are changable. Tradition (T) refers to the teachings as handed to us from the Apostles, as taught directly by Christ. The Church is comprised of sinful men who call on the Lord to guide us, again by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Non-Denom–Nobody denies the Pope’s need for salvation, least of all the pope himself. He is indeed a man, elevated to the position of earthly leadership within the Church. He holds the keys handed to Peter by our Lord Jesus Christ.
The infallibility to which I presume you refer does not reflect on the man’s moral character. It is the Holy Spirit who maintains the Church’s Tradition throughout the centuries. Tradition (T) is not the same as traditions which are changable. Tradition (T) refers to the teachings as handed to us from the Apostles, as taught directly by Christ. The Church is comprised of sinful men who call on the Lord to guide us, again by the power of the Holy Spirit.
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Calvinator
Guest
Thanks Deb.
BTW, this just occured to me. If your church sold the Vatican, lock, stock and barrel and let’s say they did it tomorrow. Let’s also say they donated all that money to the poor in Europe and kept nothing for themselves.
How much would that change things?
Also, in the long run, would it be a better approach than the ongoing charity work we see year in and year out? If the church completely sold everything it owns it would no longer be in much of a position to provide the aide it currently does, would it?
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Ignatius
Guest
Interesting, just this morning I was reading the Gospel of John -Hi everyone. I am chatting with someone who claims that the Catholic Church can’t be true because the “Pope sits on a throne of gold while people starve.” What can I say to answer this accusation?
John 12:3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of nard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.
4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, which should betray him,
5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?
6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.
I’d have to say the Church is closer to what Mary did here. You know the Church doesn’t exactly ignore to poor either. Very interesting.
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ralphinal
Guest
As someone pointed out, it would be a fleeting, short term solution to sell everything and give it all away. That would not fix the underlying reasons that they are starving, or poor for that matter.
I wish that I had the information, but about 10 years ago some economists ranked the wealth of the various denominations. The Catholic Church was given the first place, with an astrisk, because of one unique situation. The land can be priced, but a good amount of what we own, simple put, cannot be sold or even priced out. What is the Sistene Chaple worth? How about the art? The word priceless comes to mind. Who would buy it if they could? As another poster mentioned, it is better that everyone can enjoy these items anyway.
I wish that I had the information, but about 10 years ago some economists ranked the wealth of the various denominations. The Catholic Church was given the first place, with an astrisk, because of one unique situation. The land can be priced, but a good amount of what we own, simple put, cannot be sold or even priced out. What is the Sistene Chaple worth? How about the art? The word priceless comes to mind. Who would buy it if they could? As another poster mentioned, it is better that everyone can enjoy these items anyway.
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Teflon93
Guest
That doesn’t count—only the Catholic Church may be accused of greed, for Oral Roberts and the like it’s simply proper recompense for bringing the Gospel to the millions.Yeah, right. I see so many priests & bishops living like Oral Roberts and his son, who was on the news this week with his own people publicly fronting him for the way the way he handles money. (A $62,000 Bahamas senior trip?!!!)
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clmowry
Guest
Um…no I don’t know that. Two priest share one modest home that the Parish owns. And darn one of those pesky parishioners who owns a car dealership gave them a car too.
Your right, they should sell the house and car, live in a box and walk to the church.
By the way when will you be divesting yourself of all your earthly possessions and giving them to the poor?
Chuck
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tmac4
Guest
I think The Vatican actually costs the church money trying to preserve and protect these treasures (i.e. the artwork and the architecture). Yes many of these statues and paintings are probably priceless but then again they are not for sale and never will be.
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Teflon93
Guest
With one caveat—it’s not as though the Church makes money off of the Vatican. She relies on charitable contributions for the most part, which is why the sexual abuse scandal caused some properties to be sold due to the double whammy of decreased contributions to the Church and the fact that she doesn’t have cash onhand sufficient to cover multi-million dollar settlements due to charitable disbursement.
It was a bit different in the Middle Ages because the Church made significant amounts of money simply by letting people work fields on Church property (usually bequeathed it in wills) for a portion of the proceeds. The large proportion of desirable property owned by the Church was a major trigger of the Reformation in my opinion, as were abuses by priests and bishops who viewed Church property and funds as their own in certain cases.
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clmowry
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jmcrae
Guest
Catholic priests don’t live in “parsonages” - you are thinking of the Presbyterians, I think.
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NonDenom
Guest
I’m not saying that the Roman Catholic Church should sell everything in order to get right with God.
What I am saying is that ALL of us need to be good stewards of money. Queen of Apostles church here where I live just built a 2 million dollar fellowship hall and many of the building materials and decor is not necessary. I know they didn’t want to put up a shack, but they could have done it for far less and used the rest for ministry. Gold chairs and the like are not being good stewards of money,
I don’t care if it’s the vatican or the church where I attend.
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Teflon93
Guest
I’ll put the Catholic Church up against any non-Catholic community in terms of stewardship any day of the week. One gold chair in Rome versus late model Mercedes in every moderate-sized Protestant and non-denom pastor’s parking space? No comparison.
So why not give Rick Warren a call, NonDenom? You sound as if you’d be positively horrified by the Saddleback Church campus.
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NonDenom
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Teflon93
Guest
I’ve been to his church. Have you seen the campus? It’s on very pricey real estate in Lake Forest, CA, huge, brand new buildings, state-of-the-art presentation systems, etc.
10% of the Purpose-Driven Life proceeds is a LOT of money, my friend. He’s got a lot more personal wealth than the Pope does, and the Pope’s got one billion in his flock.
So take that log out of your eye.
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Stephen_C
Guest
Well I think he should sell all that property and such…and give it all to the poor…what do you all think?
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